Where is that oil from Keystone going?

desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Building the pipeline will take several years at least and will require several thousand skilled and unskilled laborers. Refining the oil will require labor. Maintaining the pipeline will require skilled labor.

These are shovel-ready jobs!
 
C

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Building the pipeline will take several years at least and will require several thousand skilled and unskilled laborers. Refining the oil will require labor. Maintaining the pipeline will require skilled labor.

These are shovel-ready jobs!
Click to expand...
Sir, 'shovel ready jobs' are not skilled labor. They are called 'labor' and typically pay 'shit'.

Refining is not a 'labor' intensive process. Maintaining a pipeline is not a labor intensive job unless it breaks.

With wishful thinking like this, it is no wonder you are not respected.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Koch Industries environmental crimes, violations, and contamination include:
  • Subsidiaries of Koch Carbon have accumulated massive piles of petroleum coke in U.S. cities like Detroit and Chicago, where the toxic dust has blown into peoples' homes from a 5-story-tall pile of petcoke. Petcoke is a byproduct of refining tar sands that is usually burned like coal. Petcoke, which is more carbon-intensive than coal, is typically exported and burned in other countries with little to no air or climate regulations. While Detroit's mayor ordered Koch to move its petcoke pile, Chicago regulators and politicians have not acted with the same urgency despite sustained local protests from community members, nurses, and threats of lawsuits from environmental groups. In response, Koch claims it will add protections to its unlined pile, which could take two years.
  • Facing "enormous" cleanup costs for soil and groundwater contamination and high crude oil prices, Flint Hills announced in 2014 that it would permanently close its North Pole refinery outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. Koch blames contamination on the refinery's previous owner, Williams Companies.
  • In May 2001, Koch Industries paid $25 million to settle with the US Government over a long-standing suit brought by Bill Koch - one of the brothers bought out in 1983 - for the company's long-standing practice of illegally removing oil from federal and Indian lands.
  • In late 2000, the company was charged with covering up the illegal releases of 91 tons of the known carcinogen benzene from its refinery in Corpus Christi. Initially facing a 97-count indictment and potential fines of $350 million, Koch cut a deal with then-Attorney General John Ashcroft to drop all major charges in exchange for a guilty plea for falsifying documents, and a $20 million settlement.
  • In 2000, the EPA fined Koch Industries $30 million for its role in 300 oil spills that resulted in more than three million gallons of crude oil leaking into ponds, lakes, streams and coastal waters.
  • In 1999 a Koch subsidiary pleaded guilty to charges that it had negligently allowed aviation fuel to leak into waters near the Mississippi River from its refinery in Rosemount, Minnesota, and that it had illegally dumped a million gallons of high-ammonia wastewater onto the ground and into the Mississippi.
  • Koch's negligence toward environmental safety has led to tragic losses of life. In 1996, a rusty Koch pipeline leaked flammable butane near a Texas residential neighborhood. Warned by the smell of gas, two teenagers drove their truck toward the nearest payphone to call for help, but they never made it. Sparks from their truck ignited the gas cloud and the two burned alive. The National Transportation Safety Board determined that "the probable cause of this accident was the failure of Koch to adequately protect its pipeline from corrosion" and the ineffectiveness of Koch's program to educate local residents about how to respond during a pipeline leak.
The inability of Koch companies to avoid pollution incidents stands in contrast with Charles Koch's "Guiding Principles" of his trademarked corporate management theory, "Market-Based Management," which states, "Strive for 10,000% compliance with all laws and regulations, which requires 100% of employees fully complying 100% of the time." This also excludes from consideration the ways in which Koch is permitted to legally pollute.
Formaldehyde, Cancer, and David Koch
While David Koch, a victim of prostate cancer, has donated millions to cancer research institutions and is a member of the National Cancer Advisory Board, Koch Industries subsidiary Georgia-Pacific is actively working to downplay the dangers of formaldehyde, a known carcinogen.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
In 2000, for its 300 reported oil spills which had taken place across six states, Koch paid the largest civil fine ever imposed on a company under any federal environmental law for the illegal discharge of crude oil and petroleum products. In a settlement with the U.S. Justice Department and the state of Texas, the company agreed to pay a "$30 million civil penalty, improve its leak-prevention programs and spend $5 million on environmental projects."[43][44][45][46][47][48]
In 1996, an 8-inch-diameter steel LPG pipeline operated by Koch Pipeline Company ruptured near Lively, Texas and began leaking butane gas. The vapor cloud ignited when two residents drove their pickup truck through the flammable vapors to get to a neighbor's house to call 9-1-1 to report the leak. The two were killed in the explosion, and approximately 25 families were later evacuated from the neighborhood without injury. An investigation conducted by the NTSB found that the pipe section which failed had not been shown to have excessive corrosion in a 1995 inspection. Regulations at the time did not provide criteria for "adequate cathodic protection."[49] Koch also stated that the bacteria-induced corrosion acted quicker than had ever previously been recorded in the industry. The explosion was the only event of its kind in the company’s history. In 1999, a Texas jury found that negligence had led to the rupture of the Koch pipeline and awarded the victims' families $296 million - "the largest compensatory damages judgment in a wrongful death case against a corporation in U.S. history".[41][50]
In 2000, a federal grand jury returned a 97-count indictment against Koch Industries and its individual employees for environmental crimes relating to excess emissions of 85 metric tons of benzene, a known carcinogen.[51][52] In 2001, Koch Industries was fined $20 million, of which $10 million was a criminal fine and $10 million to clean up the environment.[53]
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Building the pipeline will take several years at least and will require several thousand skilled and unskilled laborers. Refining the oil will require labor. Maintaining the pipeline will require skilled labor.

