The French Cannoli` Hash Thread
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Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Have any of you smoke unpressed resin glands older than a few months??? Not yet seen before even the best loose smell and taste around 6 months
Have any of you smoke Hashish a few year old??? The oldest Charas I smoked was 7 or 8 years old, oldest Hash was with my Afghanis friends stash and it was 3 years old if I remember well.
I mentioned earlier that you do not press freshly harvested resin glands traditionally so lab test would have to dig deeper than that.
We really need to test a lot, as an example and for a start what the difference between fresh, dry and cure trims because that is the first step and it has never been done.
I will be able to do that with the Pinot Noir and MushMouth is planning to do the same on his side.
Have any of you smoke Hashish a few year old??? The oldest Charas I smoked was 7 or 8 years old, oldest Hash was with my Afghanis friends stash and it was 3 years old if I remember well.
I mentioned earlier that you do not press freshly harvested resin glands traditionally so lab test would have to dig deeper than that.
We really need to test a lot, as an example and for a start what the difference between fresh, dry and cure trims because that is the first step and it has never been done.
I will be able to do that with the Pinot Noir and MushMouth is planning to do the same on his side.
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
The heads don't contain any moisture once the moisture leaves terpenes go with it, as I said earlier because of this it needs to be kept below 75 degrees. Traditional hash doesn't have the same flavors its always going to be spicier and well taste hashy, just my my opinion...I make shatter because pure thc is a solid at room temp or slightly chilled all the terpines remain trapped until it is warmed and becomes a liquid it also is less reactive to light and o2. In my personal opinion that gives the best flavor while being pure cannabinoids and terpines, thc itself being a terpine, the only way to extract all terpines/cannabinoids and with the least plant matter/ impurities. Pressed hash inherently provides a more sedative high, while I grow landrace sativas. So I'm not knocking your method its just not for me. Thc is clear the darker and more it degrades it turns gold then amber then brown. I've never seen traditional hash not look severely degraded.
Have you tried pressing with more pressure or without heat..how does that affect the hash. I think maybe pressing without the heat might help preserve it. But I've never done any experimenting with traditional hash methods
But the pressing itself has a lot to do with the smoothness
I have seen lab testing of cured and uncured buds, they get mire potent with the cure, thca decarbs at like a 70% ratio to thc. So lab testing looking at thc percentages will be higher but as I said before your lighter decarbs as well, doing it twice is simply degrading, so undecarbed bud with lower thc percentages but higher thca and thc percentages will give more thc when lit..
Have you tried pressing with more pressure or without heat..how does that affect the hash. I think maybe pressing without the heat might help preserve it. But I've never done any experimenting with traditional hash methods
But the pressing itself has a lot to do with the smoothness
I have seen lab testing of cured and uncured buds, they get mire potent with the cure, thca decarbs at like a 70% ratio to thc. So lab testing looking at thc percentages will be higher but as I said before your lighter decarbs as well, doing it twice is simply degrading, so undecarbed bud with lower thc percentages but higher thca and thc percentages will give more thc when lit..
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Here's something else to think about.
RESULTS: All Quantisal OF cannabinoid concentrations were stable for 1 week at 4 °C. After 4 weeks at 4 °C, as well as 4 and 24 weeks at -20 °C, THC was stable in 90%, 80%, and 80% and THCCOOH in 89%, 40%, and 50% of Quantisal samples, respectively. Cannabinoids in expectorated OF were less stable than in Quantisal samples when refrigerated or frozen. After 4 weeks at 4 and -20 °C, CBD and CBN were stable in 33%-100% of Quantisal and expectorated samples; by 24 weeks at -20 °C, CBD and CBN were stable in ≤ 44%.
Suggesting decarbed hash has a longer shelf life. And the others were pretty varied
The results highlighted a steady decay of Δ 9 –THC over the entire storage period up to a very low content. Moreover, the degradation of Δ 9 –THC in the samples exposed to light at22°C is more pronounced than in the samples stored in the darkness at 4°C. Thus,in the case of samples from seizure R1 stored in the darkness at4°C,25.22%of Δ 9 –THC (fig.4a)was lost in the first year with an average loss of 6.30%every tree months,25.14%in the second year with anaveragelossof6.29,24.91%in the third year with an averagelossof6.23and20.49%in the fourth year
Finally,after four years,the samples stored in the darkness at 4°C lost 95.77%of Δ 9 –THC
RESULTS: All Quantisal OF cannabinoid concentrations were stable for 1 week at 4 °C. After 4 weeks at 4 °C, as well as 4 and 24 weeks at -20 °C, THC was stable in 90%, 80%, and 80% and THCCOOH in 89%, 40%, and 50% of Quantisal samples, respectively. Cannabinoids in expectorated OF were less stable than in Quantisal samples when refrigerated or frozen. After 4 weeks at 4 and -20 °C, CBD and CBN were stable in 33%-100% of Quantisal and expectorated samples; by 24 weeks at -20 °C, CBD and CBN were stable in ≤ 44%.
