The French Cannoli` Hash Thread
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qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Studies on the metabolism of the Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol precursor Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid A (Delta9-THCA-A) in rat using LC-MS/MS, LC-QTOF MS and GC-MS techniques.
Jung J, etal. Show all
JMass Spectrom. 2009 Oct;44(10):1423-33. doi: 10.1002/jms.1624.
Institute of Forensic Medicine, ForensicToxicology, University Medical Centre Freiburg, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany.
Abstract In Cannabis sativa, Delta9-Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (Delta9-THCA-A) is the non-psychoactive precursor of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC). In fresh plant material, about 90% of the total Delta9-THC is available as Delta9-THCA-A. When heated (smoked or baked), Delta9-THCA-A is only partially converted to Delta9-THC and therefore, Delta9-THCA-A can be detected in serum and urine of cannabis consumers. The aim of the presented study was to identify the metabolites of Delta9-THCA-A and to examine particularly whether oral intake of Delta9-THCA-A leads to in vivo formation of Delta9-THC in a rat model. After oral application of pure Delta9-THCA-A to rats (15 mg/kg body mass), urine samples were collected and metabolites were isolated and identified by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry (LC-MS), liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) and high resolution LC-MS using time of flight-mass spectrometry (TOF-MS) for accurate mass measurement. For detection of Delta9-THC and its metabolites, urine extracts were analyzed by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS). The identified metabolites show that Delta9-THCA-A undergoes a hydroxylation in position 11 to 11-hydroxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (11-OH-Delta9-THCA-A), which is further oxidized via the intermediate aldehyde 11-oxo-Delta9-THCA-A to 11-nor-9-carboxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (Delta9-THCA-A-COOH). Glucuronides of the parent compound and both main metabolites were identified in the rat urine as well. Furthermore, Delta9-THCA-A undergoes hydroxylation in position 8 to 8-alpha- and 8-beta-hydroxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A, respectively, (8alpha-Hydroxy-Delta9-THCA-A and 8beta-Hydroxy-Delta9-THCA-A, respectively) followed by dehydration. Both monohydroxylated metabolites were further oxidized to their bishydroxylated forms. Several glucuronidation conjugates of these metabolites were identified. In vivo conversion of Delta9-THCA-A to Delta9-THC was not observed.
Decarboxylation does not naturally happen in the body, a psychoactive constituent was not found in the urine only the precursory acid.. saw the thread up thought I'd see what was new. So yes decarboxylation is required or binding to fats and sugars.....peace out y'all..
Jung J, etal. Show all
JMass Spectrom. 2009 Oct;44(10):1423-33. doi: 10.1002/jms.1624.
Institute of Forensic Medicine, ForensicToxicology, University Medical Centre Freiburg, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany.
Abstract In Cannabis sativa, Delta9-Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (Delta9-THCA-A) is the non-psychoactive precursor of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC). In fresh plant material, about 90% of the total Delta9-THC is available as Delta9-THCA-A. When heated (smoked or baked), Delta9-THCA-A is only partially converted to Delta9-THC and therefore, Delta9-THCA-A can be detected in serum and urine of cannabis consumers. The aim of the presented study was to identify the metabolites of Delta9-THCA-A and to examine particularly whether oral intake of Delta9-THCA-A leads to in vivo formation of Delta9-THC in a rat model. After oral application of pure Delta9-THCA-A to rats (15 mg/kg body mass), urine samples were collected and metabolites were isolated and identified by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry (LC-MS), liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) and high resolution LC-MS using time of flight-mass spectrometry (TOF-MS) for accurate mass measurement. For detection of Delta9-THC and its metabolites, urine extracts were analyzed by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS). The identified metabolites show that Delta9-THCA-A undergoes a hydroxylation in position 11 to 11-hydroxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (11-OH-Delta9-THCA-A), which is further oxidized via the intermediate aldehyde 11-oxo-Delta9-THCA-A to 11-nor-9-carboxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A (Delta9-THCA-A-COOH). Glucuronides of the parent compound and both main metabolites were identified in the rat urine as well. Furthermore, Delta9-THCA-A undergoes hydroxylation in position 8 to 8-alpha- and 8-beta-hydroxy-Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-A, respectively, (8alpha-Hydroxy-Delta9-THCA-A and 8beta-Hydroxy-Delta9-THCA-A, respectively) followed by dehydration. Both monohydroxylated metabolites were further oxidized to their bishydroxylated forms. Several glucuronidation conjugates of these metabolites were identified. In vivo conversion of Delta9-THCA-A to Delta9-THC was not observed.
