Tanman402
Well-Known Member
that was in a south park episode
Should the Ten Commandments and Prayer Returned to Public Schools?
- Thread starter Prophecy
- Start date
Seamaiden
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, Stoney, Hester, you know I like you both. But neither one of you has to read his threads or his responses. This is not at all like him coming through your front yard. You don't own this place, you have no claim to it other than logging into your account. There is an ignore feature. If he bothers you that much, maybe you might want to consider using it. It's what I do when I'm fed up with certain people, I just avoid, and I am able to make the choice to respond or not. That is all in my hands. I use my freedom of choice.
Why can't he have the religion that inspires him and directs him? That is FINE with me if he lives as a good person. His doctrine prescribes that he evangelize and convert so that souls may be saved. What if I criticized you, Stoney, for your Pagan practices? Would I have any business doing so? Of course not, I would be out of line. Wouldn't I?
I don't read his links (so the book thing is new to me), I don't even read many of his posts because I know that there will never be agreement. But, even in the face of disagreement, can there not be respectful discussion? And if there cannot be discussion, can there not at least be enough respect to let it alone? If you don't respond, his threads die.
Zen has as much business posting here, posting his opinions, as any of us. It's out of line to tell him to mind his own business when you've posted something publicly.
You're both displaying the type of intolerance many might accuse Christians of. Actually, a lot of people here are. Yet you consider yourselves to be more progressive because you get high? How exactly does that work?
If Prophecy were to be banned for not ever posting anything cannabis-related, then we'll have to start calling for the bannings of at least a few others. And suddenly, you become "them". If you're better than that, show it by your actions.
I've done this many, many times before, and few, if any, people ever actually take me up on the suggestion. But, to get a really different perspective on religion, the real purpose and utility of religion, I must suggest reading Joseph Campbell. The Power of Myth would be my best suggestion, though to really get a grasp of his ideas you'd need to read more of his work (in my opinion). I think it's helped me to be a lot more open-minded, and it's definitely helped me to see more similarities than differences among us.
Why can't he have the religion that inspires him and directs him? That is FINE with me if he lives as a good person. His doctrine prescribes that he evangelize and convert so that souls may be saved. What if I criticized you, Stoney, for your Pagan practices? Would I have any business doing so? Of course not, I would be out of line. Wouldn't I?
I don't read his links (so the book thing is new to me), I don't even read many of his posts because I know that there will never be agreement. But, even in the face of disagreement, can there not be respectful discussion? And if there cannot be discussion, can there not at least be enough respect to let it alone? If you don't respond, his threads die.
Zen has as much business posting here, posting his opinions, as any of us. It's out of line to tell him to mind his own business when you've posted something publicly.
You're both displaying the type of intolerance many might accuse Christians of. Actually, a lot of people here are. Yet you consider yourselves to be more progressive because you get high? How exactly does that work?
If Prophecy were to be banned for not ever posting anything cannabis-related, then we'll have to start calling for the bannings of at least a few others. And suddenly, you become "them". If you're better than that, show it by your actions.
I've done this many, many times before, and few, if any, people ever actually take me up on the suggestion. But, to get a really different perspective on religion, the real purpose and utility of religion, I must suggest reading Joseph Campbell. The Power of Myth would be my best suggestion, though to really get a grasp of his ideas you'd need to read more of his work (in my opinion). I think it's helped me to be a lot more open-minded, and it's definitely helped me to see more similarities than differences among us.
Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
Sea, it's not that I think I am better.It's that he does.Period.I don't go preaching at people in all of my threads,nor do I try to profit from said preaching.You're right, I could ignore him, and I never said he should be banned.I never claimed to have any claim to this place.But as you said, if you post your ideas in a public forum, prepare to have them challenged.It may sound like I'm being mean, and I probably could be nicer about it, but I'm trying to explain to him, that he cannot apply his rules to everyone.I have my beliefs, but they are not for everyone,and they are not set in stone, because I am a person, and my ideas evolve and change.I'm tired of these arguments being all one sided.A person will preach christian beliefs to you, and if you rebutt, you're not being intolerant.But that has been a popular tactic for years.If you don't agree, then you are evil.Or unpatriotic.Or going to hell.By disagreeing with him,I'm helping him in my fashion, by getting him to at least admit there is more than one path.And that was and is my intention.Some folks have to be ragged at to see it.Could my beliefs be wrong?Certainly.Because I'm a human being,and we make a lot of errors.But I don't try to place myself above anyone.I try to get them to see themselves a little.If that didn't come across, then I guess I should have worded my post better.And the reason I told zen to mind his business is because he said I go off on antireligious rants and noone challenges me.Untrue.Anytime I get in political or religious discussions, I'm challenged.It's half the fun.I could, however, have been nicer in the way I said it.I apologize to Zen for snapping at him.
