There must be a shit load of atheists in America.

sso said:

no its not, its hard to be around religious people

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Only the ones who try to push it on you.

rolly187 said:

"Al-Hazen 965 -1038 is the person who first found the relationship between light source, lens and resultant image. That is why called as "Al-Hazen Theorem". He also explained how an eye can see. He said that we can only see when light falls on that object and reflect back to our eyes."
So since Muhammad died in 632, and this "Al-Hazen guy" is before Muhammad? and before Islam?

From wikipedia
"Science in the medieval Islamic world, also known as Islamic science or Arabic science, is the science developed and practiced in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age (c.750 CE - c.1258 CE). During this time, Indian, Iranian and especially Greek knowledge was translated into Arabic. These translations became a wellspring for scientific advances, by scientists from the Islamic civilization, during the Middle Ages."

Not all Muslims are ARABS you damn fool.
The arabian peninsula consists of Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain.
All these "arabs" are not even Islamic.
Thanks for making yourself look....well....dumb

Also the Quran says nothing about forcing women to be confined to certain rooms in the home, nor does it require ALL women to be veiled. Muhammad didnt treat his wife as a dog like most Islamic men do in our era. He treated her (he was originally married to a single woman who owned the "company" he worked for) with respect and took her voice into consideration on many occasions. It was the Islamic Fundamentalists (which exist in every religion), such as the Taliban, that enforced these extreme laws and brought back the barbaric law system of the past.

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Ok, I stand corrected...by a few hundred years. Fair play.

However, of course all arabs arent muslims, but the stuff came from arabian civilizations, not all of whom were muslim. There is no need to call me a "damn fool" I may have some historical misconceptions, which when corrected I try to take graciously, and we may disagree on many points, but friend, I am no fool. And there is no need for such talk.

And sure, al koran doesnt say all women must wear jilbobs or burkas, and it doesnt say women must be confined to a room, but doesnt your "yellow book" as its called in indonesia?

And yes, mohammed argued for womens rights. Didnt he take a 12 or 13 year old for a wife near his death? Doesnt that make him a pedophile?
(go ahead...get all steamy!)

And it sure didnt take long for his DIRECT disciples to write their own texts, start treating women like crap, and start a sunni shi'ite split that instigated 1300 years of bloodshed. (arguing about who was more right)

mindphuk said:

This is incorrect and has been discussed in many threads previously. Non-believer and atheist are synonyms. Atheism simply means lack of theism. If you aren't a theist, you are by definition an atheist. The problem comes from self-identification. People that don't believe in astrology don't call themselves non-astrologers. Atheist is an accusatory term created by theists. Agnosticism is about a different ontological question, that of knowledge. Theism and atheism are about belief, hence why non-belief makes you an atheist. Agnosticism is about knowledge and what if anything is knowable. They are related but different. The popular 'atheist' authors Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennet all say the same thing you do, that the theistic claim that there is a deity is not compelling so they are on the side of skepticism, but none of them make the positive claim that there absolutely is no god.

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No...sorry dude. Even the dictionaries disagree with you. was this "agreement" you speak of agreed upon by those with said beliefs or by a bunch of christians. Athiest and agnostic are not synonyms, and I dont care if you get a whole fraternity of wrong people to agree with you, they ARE different.

Thats a pretty funny statement...if you arent a thiest you are an athiest. It makes sense in latin, sure,but in their practical applications....not the same

Its kind of like saying "if you arent straight, then your gay" it doesnt take into account peopel who are bi, in to animals, have no sexual desire, like to fuck inanimate objects, or a chrnic masterbator....people come in all shades of options

Gonna have to agree with mindphuk on this one FF.

Filthy Phil said:

Ok, I stand corrected...by a few hundred years. Fair play.

However, of course all arabs arent muslims, but the stuff came from arabian civilizations, not all of whom were muslim. There is no need to call me a "damn fool" I may have some historical misconceptions, which when corrected I try to take graciously, and we may disagree on many points, but friend, I am no fool. And there is no need for such talk.