These are shovel-ready jobs!
Click to expand...
so then you are conceding that the ARRA created and saved millions of jobs.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Charles, 75, and David, 71, each worth about $20 billion, are prominent financial backers of groups that believe that excessive regulation is sapping the competitiveness of American business. They inherited their anti-government leanings from their father.
Abolishing Social Security
Fred was an early adviser to the founder of the anti-communist John Birch Society, which fought against the civil rights movement and the United Nations. Charles and David have supported the Tea Party, a loosely organized group that aims to shrink the size of government and cut federal spending.
These are long-standing tenets for the Kochs. In 1980, David Koch ran for vice president on the Libertarian ticket, pledging to abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve System, welfare, minimum wage laws and federal agencies -- including the Department of Energy, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency.
What many people don’t know is how the Kochs’ anti-regulation political ideology has influenced the way they conduct business.
A Bloomberg Markets investigation has found that Koch Industries -- in addition to being involved in improper payments to win business in Africa, India and the Middle East -- has sold millions of dollars of petrochemical equipment to Iran, a country the U.S. identifies as a sponsor of global terrorism.
The ‘Koch Method’
Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban. Koch Industries units have also rigged prices with competitors, lied to regulators and repeatedly run afoul of environmental regulations, resulting in five criminal convictions since 1999 in the U.S. and Canada.
 
overgrowem

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Building the pipeline will take several years at least and will require several thousand skilled and unskilled laborers. Refining the oil will require labor. Maintaining the pipeline will require skilled labor.

These are shovel-ready jobs!
Click to expand...
Building the pipe line will take approx 2 year and produce approx.2 to 3K TEMPORARY jobs.The 35 jobs UB. cites are the permanent jobs expected, monitors, inspectors, etc..according to my readings. Malnt. will be rare while the line is new,and contracted to existing Maint. cos.creating very few jobs. the refines. are also up and running 24/7, again creating very few jobs.Gosh seems you knew the outline of everything I said. Guess it just slipped by me in your original post. My apologies. It does occur to me though, that legalization in even Alaska will create perm. jobs that dwarf in number of ALL the jobs created by the line and raise scads more in taxes.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
Sir, 'shovel ready jobs' are not skilled labor. They are called 'labor' and typically pay 'shit'.

Refining is not a 'labor' intensive process. Maintaining a pipeline is not a labor intensive job unless it breaks.

With wishful thinking like this, it is no wonder you are not respected.
Click to expand...
You sound like Obama's labor secretary, Dobbs.