crazy-mental
Well-Known Member
as you can see from the results off the poll.
i dont think it would be a good idea.
i thought we were moving away from all that shit.
misshestermoffitt
New Member
I never said he should be banned, I said it is rude to come onto a pot forum and try to shove god down peoples throats. There are at least 10 churches within 2 miles of me, if I wanted to be godly I could manage on my own.
It's hypocritical for these religious types to stand on their soap box and try to convince me that I'm going to hell for not giving 10% of my income to a child molesting priest.
If he wants to come here and publicly post his views I have just as much right to mock those views if I see fit. I have around 7 or 8 bibles in this house. I was raised Methodist. It didn't work for me. I can't believe the bible has anymore truth to it than the Willy Wonka chocolate factory.
The difference between god types and pagans is that god types just can't sleep at night unless everyone believes in the same lie they believe in. Pagans feel that others have a right to believe as they choose and don't need to waste the energy trying to "convert" everyone.
Pagans have never been know for killing people with opposing views, the first pagan rule to be followed before any other is "harm ye none do that ye will". Christians however are widely known for killing people who don't believe in their myth. (yet thou shalt not kill)
It is dangerous for the rest of the world to allow them to brainwash others. Using medical marijuana can be considered witchcraft or sorcery with is considered heresy and then they kill you. Just trying to do my part to keep them honest and allow the rest of us our own views without fear of religious execution.
It's hypocritical for these religious types to stand on their soap box and try to convince me that I'm going to hell for not giving 10% of my income to a child molesting priest.
If he wants to come here and publicly post his views I have just as much right to mock those views if I see fit. I have around 7 or 8 bibles in this house. I was raised Methodist. It didn't work for me. I can't believe the bible has anymore truth to it than the Willy Wonka chocolate factory.
The difference between god types and pagans is that god types just can't sleep at night unless everyone believes in the same lie they believe in. Pagans feel that others have a right to believe as they choose and don't need to waste the energy trying to "convert" everyone.
Pagans have never been know for killing people with opposing views, the first pagan rule to be followed before any other is "harm ye none do that ye will". Christians however are widely known for killing people who don't believe in their myth. (yet thou shalt not kill)
It is dangerous for the rest of the world to allow them to brainwash others. Using medical marijuana can be considered witchcraft or sorcery with is considered heresy and then they kill you. Just trying to do my part to keep them honest and allow the rest of us our own views without fear of religious execution.
cleatis
Well-Known Member
Cause he was throwing a hissy fit over the actions of the creatures he made; when he knew damn good and well when he made them that they would be a bunch of fuck ups that they turned out to be.
The Jews weren't the only ones to come up with the ten commandments, aside of the first three, just about every society that has ever been and will ever be will have many of these basic ideals which leads me to your next question.:
What do you think civilization have laws?
Ok imagine you have your little society and there are no provisions against theft. Eventually, fewer and fewer people will be productive because they can steal it, and the others aren't going to want to work because someone is just going to rip them off. It's really cut and dry, we don't need some god to tell us not to steal, we can figure it out on our own in about a month.
Being a married man, I will say that one woman is damn sure enough, so I don't need any more. If I had all the food I could want at my beckon call I'd probably feed that little skeleton looking african kid that the 86% christian US puts in the back of their mind because it isn't comfortable and it isn't their problem
Now this is almost a good question, I can agree that we need more self dicipline (among a plethora of other things) to truely be free, but judging by the track record of religion I don't think religion is the pure path to dicipline as religion has been the catylist of more war and death than we can fathom
humans aren't perfect enough, if we want to overcome a lot of our problems we need to get over ourselvesfirst, get off our ego trip and a lot will follow from there.
cleatis
Well-Known Member
To quote Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. This doesn't mean that religious people are crazy, it means that faith isn't the end all answer. There is absolutely no possible way that sending moses into a town to murder every man woman and child, save the virgins and sell them like cattle can be justified through faith, reason or anything else. And if all I need is more faith to accept these things as somehow reasonable and not vengful murderous acts, then I think more faith isn't the answer.