And sure, al koran doesnt say all women must wear jilbobs or burkas, and it doesnt say women must be confined to a room, but doesnt your "yellow book" as its called in indonesia?

And yes, mohammed argued for womens rights. Didnt he take a 12 or 13 year old for a wife near his death? Doesnt that make him a pedophile?
(go ahead...get all steamy!)

And it sure didnt take long for his DIRECT disciples to write their own texts, start treating women like crap, and start a sunni shi'ite split that instigated 1300 years of bloodshed. (arguing about who was more right)

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no disrespect ment bro, just get a little carried away when I speak, err i mean type.
I know close to nothing about the indonesia yellow book, im studying for a history final that is over the muslim culture as we type, thats the only reason I saw fit to comment.
Is the "yellow book" a islamic type text?

I agree with you that its weird and creepy for anyone to have an attraction towards anyone that much younger, but I (most of you all as well) were raised with western cultural beliefs, so I cant really relate to those cultures that think of that as there "norm".
I myself am Christian so MY book is the bible, so when you say YOUR "YELLOW BOOK", that leads me to believe that you think im muslim.

Islam: A short history is a great book that explains islam for what it really is and not what american reporters make you believe on the news, but they twist a lot of things up about our country as well (weed being bad).

RED1966- Everyone has there own right to believe whatever they want, thats whats great about america. No one has the right tho to push any religion or belief(atheism) on anyone. Its weird that there are so many threads about how god is b/s things of that nature, but theres not too many about people with a faith in god talking down upon those who dont believe. But then again im kinda new to the site so I very well could be wrong.
I have friends that dont believe in god, and its cool, i never pull a crusade on there ass and try to convert them.

All I know is that I don't ever remember those blasted athiests knocking on my door with their suits on and trying to fuck with me at my home during the daytime on my day off when I'm trying to relax and attempting to shove their fucking atheist litterature down upon me ever , but I'll bet we all know who does shit like that .

Filthy Phil said:

No...sorry dude. Even the dictionaries disagree with you. was this "agreement" you speak of agreed upon by those with said beliefs or by a bunch of christians. Athiest and agnostic are not synonyms, and I dont care if you get a whole fraternity of wrong people to agree with you, they ARE different.

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I never claimed atheist and agnostic are synonyms. Try re-reading.

Thats a pretty funny statement...if you arent a thiest you are an athiest. It makes sense in latin, sure,but in their practical applications....not the same

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of course it works in the practical sense. If you not a theist you are an atheist. Atheism is lack of belief in a deity. It doesn't say why you lack belief, it could be because you are naive about the concept like a baby or maybe you are merely unconvinced of the theistic arguments. Either way, that fits the broadest definitions of atheism, even in most dictionaries, which, BTW, are the the arbiters of proper usage but merely reflect common use.

Think about the word moral. The term for the absence of morality is amoral, not immoral just like the absence of theism is atheism. Immoral is negative morals and is a definite position. The closest we have for the term theism is anti-theistic. Atheist is not the same as anti-theist. You are describing the anti-theist when you discuss people that make a positive claim about the non-existence of a god. Very, very, very few people do this. They are a special subset of atheists.

Its kind of like saying "if you arent straight, then your gay" it doesnt take into account peopel who are bi, in to animals, have no sexual desire, like to fuck inanimate objects, or a chrnic masterbator....people come in all shades of options

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No it's not. Being gay is a specific category. There is no word for not being straight but we can use the same linguistic trick and call them a-straightists. As you correctly point out, the mere label of a-straightism doesn't tell you much about the person, just like calling someone an atheist doesn't tell you what they DO believe. Atheism has always been an accusation made by a theist. As Sam Harris points out, "It is worth noting that no one ever need identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, “atheism” is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma."

Do you agree that you can have a belief without complete knowledge on a subject? That is the essence of agnosticism and atheism. Atheism is about personal belief, i.e. does the theistic argument convince you enough to believe there is a god. If not, you are atheist. An agnostic is one that doesn't believe that the answer is knowable, so you can be a devout believer and still claim you are agnostic toward the question, "does god exist?" The vast majority of the modern atheists also make this distinction and most also are agnostic in this sense. Just watch some of the videos from The Atheist Experience or read Hitchens or Dawkins.

