Pandemic 2020

[Sativied]

In Canada we ordered 10 doses of various vaccine candidates, including the 2 recently in the news, for every citizen, the unused ones will end up in other poorer countries.

So you ordered 5 times the doses you’d need for Canada, to be able to give away the surplus to poorer countries? It seems unlikely you will get all those and the surplus before the rest of the western world has enough for their entire population too, or at least enough to bring R rate below 1. Sounds like a ’nice’ initiative, but it will require a massive international effort and funding and lot more doses to vaccinate the rest of the world. The reason to order now is to avoid being in the back of the line, ordering ahead for countries that will still be last in line seems more symbolic than practical. Not like the vaccine factories will stop after the pre-orders. It would be better to contribute to an international fund.

Donald made a crises that would be a challenge for any government into a catastrophe and we all know the reasons and results. America has 8.6 times the US population and we are the closest model to America, we have 300,000 total cases, in American terms about 2.6 million cases, America under Trump has over 11,000,000 cases, almost four and a half times as many per capita than Canada. At least 9 million cases can be placed at Trump's feet. Our response was average for an industrialized nation, below average in the beginning I figure.

A few weeks ago we, in NL, had more daily cases per 100,000 citizens than the US. Blaming 9 out of 11 cases on Trump isn’t realistic. Presidents don’t start or stop the spread, people do, and in most countries they act like the idiots people just are, regardless of their government’s good or bad intentions.

“tested positive per 100k population”

Difference between first wave and second is partly due to the large difference in amount of testing. Now roughly 1.5% of the population gets tested per day, with roughly 15% testing positive. Number of deaths and hospitalizations is actually lower than in first wave, which is why we let it get so high before taking sufficient action.

The reason for the fast decline over the past 2-3 weeks is closing bars/restaurants again, limiting group gatherings, only go out in pairs max, and finally, finally most people started wearing masks (voluntarily). R-rate went from 1.38 to 0.91 in just 3 weeks. In a country where “rules are for sheep” and laws mostly considered guidelines that can be bend.

Plenty of other countries where at points the rates were higher and the response to each wave shows leaders underestimated the situation, while they don’t have an idiot like Trump calling the shots. It’s too easy for americans to blame the high infection numbers and deaths on Trump. In fact it’s quite silly to depend on and wait for Trump to take action. One of the stats the media frequently throws around is “if 95% of the population in the US would start wearing masks, X thousand people less will die by feb 2021”. Trump or Biden, I don’t see that happening regardless because in the end its about people acting responsible and adapting, which conservatives aren’t particularly good at regardless of which president they elected.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

So you ordered 5 times the doses you’d need for Canada, to be able to give away the surplus to poorer countries? It seems unlikely you will get all those and the surplus before the rest of the western world has enough for their entire population too, or at least enough to bring R rate below 1. Sounds like a ’nice’ initiative, but it will require a massive international effort and funding and lot more doses to vaccinate the rest of the world. The reason to order now is to avoid being in the back of the line, ordering ahead for countries that will still be last in line seems more symbolic than practical. Not like the vaccine factories will stop after the pre-orders. It would be better to contribute to an international fund.


A few weeks ago we, in NL, had more daily cases per 100,000 citizens than the US. Blaming 9 out of 11 cases on Trump isn’t realistic. Presidents don’t start or stop the spread, people do, and in most countries they act like the idiots people just are, regardless of their government’s good or bad intentions.

“tested positive per 100k population”
View attachment 4744802
Difference between first wave and second is partly due to the large difference in amount of testing. Now roughly 1.5% of the population gets tested per day, with roughly 15% testing positive. Number of deaths and hospitalizations is actually lower than in first wave, which is why we let it get so high before taking sufficient action.

The reason for the fast decline over the past 2-3 weeks is closing bars/restaurants again, limiting group gatherings, only go out in pairs max, and finally, finally most people started wearing masks (voluntarily). R-rate went from 1.38 to 0.91 in just 3 weeks. In a country where “rules are for sheep” and laws mostly considered guidelines that can be bend.

