RepubliCare.

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
With choice is the option to choose another...

I put my trust in large corporations every time I get in my car or get on a plane. There are two sides to every coin and I see corporate benefits to society just as I see corporate abuse to society. But I notice far better customer service in the private sector, especially considering recent experiences at DMV and with Obamacare registration. No corporation would survive with a website as bad our Colorado Health Exchange. Every deal I've ever done with private corps was a mutually consensual transaction, which I like.

I have mixed thoughts on Medicare, largely out of deep respect for our seniors and how long the program has been around. But with increasing life spans, it will need to be revised, along with social security (means testing and older eligibility). Then again, I'm someone that believes we need to live within some practical level of debt obligations to be a strong country.

Regarding universal healthcare, the level of trust needed for me to buy into it isn't there. I've lost my doctors multiple times, lost my private plan, and never saved a dime with Obamacare. No thanks on doubling down until they earn my trust back, which probably won't happen. Lucky for you it isn't up to me! Keep promoting it if you believe in it and maybe you'll win me over. :bigjoint::peace:
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I understand people's concerns, but I feel that they are unfounded for the most part. The hospitals and doctors that you deal with should comprise the majority of your health care experience. If that is left unchanged, then I don't see why people wouldn't want to move to a system that could save them up to 50%.

I agree that ACA website was a gong show, but keep in mind that if there were a single payer system their would be no type of exchange to deal with. It would essentially be Medicare for everyone.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Blatantly false.

How many times do you need to be told you can only get Medicaid under certain circumstances?

You are remembering a time that is no longer..like since the 1990s.
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Yeah, the circumstances are you have to be poor...

My dad was on Medicaid, do you have first hand experience?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I understand people's concerns, but I feel that they are unfounded for the most part. The hospitals and doctors that you deal with should comprise the majority of your health care experience. If that is left unchanged, then I don't see why people wouldn't want to move to a system that could save them up to 50%.

I agree that ACA website was a gong show, but keep in mind that if there were a single payer system their would be no type of exchange to deal with. It would essentially be Medicare for everyone.
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I don't understand. Did somebody just introduce a bill to authorize universal healthcare coverage? I thought we were just about to lose the gains made in the Obama administration like coverage for 12 million people who had been uninsured previous to that. As well as about to see the introduction of a bill to privatize medicare.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I understand people's concerns, but I feel that they are unfounded for the most part. The hospitals and doctors that you deal with should comprise the majority of your health care experience. If that is left unchanged, then I don't see why people wouldn't want to move to a system that could save them up to 50%.

I agree that ACA website was a gong show, but keep in mind that if there were a single payer system their would be no type of exchange to deal with. It would essentially be Medicare for everyone.
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I hear ya, but it concerns me how many doctors are opting out of Medicare due to shitty reimbursement. So on one hand I complain about the cost of the program and on the other I bitch doctors aren't getting paid enough, doesn't even make sense in my own head how I really feel about it! :bigjoint: But people have paid into it for a long time and we have to try and honor the promise.

As for saving 50% by taking out the insurance companies, I don't really buy it. Take a look at the difference in earnings here:


taken from:https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-profit-margins-in-the-healthcare-industry

Seems like big pharma is the #1 culprit and a great place to start controlling costs. I don't understand why we can't purchase from Canada for example, wasn't this the Sanders proposal just buried by repubs? I don't know the details of it but from what I heard it made sense. Things are so bad for consumers I don't know that I would have a problem with much of the sector being put under rate of return restrictions like we do to certain utilities.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Yeah, the circumstances are you have to be poor...

My dad was on Medicaid, do you have first hand experience?
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Depends on the state. Idaho, for instance doesn't allow low income adults below the age of 65 to qualify. In Oregon, enrollment of adults under the age of 65 is limited by funds available. Some able bodied working age people simply have to wait and there is a lottery each year.

Your dad raised a son who would have denied him government-funded health care according to what you've said here.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Depends on the state. Idaho, for instance doesn't allow low income adults below the age of 65 to qualify. In Oregon, enrollment of adults under the age of 65 is limited by funds available. Some able bodied working age people simply have to wait and there is a lottery each year.

Your dad raised a son who would have denied him government-funded health care according to what you've said here.
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I have never advocated against a medicaid type program. society does need certain safety nets.

Now, whether the federal government needs to run the program is up for debate. I think the states should control it.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
As for saving 50% by taking out the insurance companies, I don't really buy it.
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Well, it's not quite as simple as that. In addition to insurance companies being removed from the equation, the federal govt now has the ability to negotiate more reasonable pricing with hospitals and doctors. If say a hospital currently charges $2,000 for a procedure, the govt can negotiate that down to say $1,200. This works for both parties as it saves the system money, but it also guarantees that the hospitals and doctors get paid for every procedure. What hospitals lose in their price points, they make up for in the fact that they no longer have to deal with people not being able to afford to pay their bills or filing bankruptcy.