Suggesting decarbed hash has a longer shelf life. And the others were pretty varied
The results highlighted a steady decay of Δ 9 –THC over the entire storage period up to a very low content. Moreover, the degradation of Δ 9 –THC in the samples exposed to light at22°C is more pronounced than in the samples stored in the darkness at 4°C. Thus,in the case of samples from seizure R1 stored in the darkness at4°C,25.22%of Δ 9 –THC (fig.4a)was lost in the first year with an average loss of 6.30%every tree months,25.14%in the second year with anaveragelossof6.29,24.91%in the third year with an averagelossof6.23and20.49%in the fourth year
Finally,after four years,the samples stored in the darkness at 4°C lost 95.77%of Δ 9 –THC
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Man you are giving some very interesting data here. Does it mens what I think: Freezing is not as good as many think to say the least.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
The flavors of Hash around the world varies from country to country, unique to the country with variations due mainly to the place of origin in the country and the quality.
I am working in a new dimension here where each strains is unique and nothing like the hashish I smoked in my youth. If your hash does not smell and taste better than the best of the cured flowers you worked with, the process was not done properly.
I have yet to meet a BHO artist that will deliver the terpenes I get in my hash especially if we start from fresh trims. An interesting fact for you, I am also a Sativa lover and Charas (fresh hand rubbed trichomes) is very Sativa isn in its high and a main reason for me to work with fresh trims. Even the Dankest Indica will be different at that level when working with ice water and fresh trims. Another testing that could be fascinating.
I would love to smoke you out so that we could talk terpenes while our taste buds are working full time
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Do you decarb your shatter by the way?
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Sorry I edited a whole bunch... but when smoking no I do not decarb,
To conclude it would seem decarbed thc is far more stable and cbn seems to be produced as result of a chemical reaction, as it increased at nearly equal rates despite the environmental variability also suggesting thc degraded into other cannabinoids..though as shown the stability when chilled still isn't great. It appears light is what's degrading thc and heat is the biggest factor in flavor and volatility...and due to the properties it doesn't allow light to pass through protecting inside cannabinoids...added a little bit
To conclude it would seem decarbed thc is far more stable and cbn seems to be produced as result of a chemical reaction, as it increased at nearly equal rates despite the environmental variability also suggesting thc degraded into other cannabinoids..though as shown the stability when chilled still isn't great. It appears light is what's degrading thc and heat is the biggest factor in flavor and volatility...and due to the properties it doesn't allow light to pass through protecting inside cannabinoids...added a little bit
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Well what do ya wanna know? I could pump this thread with seemingly useless knowledge but I'm not sure frenchy would approve
(Edit) no answer and I'm bored so figured I would throw out 240 days seems to be optimum cure length.. for potency at least, that's when thca is finished decarbing and your now losing potency..
Another, towards the end of this link is a lot of info relating to biosynthesis thc production and environmental factors specifically how UV light increases thc production through cbda, also discussing other cannabinoids and some good info on the later stages in life cycle. I would read the whole second half..again in a pretty understandable format..
http://www.kindgreenbuds.com/marijuana-grow-guide/cannabis_maturation_harvesting.html
(Edit) no answer and I'm bored so figured I would throw out 240 days seems to be optimum cure length.. for potency at least, that's when thca is finished decarbing and your now losing potency..
Another, towards the end of this link is a lot of info relating to biosynthesis thc production and environmental factors specifically how UV light increases thc production through cbda, also discussing other cannabinoids and some good info on the later stages in life cycle. I would read the whole second half..again in a pretty understandable format..
http://www.kindgreenbuds.com/marijuana-grow-guide/cannabis_maturation_harvesting.html
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Well I suppose it depends on what your aiming for, maximum potency or flavor. A cure enhances aroma by altering terpenes, thc is a terpene. Like thc the other terpenes can be psychoactive/alter the high or change onset and metabolism ect also with a lot of medicinal properties....technically though there are more and more pshyshoactive cannabinoids in fresh bud. I personally make hash at harvest with fresh frozen material. I'm not telling you to do that though I use solvents...
I probly should have said day 240 is the cut off point in a cure for potency. After that its becoming less psychoactive even if more flavorful..though I've never been able to keep bud around that long lol
I probly should have said day 240 is the cut off point in a cure for potency. After that its becoming less psychoactive even if more flavorful..though I've never been able to keep bud around that long lol
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Seriously guys and girls, how many time do I have to say that this is YOUR site as much as mine?
I welcome all knowledge and when I ask for respect, it is not for me me per se (outside taking the time to read the thread and watch the vids so that we have a base to argue), and more to the diversity that makes this thread alive.
Anything on curing loose resin glands and/or pressed one is welcome. AlsoI believe that the resin as a mass will "digest" the broken trichomes membranes
When you say 240 days cure you are speaking of curing flowers, BHO, loose resin glands?
You are very welcome here, I have some study to do with what you gave me earlier and I am grateful for it. It may get boring for you since we are exclusively a Hashish/Charas, I guess IWE thread but no BHO, sorry. Hope you stick around in any case.