Pat the stoner said:

All I know is that I don't ever remember those blasted athiests knocking on my door with their suits on and trying to fuck with me at my home during the daytime on my day off when I'm trying to relax and attempting to shove their fucking atheist litterature down upon me ever , but I'll bet we all know who does shit like that .

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ya i think its easy to see whos blowing it a little out of proportion tho as well.
That ones that came to my house (which is absolutely annoying), left after I asked them to do so,(never told them about my thoughts or beliefs) while showing respect and not being rude in anyway or refusing to leave.

I think the whole idea of these crazy Christians yelling at you though the window or picketing outside your house because you have different ideas then them is a little old and out dated. I do understand how others could see the christian movement as a whole being a little forceful in America. but hey your American so you can choose to not let it effect you. Its just more open for you to view, not shoved down your throat.

Edit: whats wrong with them wearing suits? haha

You know what we should all put on suits and go door to door with briefcases full of weed and just ask people to try it , maybe hand out some NORML literature a copy of High Times and some rolling papers , roach clips whatever just to show them (speaking personally) what saved me . If it wasn't for the weed I don't know what I would do but it definetly changed my life and I so do wish I could share it with so many people who might benefit by it .


i

hazorazo said:

The scientific people are taking over....the religious people have not figured it out yet, because they do not believe in science, lol. I find it funny when someone believes in a big bearded man in the clouds, and yet fails to recognize scientific research.

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Really? Religious people don't believe in science? Wow, you obviously don't know shit about religion (no offense).

mindphuk said:

I never claimed atheist and agnostic are synonyms. Try re-reading.
of course it works in the practical sense. If you not a theist you are an atheist. Atheism is lack of belief in a deity. It doesn't say why you lack belief, it could be because you are naive about the concept like a baby or maybe you are merely unconvinced of the theistic arguments. Either way, that fits the broadest definitions of atheism, even in most dictionaries, which, BTW, are the the arbiters of proper usage but merely reflect common use.
Think about the word moral. The term for the absence of morality is amoral, not immoral just like the absence of theism is atheism. Immoral is negative morals and is a definite position. The closest we have for the term theism is anti-theistic. Atheist is not the same as anti-theist. You are describing the anti-theist when you discuss people that make a positive claim about the non-existence of a god. Very, very, very few people do this. They are a special subset of atheists.
No it's not. Being gay is a specific category. There is no word for not being straight but we can use the same linguistic trick and call them a-straightists. As you correctly point out, the mere label of a-straightism doesn't tell you much about the person, just like calling someone an atheist doesn't tell you what they DO believe. Atheism has always been an accusation made by a theist. As Sam Harris points out, "It is worth noting that no one ever need identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, “atheism” is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma."

Do you agree that you can have a belief without complete knowledge on a subject? That is the essence of agnosticism and atheism. Atheism is about personal belief, i.e. does the theistic argument convince you enough to believe there is a god. If not, you are atheist. An agnostic is one that doesn't believe that the answer is knowable, so you can be a devout believer and still claim you are agnostic toward the question, "does god exist?" The vast majority of the modern atheists also make this distinction and most also are agnostic in this sense. Just watch some of the videos from The Atheist Experience or read Hitchens or Dawkins.

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I like you. You spin an intricately well worded and reasoned web, what you say has much validity. We do address the symantics of latin like I said (the prefix "a" meaning without) however given your argument the worth of the symantic differences would be too insognificant to argue over. Ill accent to your statement.

PrezDickie said:

We could use a lot more atheists in america to spread some more logic and common sense around, and if your noticing shows that mock religion its most likely because getting a show made, and aired on tv is difficult and its mostly above average IQ individuals who can make it, and above average individuals tend to be atheists.
and if i had to guess i'd say you love of being wrong is most likely what lead you to religion in the first place

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Yes, because you're way more intelligent then me lol. You obviously jumped the gun on saying I'm religious. You make a horrible image for atheists....