Decarboxylation does not naturally happen in the body, a psychoactive constituent was not found in the urine only the precursory acid.. saw the thread up thought I'd see what was new. So yes decarboxylation is required or binding to fats and sugars.....peace out y'all..
Baywatcher
Well-Known Member
Here's some fun photos of hash transformation.
This started out as around 12 oz of fresh Pineapple Express high quality trim. I did two 15 minute washes, and caught everything between 45 and 120 microns (well, I caught the 25 too, but dumped it into the butter pot). I use Matt Rize's Ice Hash methodology to process, microplaning it after 24 hours in the fridge. The microplane cured for a couple of days in the fridge, periodically getting chopped up with a small offset spatula. Next, it was scraped into the jar you see in the first pic, and cured for two days in the jar. What you see in pic #1 is what it looked like after having been mixed every 8-10 hours while curing. As you can see from pic #2, it was still a mixture of trichomes and plant matter, not particularly well-blended.
Next, I process according to Frenchy's methodology. It was rolled out and folded a total of seven times using a heavy glass bottle filled with 170 degree water. Pic #3 shows what it looked like after the final pressing. As you can see from macro #4, it is *much* more uniform, and I can tell a marked difference in the flavor and smoothness of the hit from it compared to the unpressed hash.
Thanks Matt, thanks Frenchy.
This started out as around 12 oz of fresh Pineapple Express high quality trim. I did two 15 minute washes, and caught everything between 45 and 120 microns (well, I caught the 25 too, but dumped it into the butter pot). I use Matt Rize's Ice Hash methodology to process, microplaning it after 24 hours in the fridge. The microplane cured for a couple of days in the fridge, periodically getting chopped up with a small offset spatula. Next, it was scraped into the jar you see in the first pic, and cured for two days in the jar. What you see in pic #1 is what it looked like after having been mixed every 8-10 hours while curing. As you can see from pic #2, it was still a mixture of trichomes and plant matter, not particularly well-blended.
Next, I process according to Frenchy's methodology. It was rolled out and folded a total of seven times using a heavy glass bottle filled with 170 degree water. Pic #3 shows what it looked like after the final pressing. As you can see from macro #4, it is *much* more uniform, and I can tell a marked difference in the flavor and smoothness of the hit from it compared to the unpressed hash.
Thanks Matt, thanks Frenchy.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
I usually add a gram or two or three of Hash in my coffee. It all depends on your tolerance, everybody is different at that level.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
When you use only water, you have to drink/eat it all since the cannabinoids DO NOT dissolve in water.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Hey Baywatcher. Good press my friend. As you can see on your first and second pics you have some green matter with your resin glands, it is due mostly to the use of the 45 microns bags as the main collecting bag. You did not mention the micron of your catch bag which is really important in your end quality, but you should use the 70 microns as your goody bag. The bigger thread will let a lot of that green matter through in the 45. Also really use a powerful spray to wash your trichomes in the bag, it helps a lot. Keeping the 25 microns for edibles is a good move, I am waiting for my bag as well as for my 190 microns to check if my 160 delivers goodies as well. I did mention that Nikka T often get very high quality trichomes in his 160, so we in fact should think of the trichomes as potentially bigger than 70 to 120 microns. The big trichomes are a special treat that should not be wasted
Baywatcher
Well-Known Member
Next run I'll try using 160 as my trash and 70 as my catch and see how that goes. I can put the 45 in the butter as well. Thanks.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Good morning Quizoking, thanks for the info.
I am writing an article for High Times on pressing, curing and aging Hash and the traditional knowledge that I have has no science behind yet. It would be awesome to bring the WHY of those traditions to the table and if you are game I would really appreciate your help.
My first question would be: Why is it necessary to "cure" your loose trichomes a few months before pressing and smoking? This has been going since the dawn of time, it is mandatory in all producing countries and it is one of the main difference between Charas and Hashish, live trichomes versus dry and cured one.
I have a lot more of those tricky questions to answer, bring me the science that I need to shade some light
I am writing an article for High Times on pressing, curing and aging Hash and the traditional knowledge that I have has no science behind yet. It would be awesome to bring the WHY of those traditions to the table and if you are game I would really appreciate your help.