Welding pipe is a skilled trade. Probably pays at least $30 an hour in direct wages. All of the construction jobs involved are skilled trades.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
You sound like Obama's labor secretary, Dobbs.

Welding pipe is a skilled trade. Probably pays at least $30 an hour in direct wages. All of the construction jobs involved are skilled trades.
Click to expand...
sounds like a ringing endorsement for the ARRA, which created and saved millions of jobs (by your logic).

not only did it creat and save millions of jobs, we got lots of really nice infrastructure out of it!
 
overgrowem

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Charles, 75, and David, 71, each worth about $20 billion, are prominent financial backers of groups that believe that excessive regulation is sapping the competitiveness of American business. They inherited their anti-government leanings from their father.
Abolishing Social Security
Fred was an early adviser to the founder of the anti-communist John Birch Society, which fought against the civil rights movement and the United Nations. Charles and David have supported the Tea Party, a loosely organized group that aims to shrink the size of government and cut federal spending.
These are long-standing tenets for the Kochs. In 1980, David Koch ran for vice president on the Libertarian ticket, pledging to abolish Social Security, the Federal Reserve System, welfare, minimum wage laws and federal agencies -- including the Department of Energy, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency.
What many people don’t know is how the Kochs’ anti-regulation political ideology has influenced the way they conduct business.
A Bloomberg Markets investigation has found that Koch Industries -- in addition to being involved in improper payments to win business in Africa, India and the Middle East -- has sold millions of dollars of petrochemical equipment to Iran, a country the U.S. identifies as a sponsor of global terrorism.
The ‘Koch Method’
Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban. Koch Industries units have also rigged prices with competitors, lied to regulators and repeatedly run afoul of environmental regulations, resulting in five criminal convictions since 1999 in the U.S. and Canada.
Click to expand...
The Koch political party,coming to a town near U.
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
So what?

When did how private businesses are run become the decision of the federal government? If it doesnt create enough jobs then they can shitcan it?? That makes less than no sense. Well, unless you are for big government central planning. They decide what big projects get done in America, you know, for the good of the people... Freedom? Fuck that, Americans cant handle that...
Click to expand...

yea buddy lets let private enterprise rule us .
FUCK THAT oil in a pipe being melted from sands ... leave it there ... just another way for private enterprise to give us all cancer and put us in the other private enterprise HOSPITALS look at who is diversified in prisons and hopitals and you find our REAL money...
this is a TAR SANDS play let canada run the pipe and put the oil in the altlantic OH wait NOONE needs this FUCKING OIL!!!! you ever boil oil crude??? its nasty shit
 
overgrowem

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
Sir, 'shovel ready jobs' are not skilled labor. They are called 'labor' and typically pay 'shit'.

Refining is not a 'labor' intensive process. Maintaining a pipeline is not a labor intensive job unless it breaks.

With wishful thinking like this, it is no wonder you are not respected.
Click to expand...
An adjustment in thinking is needed. Skilled or unskilled, all jobs on the line will be UNION, so nobody will be working on it and collecting food stamps.
 
overgrowem

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
You sound like Obama's labor secretary, Dobbs.

Welding pipe is a skilled trade. Probably pays at least $30 an hour in direct wages. All of the construction jobs involved are skilled trades.
Click to expand...
Just as an aside: Only the most skilled union welders will be used, working in the boonies their net per hour will prob. be closer to 75 or 80 dollars an hr. +rm. and board, for what that's worth.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
overgrowem said:
Just as an aside: Only the most skilled union welders will be used, working in the boonies their net per hour will prob. be closer to 75 or 80 dollars an hr. +rm. and board, for what that's worth.
Click to expand...
The majority of welds will be done by robotic welding machines. A lot of them. I think many of the jobs will be in Qaultiy control and compliance along with excavation.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
just like people think that the keystone will assist the US in jobs and oil. neither of which is true.
Click to expand...
Some people apparently think that pipeline will build and maintain itself, and the oil that flows through the self-erecting (that made me smile, I hope it was good for you too, Sky) pipeline will leave the world's oil supply unchanged. Rather an odd belief.

How did you come to have such a strange world-view, Sky?
 
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