Plenty of other countries where at points the rates were higher and the response to each wave shows leaders underestimated the situation, while they don’t have an idiot like Trump calling the shots. It’s too easy for americans to blame the high infection numbers and deaths on Trump. In fact it’s quite silly to depend on and wait for Trump to take action. One of the stats the media frequently throws around is “if 95% of the population in the US would start wearing masks, X thousand people less will die by feb 2021”. Trump or Biden, I don’t see that happening regardless because in the end its about people acting responsible and adapting, which conservatives aren’t particularly good at regardless of which president they elected.

We ordered one of everything that looked good as did most counties, most of these will probably work to some degree or another and might even be useful domestically. It will take years to roll out and those vaccines we don't need, but work, will be shipped to poor places and most countries will take this approach too. One way or another most of the world will get vaccinated. There are over 200 vaccines for covid under development now and several are due to also release clinical trial data soon. By the time Joe hits office there should be a half dozen or more vaccines ready to go of varying efficacies, the FDA was originally gonna accept 50% efficacy and Modera's is well above the usual efficacy rates for viral vaccines. Fauci is so happy he is near pissing his pants with joy as is every expert I've seen, they have a great deal of confidence in the tech and the people doing the work, good enough for now.

In Canada 70% of people are willing to take the vaccine already public confidence is that high, even with the side effects of a powerful immune response like fever and fatigue for a day or two. That's herd immunity right there and hopefully we will be at it by fall or winter, America too. I don't see that there will be much difference in public confidence on the vaccine, Joe's people will get access by dec 14th, or Donald will go early one way or another. Joe will be POTUS elect officially and this shit is killing Mitch's hopes for 2 senate seats in Georgia.

This pandemic is a major challenge for every government on the planet, the magnitude of the failure is Trump's alone. America has almost four and a half times the cases per capita than Canada, all the excess is Trump's responsibility. We are all in for a rough winter and it will be a struggle to get through to vaccine deployment and some measure of herd immunity. Vaccinating the vulnerable first will dramatically cut the mortality quickly, get the most vulnerable 10% of the population identified and vaccinated and the death drops like a stone. Vaccinate healthcare workers and other front line folks and you do a lot to stop the spread and mitigate the consequences, teachers and other workers in schools could be protected first too, as could vulnerable students, a little can go a long way fast if deployed intelligently and it will be.

 

[hillbill]

trump totally fucked up, we lead the world in Covid deaths.

 

[Sativied]

America has almost four and a half times the cases per capita than Canada, all the excess is Trump's responsibility.

Yeah that’s just not how it works. Canada isn’t some standard that can be used to blame responsibility for numbers in a completely different country. Comparing to a large amount of countries instead of just Canada obviously paints a more realistic picture.

Comparing deaths US to Canada shows less than 3 times the deaths in the US. Considering obesity percentage is 50% higher in US than Canada, a mayor impacting factor on death rates, different population density, there’s a whole more to it than blaming Trump. Obviously Trump handled it poorly, but not as poorly as you and dems in US try to make it seem. Trump makes a perfect scapegoat, but again, in the end it’s the populations responsibility to stop the spread.

 

[hanimmal]

So you ordered 5 times the doses you’d need for Canada, to be able to give away the surplus to poorer countries? It seems unlikely you will get all those and the surplus before the rest of the western world has enough for their entire population too, or at least enough to bring R rate below 1. Sounds like a ’nice’ initiative, but it will require a massive international effort and funding and lot more doses to vaccinate the rest of the world. The reason to order now is to avoid being in the back of the line, ordering ahead for countries that will still be last in line seems more symbolic than practical. Not like the vaccine factories will stop after the pre-orders. It would be better to contribute to an international fund.


A few weeks ago we, in NL, had more daily cases per 100,000 citizens than the US. Blaming 9 out of 11 cases on Trump isn’t realistic. Presidents don’t start or stop the spread, people do, and in most countries they act like the idiots people just are, regardless of their government’s good or bad intentions.

“tested positive per 100k population”
View attachment 4744802
Difference between first wave and second is partly due to the large difference in amount of testing. Now roughly 1.5% of the population gets tested per day, with roughly 15% testing positive. Number of deaths and hospitalizations is actually lower than in first wave, which is why we let it get so high before taking sufficient action.