My first question would be: Why is it necessary to "cure" your loose trichomes a few months before pressing and smoking? This has been going since the dawn of time, it is mandatory in all producing countries and it is one of the main difference between Charas and Hashish, live trichomes versus dry and cured one.
I have a lot more of those tricky questions to answer, bring me the science that I need to shade some light
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Man I'm not very technologically inclined. I'm gonna try and post a pretty good link on terpenes and how they effect the high as well as their degredation also mentioning how the cure oxidizes and alters terpenes
http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/
Here's a quote " terpene compounds begin to volatilize at temperatures as low as 75 degrees F. That means that drying and storing your Cannabis at cool temperatures is a must when it comes to keeping that flavor locked in"
The process is called polycyclic aromatization and is what's responsible for new flavors and aromas as it cures. Unfortunately the link doesn't go into much if it even mentions it
Skunkpharm makes cannabuttons. Here is(hopefully) a link to their page where they make and talk about how pressing smoothes the smoke and removes harshness, they do it to bud though but the reasoning is the same....hopefully that is adequate I can provide better scientific documentation like the study above later...
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/cannabuttons/
If that wasn't adequate or if you have further questions I can go into more detail, I just thought both of those articles were interesting
http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/
Here's a quote " terpene compounds begin to volatilize at temperatures as low as 75 degrees F. That means that drying and storing your Cannabis at cool temperatures is a must when it comes to keeping that flavor locked in"
The process is called polycyclic aromatization and is what's responsible for new flavors and aromas as it cures. Unfortunately the link doesn't go into much if it even mentions it
Skunkpharm makes cannabuttons. Here is(hopefully) a link to their page where they make and talk about how pressing smoothes the smoke and removes harshness, they do it to bud though but the reasoning is the same....hopefully that is adequate I can provide better scientific documentation like the study above later...
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/cannabuttons/
If that wasn't adequate or if you have further questions I can go into more detail, I just thought both of those articles were interesting
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
The 45 is too good most of the time for butter, keep only your 25 for edibles.
Shawns
Active Member
I read that your not supposed to press your hash untill your going to smoke it cause once you press your thc degrades faster if storing hash for long periods it is best kept cool and loose not pressed i got this from a book you Frenchy recommended Hashish by robert clarke
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Sorry I understood that you were technologically "rooted", that it was your background. Anyway you pointed me to the polycyclic aromatization which is already a nice first step on the curing process.
Thanks, very much appreciated
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
One of the big point where I do not agree with him, anyway he contradicts himself on the subject 2 or 3 times in the book
Shawns
Active Member
I haven't read it all but don't you think it kind of makes sense, if you leave the trichomes loose most of the cannabinoids are protected by the cell wall but once you press this wall is broken there for exposing the cannabinoids slowly releasing them specially if kept at room temp. the study in the book showed that when pressed the outside protective layer of the hash looses thc faster then the inside.
In no way am I trying to think I know more then you not even close this is just what I read and it does kind of make sense
Thank you very much Frenhcy for all your teachings I hope you don't think I'm trying to argue just trying to learn
In no way am I trying to think I know more then you not even close this is just what I read and it does kind of make sense
Thank you very much Frenhcy for all your teachings I hope you don't think I'm trying to argue just trying to learn
Baywatcher
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the reduced surface area of pressed (in relation to unpressed) slows oxidation? Mine never lasts long enough for much degradation either way 
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
"recombining it under pressure,but the surface area is reduced, which reduces the area that can react with oxygen at any given time, which cools the smoke down and reduces harshness."
Little snippet. Both links are long but have a lot of info mixed in there. In a pretty understandable format
Little snippet. Both links are long but have a lot of info mixed in there. In a pretty understandable format
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
So tell me why trichomes on flowers degrade in 1 year or so and pressed hashish can last years. It is true that the outside layer of trichomes will degrade in contact to air but the inside will remain yummy for years to come. A perfect example is the Royal Nepalese Temple Balls which do not need "packaging protection" to store and age.
Please guys, I am not the second coming of the Messiah and I have plenty to learn from you as we go along. "Positive arguing" is like positive critics, as long as we all aim to learn from each other and create a pool of knowledge, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY about hurting my feeling or whatever.
Frenchy Cannoli
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about it, we welcome knowledge here and I think that you understand now what we are trying to create