ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Wow. Ad hominem and Strawman much?
Bernie Sanders’ Political Revolution Is Gaining Ground
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Because they're defending the wrong side and they know it.+rep
why doesn't this person with Ph.D get this?
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Let's make the size of the patch proportional to the size of the contribution and then we'd really be onto something.just thought it weird, not quibbling.
something like this?
Better yet, a constitutional amendment to outlaw money in politics and imprison those who break it would actually solve the problem.
I'm sickened and astonished at the Supreme Court of the United States for actually equating money and free speech.
A more dangerous and despicable ruling hasn't been made in my lifetime. Since when should corporations get human Rights and privileges of citizenship that actually supercede those of actual living, breathing citizens?!
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The Sanders movement is moving more and more to the right. The Sanders movement was never about social reform and probably why African Americans and Hispanic voters weren't as energized as you and your kind.
By avoiding the touchy subject of racial issues and social equality in this country Sanders is reaching out to white people in the center and right of the political spectrum. It's a smart tactic for an old man who wants to leave the country better off than how he found it. He doesn't have time for the hard issue and so is pushing the easier economic ones. At least that's my current take on what's going on with your guy.
Opinions
The Sanders movement is only just beginning
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sanders-movement-is-only-just-beginning/2016/08/09/228b8744-5d87-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html?utm_term=.d75f1a0c1ba4
This is a recent article about the developments of the Sanders movement. From my perspective, it's a very positive article about the direction and developments in "Our Revolution" 's recent efforts. I'm not criticizing the objectives of the movement at all, I'm just not on board with a movement that is all about economic reform and downplays or even devalues the objective of social equality.
I found this passage very interesting:
Sanders and his supporters are intent on giving these efforts institutional backing. The Vermont senator has announced the formation of Our Revolution, which will support progressive candidates up and down the ticket. Organizers from the Sanders campaign have launched Brand New Congress, an ambitious effort to run 400-plus populist candidates for Congress — including independents and Republicans as well as Democrats — in 2018, with “a single, unified campaign with a single plan,” and centralized crowd-sourced financing — small donors contributing to a national pool in a historic effort to transform a Congress that is corrupt and dysfunctional. These new efforts will augment progressive groups like the Working Families Party, MoveOn.org, Democracy for America, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and People’s Action, all of whom are growing in energy and ambition in the wake of the Sanders campaign.
I'll repeat a key line: candidates for Congress — including independents and Republicans as well as Democrats — in 2018, with “a single, unified campaign with a single plan,”
Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing to build a coalition across party lines. If this is true then the "revolution" is not that at all. It's "Our Reform", a reform of campaign spending and probably some other objectives such as $15 minimum wage by 2022 thrown in. Some will definitely be anti-choice, some will campaign against political correctness. Maybe this "unified campaign" will include health care reform but in order to get Republicans on board, not single payer healthcare. This is a progressive movement in the center of the political spectrum. This should play well with the white population who make up about 66% of the voters and so it's probably a good strategy.
As I've said before about Bernie's policies, not bad but insufficient. Certainly not revolution.
@#$"&-
Active Member
Bernie Sanders is just another politician. When the DNC did to Bernie what the GOP also did to Trump it became glaringly apparent what " party politics" in this country is all about. The time is right for the formation of alternate political parties. Campaign and messaging costs to start would be much more affordable using social media, you tube etc. The Fed has divided us for decades with two bad choices, effectively neutering our ability to be represented properly. The basis of the American Revolutionary War was mainly "taxation without representation ". Sounds kind of current to me.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This is entirely in keeping with his political position as a centrist in a country whose Overton Window has moved wildly to the right.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie isn't just another politician. He's different. He's just not a socialist as people on the right tagged him. He never was. Bernie is outside the Democratic Party in terms of party affiliation and think he's going to contribute to the country by providing the necessary boost to reform campaign financing.
"The Fed has divided up with two bad choices?" WTF do you mean by that?
Are we really "taxation without representation"? Do you presume to be the arbiter of all public opinion?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
He isn't presuming to speak for anyone but himself- while you have on many occasions.