Seamaiden
Well-Known Member
I think my own perspective is different because both my parents (raised VERY Catholic) rejected the church. However, I do want to say this, and then I'm going to do my best to let it go. Of all the sins one can make, of all the sins one can be criticized for, evangelizing is one I am able to let go and forgive. As long as I'm able to make my own choices, I can forgive it. And, so far, I've been able to make my own choices.
We have not one bible in this house, though I do have some crucifixes passed down to me, and some saint pins and.. some other Catholic stuff my grandmother gave me. She maintains the little altar that my great-grandmother had set up in the old house on the island.
I was going to put up a picture of the altar (honestly, I think it's beautiful), but I don't have those pix on this machine.
We have not one bible in this house, though I do have some crucifixes passed down to me, and some saint pins and.. some other Catholic stuff my grandmother gave me. She maintains the little altar that my great-grandmother had set up in the old house on the island.
I was going to put up a picture of the altar (honestly, I think it's beautiful), but I don't have those pix on this machine.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
Its all good, Stoney.
I am Christian but I fight with own people as well, alot. One thing I truly despise are self-righteous vigilantes who have the audacity to claim you are going to hell if you do this or that. No one can judge, we all have sinned. People who push this onto others is not helping them reach to God, it only pushes them away. For example, I knew this not particularly religious girl and she loved her grandfather very dearly and was devastated when he passed away. One of these "holier than thou" kids approached her and asked if her grandfather believed in Jesus, she didn't believe so..so then promptly stated "oh, then hes in hell". I overheard this and was infuriated it, I let that kid have it however I'm not sure if she could ever be christian now that this follower had such disrespect.
The case is, its hard not to judge a faith by its followers, but many of them are not doing the right thing and that sets the bad example. Priests who touch kids, vigilante crusaders, they all paint a very noble thing bad. I, in fact, am very anti-catholic. I don't believe all their little rituals and rites are necessary, and a MAN, crowned "Pope" has no special power or is favored in any way. That is man using God to gain power, that is human nature at its core. People will use anything, and everything, to gain power over others, its very shameful. All these questions and doubts I have seen asked on this forum, are not new, they have been asked again and again throughout time and they are addressed in the Bible. All you have to do is look..
Prophecy I believe is trying to do the right thing. I believe its in response to all the persecution and ridicule seen recently toward Christianity, especially on these forums and people are pushing back. I see many more anti-God threads than pro-God, and I can understand the frustration. It would be the same if it were opposite.
I am Christian but I fight with own people as well, alot. One thing I truly despise are self-righteous vigilantes who have the audacity to claim you are going to hell if you do this or that. No one can judge, we all have sinned. People who push this onto others is not helping them reach to God, it only pushes them away. For example, I knew this not particularly religious girl and she loved her grandfather very dearly and was devastated when he passed away. One of these "holier than thou" kids approached her and asked if her grandfather believed in Jesus, she didn't believe so..so then promptly stated "oh, then hes in hell". I overheard this and was infuriated it, I let that kid have it however I'm not sure if she could ever be christian now that this follower had such disrespect.
The case is, its hard not to judge a faith by its followers, but many of them are not doing the right thing and that sets the bad example. Priests who touch kids, vigilante crusaders, they all paint a very noble thing bad. I, in fact, am very anti-catholic. I don't believe all their little rituals and rites are necessary, and a MAN, crowned "Pope" has no special power or is favored in any way. That is man using God to gain power, that is human nature at its core. People will use anything, and everything, to gain power over others, its very shameful. All these questions and doubts I have seen asked on this forum, are not new, they have been asked again and again throughout time and they are addressed in the Bible. All you have to do is look..
Prophecy I believe is trying to do the right thing. I believe its in response to all the persecution and ridicule seen recently toward Christianity, especially on these forums and people are pushing back. I see many more anti-God threads than pro-God, and I can understand the frustration. It would be the same if it were opposite.