The reason for the fast decline over the past 2-3 weeks is closing bars/restaurants again, limiting group gatherings, only go out in pairs max, and finally, finally most people started wearing masks (voluntarily). R-rate went from 1.38 to 0.91 in just 3 weeks. In a country where “rules are for sheep” and laws mostly considered guidelines that can be bend.

Plenty of other countries where at points the rates were higher and the response to each wave shows leaders underestimated the situation, while they don’t have an idiot like Trump calling the shots. It’s too easy for americans to blame the high infection numbers and deaths on Trump. In fact it’s quite silly to depend on and wait for Trump to take action. One of the stats the media frequently throws around is “if 95% of the population in the US would start wearing masks, X thousand people less will die by feb 2021”. Trump or Biden, I don’t see that happening regardless because in the end its about people acting responsible and adapting, which conservatives aren’t particularly good at regardless of which president they elected.

I blame Trump and the Russian military for creating super spreader events, and manipulating what is essentially a radicalized domestic terrorist potentially spreading a virus terrorizing people they come in contact with because of whatever reason it is that they have been convinced about online or through Trump's noise factory.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/ap-russian-military-behind-spread-of-coronavirus-disinformation.1025725/

Also Trump could have ramped up production of testing and not wasted hundreds of millions and broke the law he signed by ignoring the oversight role so he could reward his buddies.

I am not saying you are not correct in the above, but I don't know where you are getting the blaming 9 out of 11 people with the virus on Trump. Nor how any of this has anything to do with Democrats. Im sure someone somewhere is analyzing how many cases come out of Trump's super spreader events and will get a decent understanding of how much of a impact Trump has actually had on this pandemic.

Really though as POTUS he did the absolute worse job on combating this virus. From start to finish he bungled everything and I would say it is hard pressed to say did less harm than he helped the situation and the Republicans are doing everything they can to melt our economy.

So I guess that it what it has to do with the Democrats, because it is a Republican mess they are leaving to troll the Democrats with while they force them to clean it up once again.

 

[Sativied]

but I don't know where you are getting the blaming 9 out of 11 people with the virus on Trump

From the post I replied to.

And yes, Trump sucks at his job. That was obvious 4 years ago already. Blaming 9 out if 11 cases on Trump, or the common accusation he killed 200k+ people, is almost as far from reality as his supporters are.

 

[hanimmal]

From the post I replied to.

Oh ok, that makes sense. Not what you were responding to, I am not going to bother to read that.

And yes, Trump sucks at his job. That was obvious 4 years ago already. Blaming 9 out if 11 cases on Trump, or the common accusation he killed 200k+ people, is almost as far from reality as his supporters are.

No worries, I think you might be getting sucked down a black hole with that one.

Remember you always have your ignore list when trolling becomes obvious.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yeah that’s just not how it works. Canada isn’t some standard that can be used to blame responsibility for numbers in a completely different country. Comparing to a large amount of countries instead of just Canada obviously paints a more realistic picture.

Comparing deaths US to Canada shows less than 3 times the deaths in the US. Considering obesity percentage is 50% higher in US than Canada, a mayor impacting factor on death rates, different population density, there’s a whole more to it than blaming Trump. Obviously Trump handled it poorly, but not as poorly as you and dems in US try to make it seem. Trump makes a perfect scapegoat, but again, in the end it’s the populations responsibility to stop the spread.

I think with the introduction of steroids that have caused the death rate to plummet, mortality rates are no longer a good metric, cases and hospitalizations are. These drugs and antiviral therapeutics have caused the mortality rate to plummet, so the only real measure is testing and the rate of infections found during tests. Soon North America and Europe, where there are more vulnerable people, will be vaccinated by spring at the latest and the mortality rate will drop to nearly zero.

Trump fucked this up very badly and we have yet to see what damage he will do to the vaccine effort. He didn't cause covid, but he made it much worse than it had to be, it also revealed weaknesses in American society and healthcare, weaknesses caused by policies distorted by greed racism and bigotry. The same things that fuck up any community of humans, fear, hate and greed, natural propensities gone out of control in individuals and causing harm to the community, we call them character flaws and moral failures.