Another savings comes in the form of a healthier populace. There would no longer be financial barriers for folks to go see a doctor with copays and deductibles being eliminated. People that otherwise couldn't afford a $100 copay to go for a routine physical, will now take advantage of the cost free visit. This allows doctors to catch diseases like cancer much earlier which obviously saves a ton of money.

So, between the removal of insurance companies, lower negotiated prices for services, and a healthier citizenry, huge savings can be achieved. If you look at Canada vs America as an example, Canada spends roughly $3,600 per capita per year, whereas we spend roughly $6,700 per capita per year. Canadians have a longer life expectancy, a lower infant mortality rate, and the vast majority of Canadians like their health care.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
tell that to germany.
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I'll be honest. I don't know much about German health care.

I'm not saying not to have insurance.

I'm all for universal health care. Our system is too bloated and corrupt.

We might be able to get something like ACA to work. It will take a lot of work.

For example, my wife needs insulin. She was on a cheap version that's been out for years. Thirty bucks without insurance.

We move and get a new Dr. The first visit they switch her to a new insulin that because its in a pen form it is $700 for one and $400 for the other. It didn't work as well and actually caused some kidney issues. She switched back.

We asked the Dr to leave it as it was because it was working. No refills left and the Dr says he wants to switch her.

I wonder why. It had to be kick backs or something. Even if it wasn't kick backs it still doesn't make a lot of sense.

So instead of $60 month it was $1100. You multiply that by thousands of patients it adds up.

Got to have the newest meds out. I'm not saying that all new meds are bad either.

Ethically do you think the Dr, insurance and everyone else involved should take the cost of medications into consideration?

Like I said I'm for universal health care but if things like what I described keep happening it will break the system.


Maybe like fog said. 70% be free universal and the rest private.

I just know a lot of people bash a setup like Canada but it works.

I'm not saying repeal ACA. It needs more work though.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I'll be honest. I don't know much about German health care.
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they have private insurers that are mandated by law to be non-profit. they compete fiercely for customers because even though there is no profit motive, no one wants to go out of business.

their government negotiates reimbursement rates for procedures annually as well as what they pay for prescription drugs/

but we can't have this because dipshits like bugeye think that having government be so involved with healthcare would be disastrous rather than money-saving.

don't be like bugeye the moron.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
I have never advocated against a medicaid type program. society does need certain safety nets.

Now, whether the federal government needs to run the program is up for debate. I think the states should control it.
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"I have never advocated against a medicaid type program."
sure you have. You just recently complained about how too many people were being helped for medical care by the govt.

So you put an otherworldly qualifier on it "I think the states should control it.". News flash: when your father needed medicaid, most of the money came from federal tax dollars. Not whatever desolate place that tolerated your childhood.

Your outrage is that the world wasn't what you want it to be.

US Society, through medicaid took care of your father because you, he, his wife or his extended family couldn't. That's OK. It's what this country is all about. Just don't fuck up the same benefit your father received for the next ones who need it. Is that so hard for you to understand?
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I'll be honest. I don't know much about German health care.

I'm not saying not to have insurance.

I'm all for universal health care. Our system is too bloated and corrupt.

We might be able to get something like ACA to work. It will take a lot of work.

For example, my wife needs insulin. She was on a cheap version that's been out for years. Thirty bucks without insurance.

We move and get a new Dr. The first visit they switch her to a new insulin that because its in a pen form it is $700 for one and $400 for the other. It didn't work as well and actually caused some kidney issues. She switched back.

We asked the Dr to leave it as it was because it was working. No refills left and the Dr says he wants to switch her.

I wonder why. It had to be kick backs or something. Even if it wasn't kick backs it still doesn't make a lot of sense.

So instead of $60 month it was $1100. You multiply that by thousands of patients it adds up.

Got to have the newest meds out. I'm not saying that all new meds are bad either.

Ethically do you think the Dr, insurance and everyone else involved should take the cost of medications into consideration?

Like I said I'm for universal health care but if things like what I described keep happening it will break the system.


Maybe like fog said. 70% be free universal and the rest private.

I just know a lot of people bash a setup like Canada but it works.

I'm not saying repeal ACA. It needs more work though.
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Thank goodness I have Kaiser Medical coverage.......my wife's insulin is $15 per month, even the new insulin....:shock:
 
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