And from an objective point of view, it certainly looks like corporations and ultra wealthy donors have a lot more influence over the American political system than average citizens do, which tends to color his statement with more truth than some might be comfortable with.
Try again. This comment failed miserably.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Another utter fail. You used to actually think for yourself.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
So why then did the Justice Democrat (super)PAC (who you've spent the last 6 months sucking off) register to take unlimited funds from Corporations?
You know they had to explicitly register to do that?
Why won't you just be fucking honest about it?
You can keep rebranding the same shit over and over again but it's a case (No pun intended) of "old wine, new bottle".
Either vote Democrat or go full Socialist, I'd rather the latter but it's a wasted vote in the current situation.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
No. It is not up to you to dictate my choices. The fact that you continue to try speaks volumes about the weakness of your own positions.
@#$"&-
Active Member
Bernie was my first choice....The Democratic National Committee screwed him, that's a fact. If he runs again as a Democrat then he is going to have to play ball with the DNC. The DNC is run by elitists just like the GOP. I have lost faith in a two party system to adequately represent the American people. The taxation without representation sort of speaks for itself. Who really feels represented here under the current divisive system that we live with now.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't not support Bernie and I don't support him, I'm just trying to get a sense of what's going on with him. One thing is certain, he's not playing ball with the DNC. This is what he was saying during his "unity tour" with Perez.
Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed
https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed
The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.
Sanders, a longtime independent and self-described democratic socialist, made headlines for reaffirming that he still doesn’t consider himself a Democrat. (His comments came in a joint interview with Perez that also exposed enduring messaging rifts between them.) The week got worse on Wednesday, when Sanders told The Washington Post that Georgia Democratic congressional candidate Jon Ossoff is “not a progressive,” and again on Thursday, when the tour mates were criticized for campaigning for Heath Mello, an anti-choice mayoral candidate in Omaha, Nebraska.
"How in God's name are they winning elections?"
http://www.npr.org/2017/04/22/525089501/sanders-unity-tour-with-dnc-chair-exposes-rifts-but-also-suggests-common-goals
Sanders would offer a lot of credibility if he threw his arms around the DNC.
But that didn't happen over the course of the week. Over and over again, Sanders made headlines for critiquing the Democratic Party.
He said several times that Donald Trump didn't win last year's election — Democrats had lost it.
In a backstage dressing room after a speech in Grand Prairie, Texas, Sanders explained what he meant. "Democrats have not put forward an agenda that speaks to the needs of people who are in pain," he said.
Does this sound like somebody who is playing ball with the DNC?
Recently his organization "Our Revolution" or better put "Our Reform" that started about a year ago is endorsing Democrats, Independents and Republicans. His brand is to be divisive and independent and that's what he's doing now. I think he's going to do a great service to the country to pull Congress away from the far right and set in motion the actions necessary to reform campaign finance and spending.
Everybody complains about taxes but protect their own government honey pot. We aren't excessively taxed in this country. The problem as I see it is the 1% have control of where it's spent. Not saying you are unjustly complaining about taxation but it does sound more like a childish whine. What would you cut? I bet it's not something important to you. I'll be happy to see less control by the 1%. Taxes might go up if some of Bernie's other policies are enacted. Such as single payer healthcare. You good with that?
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
Totally didn't dodge the question for the umpteenth time there or anything.
Can I start calling you a Corporate Shill now or will you try answer the question?
@#$"&-
Active Member
Taxation as it pertains to representation, not so much about taxes themselves. Universal health care, I'm all for it. What leadership of this country would not want a healthy, we'll educated populace? As far as the costs, well how about the costs currently. Obama care in its current form gives billions of tax dollars to insurance companies. Cherry pick the current health care systems of other countries, they have done all the hard work already. And most of all completely eliminate insurance companies from our health care system.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I have no idea what you think about taxes. Except maybe we agree that the 1% has it's hand on how they are spent. Is that what you mean by "no representation"?
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
Very few seem to completely remove insurance but present it as an option for people who want private care.