 

[Dryxi]

I think it just isn't realistic to think vaccinations are going to stop this in the next year. We all know a number of people who do not go to the doctor much or that work insane hours. There won't be a way to force all these people to go to the doctor and get a vaccine, and then the booster a week or so later. Add to that the many millions of people that for one reason or another will refuse to take the vaccine right away or anytime soon.

There is really no way they convince 50%+ to accept this vaccine/ get it, we can't even convince a large majority of people to vote every 4 years.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I think it just isn't realistic to think vaccinations are going to stop this in the next year. We all know a number of people who do not go to the doctor much or that work insane hours. There won't be a way to force all these people to go to the doctor and get a vaccine, and then the booster a week or so later. Add to that the many millions of people that for one reason or another will refuse to take the vaccine right away or anytime soon.

There is really no way they convince 50%+ to accept this vaccine/ get it, we can't even convince a large majority of people to vote every 4 years.

I can only point to an expert and I think he has integrity and knows what he is talking about. I posted this a little bit back in this thread, one page I think
Dr. Gottlieb on Moderna vaccine: We can effectively end Covid-19 pandemic in 2021

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I think it just isn't realistic to think vaccinations are going to stop this in the next year. We all know a number of people who do not go to the doctor much or that work insane hours. There won't be a way to force all these people to go to the doctor and get a vaccine, and then the booster a week or so later. Add to that the many millions of people that for one reason or another will refuse to take the vaccine right away or anytime soon.

There is really no way they convince 50%+ to accept this vaccine/ get it, we can't even convince a large majority of people to vote every 4 years.

In Canada a recent poll on these vaccines found almost 70% would take the vaccine and confidence will build over time. 70% is herd immunity territory and the innocent will be protected at least, those who think it's fake news or a hoax, covid offers immunity too, as well as death. There should be a menu of antibody therapies by then as well and they also confer limited immunity. Depending on vaccine distribution and uptake America should be at herd immunity by school season and the rate knocked down enough and workers protected enough to open schools in the fall as normal. When schools get back to normal, it does a lot for normal.

 

[Doug Dawson]

We ordered one of everything that looked good as did most counties, most of these will probably work to some degree or another and might even be useful domestically. It will take years to roll out and those vaccines we don't need, but work, will be shipped to poor places and most countries will take this approach too. One way or another most of the world will get vaccinated. There are over 200 vaccines for covid under development now and several are due to also release clinical trial data soon. By the time Joe hits office there should be a half dozen or more vaccines ready to go of varying efficacies, the FDA was originally gonna accept 50% efficacy and Modera's is well above the usual efficacy rates for viral vaccines. Fauci is so happy he is near pissing his pants with joy as is every expert I've seen, they have a great deal of confidence in the tech and the people doing the work, good enough for now.

In Canada 70% of people are willing to take the vaccine already public confidence is that high, even with the side effects of a powerful immune response like fever and fatigue for a day or two. That's herd immunity right there and hopefully we will be at it by fall or winter, America too. I don't see that there will be much difference in public confidence on the vaccine, Joe's people will get access by dec 14th, or Donald will go early one way or another. Joe will be POTUS elect officially and this shit is killing Mitch's hopes for 2 senate seats in Georgia.

This pandemic is a major challenge for every government on the planet, the magnitude of the failure is Trump's alone. America has almost four and a half times the cases per capita than Canada, all the excess is Trump's responsibility. We are all in for a rough winter and it will be a struggle to get through to vaccine deployment and some measure of herd immunity. Vaccinating the vulnerable first will dramatically cut the mortality quickly, get the most vulnerable 10% of the population identified and vaccinated and the death drops like a stone. Vaccinate healthcare workers and other front line folks and you do a lot to stop the spread and mitigate the consequences, teachers and other workers in schools could be protected first too, as could vulnerable students, a little can go a long way fast if deployed intelligently and it will be.

Where do you get the idea that 70% of people, none of whom have been really asked, are willing to take a vaccine that in the end was rushed to market as fast as possible? I am just curious as I am in Canada and work in a hospital but have not heard this claim?