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
I don't think the 10 commandments and prayer should be mandatory in school- but some people seem to be misinformed about what the separation of church and state intentions were by the founders- it's wasn't that religion should be banned from public, but that the state could not interfere with religious things. I think that this should be up to the individual school itself- if the community would like some time set aside in the school day for some type of prayer or short religious class so be it, it's not the state's business to interfere in that- of course those that wish to opt out would no be forced to attend. (let me remind you that they fund the school with their tax dollars for their children, it should be their choice)
I would however like to see some classes in public school that teach morals, etiquette, and for the schools to stop being so biased in the theories they present to these impressionable minds (evolution is a theory, unprovable I might add- just as creationism is a theory, likewise unprovable- both should be presented to students) The lack of teaching children conflicting theories leads to intolerance...
I would however like to see some classes in public school that teach morals, etiquette, and for the schools to stop being so biased in the theories they present to these impressionable minds (evolution is a theory, unprovable I might add- just as creationism is a theory, likewise unprovable- both should be presented to students) The lack of teaching children conflicting theories leads to intolerance...
misshestermoffitt
New Member
I agree with that morals and etiquette class. Seems like young people and kids can be so rude these days, not all of them but a lot of them. That class should include "when and where your cell phone is appropriate, with a side class, Texting, it shouldn't be done 24/7"
The school district where I live here in small town amercia this year decided that kids with head lice will no longer be pulled out of class and sent home. Now they are staying in class to spread the problem. Damn I'm glad my kids are grown, that is going to be an epidemic come coat and hat season
The school district where I live here in small town amercia this year decided that kids with head lice will no longer be pulled out of class and sent home. Now they are staying in class to spread the problem. Damn I'm glad my kids are grown, that is going to be an epidemic come coat and hat season
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
This is what I mean by intolerance.. lol.. creationism in itself does not mean "the genesis story".. there's different creationism theories, many of which accept the geological findings and such.. just as there are many evolution theories... both evolution and creationism can neither be proven by 'science'..
misshestermoffitt
New Member
The only problem with that is some people take their religion really, really seriously and consider it a sin for their kids to hear other ideas or theories. I would be afraid of actual violence when trying to teach all different religious ideas.
Maybe making them elective high school classes or something like that, where kids can choose if they want to take them. Kids should be open to all ideas so they can form their own opinions. I hate the idea that in a lot of families religion is pretty much inhereted.
Maybe making them elective high school classes or something like that, where kids can choose if they want to take them. Kids should be open to all ideas so they can form their own opinions. I hate the idea that in a lot of families religion is pretty much inhereted.
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
"Such beliefs include young Earth creationism, proponents of which believe that the days in Genesis Chapter 1 are 24 hours in length, while Old Earth creationism accepts geological findings and other methods of dating the earth and believes that these findings do not contradict the Genesis account, but reject evolution. The term theistic evolution has been coined to refer to beliefs in creation which are more compatible with the scientific view of evolution and the age of the Earth. Alternately, there are other religious people who support creation, but in terms of allegorical interpretations of Genesis."
Right on wiki.. but this is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about.. providing only certain theories and one side of the argument to the students induces intolerance..I'm not saying creationism should be mandatory, but there should be a broader spectrum of knowledge being passed on, and the parents should at least have a say in what is taught to their children..
Right on wiki.. but this is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about.. providing only certain theories and one side of the argument to the students induces intolerance..I'm not saying creationism should be mandatory, but there should be a broader spectrum of knowledge being passed on, and the parents should at least have a say in what is taught to their children..
HotNSexyMILF
Well-Known Member
And those same people who get offended by other opinions are already enraged by their children being taught a 'godless evolution' theory.. I said before they could opt out, if they didn't have an option to opt out that would infringe their rights...
LOL.. what I don't get is why I'm being so criticized for saying that parent's should have a say in what their children are taught in a public school.. lol.. It's very easy to accept evolution and creationism at the same time- why is it such a stretch to think one being started the chain of events? lol..
Though evolution in itself as a science is lacking critical things.. yes the theory makes sense, but where's all the skeletons of the humans between the ape and human phase??
God, I knew I stayed away from this thread for a reason..