War

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
They could be confined as a reserve force in western Ukraine, west of the Dnieper River and close to Poland, where support will move from Germany. They can send a dozen like the Brits and keep them parked in defensive positions on the border with Belarus and north of Kyiv. A dozen in by rail and then swap them out for another dozen more fresh ones later when the heavy maintenance cycle comes up. That would be my thinking, no danger of them falling into Russian hands and rail transporting them from Poland to near their deployment points should not be an issue. They only need a token force and a dozen at a time will do, it is unlikely the Russians would attack in their direction!
They could be used for that, but they aren't the best choice. It would be better i think for the US to talk to Germany and instead of supplying inappropriate equipment, to offer to buy Leopards to donate to Ukraine, to offset some of the costs for Germany...If they would go for that.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
They could be confined as a reserve force in western Ukraine, west of the Dnieper River and close to Poland, where support will move from Germany. They can send a dozen like the Brits and keep them parked in defensive positions on the border with Belarus and north of Kyiv. A dozen in by rail and then swap them out for another dozen more fresh ones later when the heavy maintenance cycle comes up. That would be my thinking, no danger of them falling into Russian hands and rail transporting them from Poland to near their deployment points should not be an issue. They only need a token force and a dozen at a time will do, it is unlikely the Russians would attack in their direction!
i dunno the belarus question as come up again....seems Kyiv and Minsk have been doing some back channeling as of late......

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
i don't think this is gonna happen......Leopards are actually well suited for Ukraine, not the Abram's......simple cause of the fuel they use....one uses if i am right a JetA and it's a guzzler, while the other uses Deasil (sp) which is more widely available in Ukraine....
IMHO the fucking behemoth is a dinosaur and needs such high levels of support and logistics so as to be nearly useless in many situations. This is but one shining example, how were these things suppose to operate in a European war, which was their primary purpose, if bridges and roads cannot take it's weight and it needs air force grade fuel? I adds to the complexity of logistics, shipping gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, even a B52 bomber could run on multiple grades of fuel FFS! America needs a Leopard equivalent for fast transport and allied support, as well as for it's own use and to compete with the leopard for markets in Europe. They only need to be able to defeat Russian tanks and take a hit from them, not much more and it is unlikely the Russians will be fielding any new tanks soon or in the foreseeable future.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
They could be used for that, but they aren't the best choice. It would be better i think for the US to talk to Germany and instead of supplying inappropriate equipment, to offer to buy Leopards to donate to Ukraine, to offset some of the costs for Germany...If they would go for that.
i think that would be a better option...think Neatherlands is offering up something like that now.....
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
IMHO the fucking behemoth is a dinosaur and needs such high levels of support and logistics so as to be nearly useless in many situations. This is but one shining example, how were these things suppose to operate in a European war, which was their primary purpose, if bridges and roads cannot take it's weight and it needs air force grade fuel? I adds to the complexity of logistics, shipping gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, even a B52 bomber could run on multiple grades of fuel FFS! America needs a Leopard equivalent for fast transport and allied support, as well as for it's own use and to compete with the leopard for markets in Europe. They only need to be able to defeat Russian tanks and take a hit from them, not much more and it is unlikely the Russians will be fielding any new tanks soon or in the foreseeable future.
i don't see the Russian putting out tanks, seems the sanctions are getting to that sector as well

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
They could be used for that, but they aren't the best choice. It would be better i think for the US to talk to Germany and instead of supplying inappropriate equipment, to offer to buy Leopards to donate to Ukraine, to offset some of the costs for Germany...If they would go for that.
I'm sure Joe tried it, I would, but the UK sent a dozen, so Uncle Sam can too, even if it is largely symbolic and they are confined west of the Dnieper River, defending say north of Kyiv and swap them out for another dozen by rail when the maintenance is due. Problem solved, Germany has 200 leopards in storage however, warehoused, so we are gonna try and pry some of them loose too. Canada has 100 Leopards and is unlikely to be attacked by Russia, so we could send the works and for all I know we could be.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
i don't think this is gonna happen......Leopards are actually well suited for Ukraine, not the Abram's......simple cause of the fuel they use....one uses if i am right a JetA and it's a guzzler, while the other uses Deasil (sp) which is more widely available in Ukraine....
think of it like “one riot, one Ranger”.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
You internet generals are silly and don't know the basics. The Abrams can run off a very wide variety of fuel, like diesel and JP8.....
i had to look that up, basically i didn't know...your right

What fuel does the Abrams tank use?


America's 1,500hp Main Battle Tank

The M1 was designed by Chrysler Defense in the late '70s, and manufactured by General Dynamics under government contract. Its 1,500hp Honeywell turbine engine can burn a variety of fuels including diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, and marine diesel.

that could make things interesting to say the least
 

Nope_49595933949

Well-Known Member
i had to look that up, basically i didn't know...your right

What fuel does the Abrams tank use?


America's 1,500hp Main Battle Tank

The M1 was designed by Chrysler Defense in the late '70s, and manufactured by General Dynamics under government contract. Its 1,500hp Honeywell turbine engine can burn a variety of fuels including diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, and marine diesel.

that could make things interesting to say the least
Most US military vehicles are like this.

Be better arm chair generals guys. This type of misinformation is too prevalent on the internet, do better, stop being a part of the misinformation crew.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Most US military vehicles are like this.

Be better arm chair generals guys. This type of misinformation is too prevalent on the internet, do better, stop being a part of the misinformation crew.
i try to keep informed as much as i can....true there are thing i can be dumb on, but i'm always itching to learn......

so now it comes down to logistics....

guess we'll see when it happens or not.....
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
IMHO the fucking behemoth is a dinosaur and needs such high levels of support and logistics so as to be nearly useless in many situations. This is but one shining example, how were these things suppose to operate in a European war, which was their primary purpose, if bridges and roads cannot take it's weight and it needs air force grade fuel? I adds to the complexity of logistics, shipping gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, even a B52 bomber could run on multiple grades of fuel FFS! America needs a Leopard equivalent for fast transport and allied support, as well as for it's own use and to compete with the leopard for markets in Europe. They only need to be able to defeat Russian tanks and take a hit from them, not much more and it is unlikely the Russians will be fielding any new tanks soon or in the foreseeable future.
this is a gross over simplification, but you can teach a man to work a sling in a day, and he can be proficient within a week...the same man to be a kinight would have to learn to ride, learn to use a sword both on his feet and from horseback, needs a sword, needs a horse, needs armor...all a slinger needs is a sling and some stones, and he can knock down knights all day
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
IMHO the fucking behemoth is a dinosaur and needs such high levels of support and logistics so as to be nearly useless in many situations. This is but one shining example, how were these things suppose to operate in a European war, which was their primary purpose, if bridges and roads cannot take it's weight and it needs air force grade fuel? I adds to the complexity of logistics, shipping gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, even a B52 bomber could run on multiple grades of fuel FFS! America needs a Leopard equivalent for fast transport and allied support, as well as for it's own use and to compete with the leopard for markets in Europe. They only need to be able to defeat Russian tanks and take a hit from them, not much more and it is unlikely the Russians will be fielding any new tanks soon or in the foreseeable future.
The US built their army assuming supremacy in the air. Tanks are pretty much obsolete in that scenario.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
The US built their army assuming supremacy in the air. Tanks are pretty much obsolete in that scenario.
I've been wondering about that. The russian's should have a vast advantage in the air, and they don't take advantage of it. i know Ukraine has a lot of anti-air defenses, but you would think the russians would be able to do a load of hit and run shit, flying too high to be hit until they drop their payload.
it makes me wonder what they're holding it back for.
 
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