 

[Doug Dawson]

In Canada a recent poll on these vaccines found almost 70% would take the vaccine and confidence will build over time. 70% is herd immunity territory and the innocent will be protected at least, those who think it's fake news or a hoax, covid offers immunity too, as well as death. There should be a menu of antibody therapies by then as well and they also confer limited immunity. Depending on vaccine distribution and uptake America should be at herd immunity by school season and the rate knocked down enough and workers protected enough to open schools in the fall as normal. When schools get back to normal, it does a lot for normal.

Oh I see, it was a poll that encompassed a tiny group. Time will tell what the reality is, let's hope this poll is right.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Where do you get the idea that 70% of people, none of whom have been really asked, are willing to take a vaccine that in the end was rushed to market as fast as possible? I am just curious as I am in Canada and work in a hospital but have not heard this claim?

I saw it on the CBC news, apparently they did a quick poll of 1500 people, not too sure if the sample included much of the second vaccine. I saw it on the text at the bottom of the screen during an interview on this latest vaccine. It fits with past surveys, apparently it has a lot to do with who makes it and if the experts are enthusiastic about it Fauci convinced many in Canada too, he is trusted, so are other doctors and experts.

As a healthcare worker you are first in line, voluntarily of course, much depends on pending work, but these people would not quote time frames and the vaccine has been in production for some time now.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Oh I see, it was a poll that encompassed a tiny group. Time will tell what the reality is, let's hope this poll is right.

Covid is one Helluva an incentive for folks, especially the vulnerable and the more vulnerable you are the less risk with a vaccine, covid confers immunity too. I'm sure the polling on public confidence is gonna be extensive, public health officials need it for planning etc. There will be more in depth polling available soon and over time as this is deployed, there will be several vaccines by spring using more traditional methods, but I think this mRNA one will be the most effective, 95% is almost astounding efficacy for a viral vaccine.

 

[Doug Dawson]

Covid is one Helluva an incentive for folks, especially the vulnerable and the more vulnerable you are the less risk with a vaccine, covid confers immunity too. I'm sure the polling on public confidence is gonna be extensive, public health officials need it for planning etc. There will be more in depth polling available soon and over time as this is deployed, there will be several vaccines by spring using more traditional methods, but I think this mRNA one will be the most effective, 95% is almost astounding efficacy for a viral vaccine.

Here is hoping for all our sakes they find something that works and we can convince everyone to take it. I get people's apprehension, no one want to grow a second head 5 or 10 years down the road for taking a drug rushed into creation or get cancer from it. In the end this horror story needs to be put to rest so I hope they can sort it out before too many more die. Here is wishing us all luck.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Its normally the 3rd world countries mass testing new drugs. It gets to be Americans turn. Ironic or what?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The COVID conversation | 22 Minutes

 

[Northwood]

Difference between first wave and second is partly due to the large difference in amount of testing.

A 15% national positivity rate and you say the difference is largely due to testing? I want your weed because it's better than mine, or else the koolaid you've been drinking. Good lord, if your positivity rate is over 1%, for sure you're not doing enough testing nationally. Heck some states are over 20%, even 40%! Too much testing? Yeah right... stop the testing - stop covid!

When the positivity rate goes down while positive tests increase, that means you're doing more testing thus revealing more cases. That's just not happening in the USA.

 

[Sativied]

No, I didn’t say “largely”, I said partly. “Large“ was in regards to the difference in the amount of testing. The fact is that during the first wave people, in NL, people were barely tested, not until they were very sick and needed care. My point is not that there are more cases now because of testing.... the first wave however was in reality much higher than the graph shows, because the low amount of testing then. Nowadays everyone with just the slightest symptoms gets tested, exposing a more completely picture.

Trump already lost, no longer needed to refute his nonsense with half-truths. Given a steady rate of infection, more testing does result in more cases on paper, and less testing results in less results on paper. Of course the amount of testing doesn’t change the actual amount of infections, but guess what... the number of cases in a graph or a report are never a completely accurate representation of reality, they depend heavily on the amount of testing.

Clearly your own weed impairs you’re reading ability too much already so you’re not ready for mine yet.