By the way you are only the second BHOer that I know who do not decarb extract, the first one was Matt Rize. I understand that you feel like the decarb happen on the nail but with a majority in the industry believing the opposite.......
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
THC is a cannabinoid not a terpene as far as I know. Have I been wrong all this time or what???
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
All cannabinoids are terpenes, not all terpenes are cannabinoids....I believe that number to be have been calculated after determining a sort of "half life" of thca. So they did the tests as resin slabs and in ethanol solution. Determining after 240 days all thca had been converted to thc..but don't confuse me with those whack bho makers 
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Do you remember the terpenes bounding to the cannabinoids, did not get CA articles but came across that:All cannabinoids are terpenes, not all terpenes are cannabinoids....I believe that number to be have been calculated after determining a sort of "half life" of thca. So they did the tests as resin slabs and in ethanol solution. Determining after 240 days all thca had been converted to thc..but don't confuse me with those whack bho makers
Many terpenoids vaporize near the same temperature as THC, which boils at 157°C (see Figures 1-2). Terpenoids are lipophilic and permeate lipid membranes. Many cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) after inhalation (Buchbaueret al. 1993; Nasel et al. 1994). [COLOR=rgb(13.700000%, 12.200000%, 12.500000%)]Meschler and Howlett (1999) discussed several mechanisms by which terpenoids modulate THC activity. For instance, terpenoids may bind to cannabinoid receptors.
I got this here, awesome paper:
[/COLOR]http://cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf
I got that also from that paper:
"Mechoulam and Gaoni (1967) defined “cannabinoids” as a group of C21terpenophenolic compounds uniquely produced by cannabis.
and that from the cancer institute:
Cannabinoids are a group of 21-carbon–containing terpenophenolic compounds produced uniquely byCannabis sativa and Cannabis indica species.[1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. Although delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is the primary psychoactive ingredient, other known compounds with biologic activity are cannabinol, cannabidiol (CBD), cannabichromene, cannabigerol, tetrahydrocannabivarin, and delta-8-THC. CBD, in particular, is thought to have significant analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity without the psychoactive effect (high) of delta-9-THC.
For me it looks like Cannabinoids are made of terpenophelic compounds but in that case they are not really terpenes, are they???
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
If you want a real study or something saying so I'll put up some more info in the morning. But terpenes that act on cb receptors make them cannabinoids, most are synergesic. Though when dry or in hash/oleoresin form they become volatile at about 75 degrees as quoted in a link I put up. Under a 100 realistically for lighter monoterpenes. Some like thc and sesquiterpenes stick around . I'll give real studies and better detailin the morning
Many of them have similar properties degrading in light, thc even in pretty good conditions degrades a lot after 1 year its reasonable to believe that similar terpines act the same
Many of them have similar properties degrading in light, thc even in pretty good conditions degrades a lot after 1 year its reasonable to believe that similar terpines act the same
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Oh yes I would like very much because I am quite confused for the moment but learning so a very happy Frenchy
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
So it is not as simple as "All cannabinoids are terpenes not all terpenes are cannabinoids as you can read below.
Chemistry and Analysis
of Phytocannabinoids
and Other Cannabis Constituents
Rudolf Brenneisen
1. THE CHEMISTRY OF PHYTOCANNABINOIDS AND NONCANNABINOID-TYPECONSTITUENTS
1.1. Phytocannabinoids
1.1.1. Introduction
The Cannabis plant and its products consist of an enormous variety of chemicals. Some of the 483 compounds identified are unique to Cannabis, for example, the more than 60 cannabinoids, where as the terpenes, with about 140 members formingthe most abundant class, are widespread in the plant kingdom. The term “cannabinoids” represents a group of C21 terpenophenolic compounds found until now uniquely in Cannabis sativa L. As a consequence of the development of synthetic cannabinoids (e.g., nabilone, HU-211 [dexanabinol, or ajulemic acid and the discovery of the chemically different endogenous cannabinoid receptor ligands (“endocannabinoids,” e.g., anandamide, 2-arachidonoylglycerol), the term“phytocannabinoids” was proposed for these particular Cannabis constituents.
Chemistry and Analysis
of Phytocannabinoids
and Other Cannabis Constituents
Rudolf Brenneisen
1. THE CHEMISTRY OF PHYTOCANNABINOIDS AND NONCANNABINOID-TYPECONSTITUENTS
1.1. Phytocannabinoids
1.1.1. Introduction
The Cannabis plant and its products consist of an enormous variety of chemicals. Some of the 483 compounds identified are unique to Cannabis, for example, the more than 60 cannabinoids, where as the terpenes, with about 140 members formingthe most abundant class, are widespread in the plant kingdom. The term “cannabinoids” represents a group of C21 terpenophenolic compounds found until now uniquely in Cannabis sativa L. As a consequence of the development of synthetic cannabinoids (e.g., nabilone, HU-211 [dexanabinol, or ajulemic acid and the discovery of the chemically different endogenous cannabinoid receptor ligands (“endocannabinoids,” e.g., anandamide, 2-arachidonoylglycerol), the term“phytocannabinoids” was proposed for these particular Cannabis constituents.