Filthy Phil said:

Exactly. We dont care if you think we're dumb for being athiest, just dont force christian policy on us...

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I would never forced my beliefs on anyone (if I had any).... But don't you think it's very rude for people to think of religious people as "stupid" and "retarded"?

And again, I don't think atheists are stupid.

sso said:

funnily, thats what the dude said that came to my door,wanting me to believe in the bible.

but fine, take some stone age book seriously

but, yes, im terribly sorry, most people really dont like people calling them stupid

true or not

though, actually , when i think about it, being called a close minded fool from such as he and you, is sorta, more of a compliment

(very few circles where id be called closeminded im savoring the rarity of it )

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Well you're a dick head for sure, no doubt about that. Having beliefs doesn't make someone stupid....dumbass.

stealthman08 said:

I would never forced my beliefs on anyone (if I had any).... But don't you think it's very rude for people to think of religious people as "stupid" and "retarded"?

And again, I don't think atheists are stupid.

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Oh, absolutely its rude...but in my oppinion also deserved. You may have never forced your beliefs directly, but (and no animosity intended) if your chriatian you contribute to the down your throat machinery by bringing "justification" to their cause. And sure, its rude...but again, if I said I believed in the boogeyman, you might think I was retarded.(not in the litteral sense)

rolly187 said:

no disrespect ment bro, just get a little carried away when I speak, err i mean type.
I know close to nothing about the indonesia yellow book, im studying for a history final that is over the muslim culture as we type, thats the only reason I saw fit to comment.
Is the "yellow book" a islamic type text?

I agree with you that its weird and creepy for anyone to have an attraction towards anyone that much younger, but I (most of you all as well) were raised with western cultural beliefs, so I cant really relate to those cultures that think of that as there "norm".
I myself am Christian so MY book is the bible, so when you say YOUR "YELLOW BOOK", that leads me to believe that you think im muslim.

Islam: A short history is a great book that explains islam for what it really is and not what american reporters make you believe on the news, but they twist a lot of things up about our country as well (weed being bad).

RED1966- Everyone has there own right to believe whatever they want, thats whats great about america. No one has the right tho to push any religion or belief(atheism) on anyone. Its weird that there are so many threads about how god is b/s things of that nature, but theres not too many about people with a faith in god talking down upon those who dont believe. But then again im kinda new to the site so I very well could be wrong.
I have friends that dont believe in god, and its cool, i never pull a crusade on there ass and try to convert them.

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Yes, the yellow book is a collection of.dogma left by the followers of muhammed, much like mathew, mark, luke, and john (the books) in the bible. They are others accounts and interpretations of jesus. The yellow book if I remember correctly is for women, a compilation of dogma and.rules for.women. I forget the other book, what they call it, but it is the source of all things muslim NOT addressed in the koran. Again, it is a compilation of dogma from muha km eds followers. (which really is a LOT)
I have a fair understanding of islam, my muslim name is abduhl rachman, I had to "convert" from agnostic to muslim to both marry my wife and show respect to her parents. Neither of us are really muslim though. But I still have my koran and prayer mat

I thought you were muslim because of the deffensive poaition you took for islam, a misconception on my part.

Funny thing is, my middle name is martel from charles martel, a french general who stopped the moorish(islamic) invasion from spain into france and the rest of europe. The general who he fought against was abdul rachman(my "muslim" name) and its pure coincidence that the imam chose that name for me....kinda funny

When you take a Muslim name, does it have to be of Arabic origin? Could it be, say, Biff? cn

stealthman08 said:

Well you're a dick head for sure, no doubt about that. Having beliefs doesn't make someone stupid....dumbass.

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Man stealthy...youre a pretty rude person! You keep making direct insults at others... If you are correct your argument should be enough. Contribute something aside from name calling please or I.ll have to call you a turd-faced gorilla. Seriously...I'll do it!

cannabineer said:

When you take a Muslim name, does it have to be of Arabic origin? Could it be, say, Biff? cn

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Hahahaha...yeah, it does. I was thinking Muhammed Ali....but I couldnt keep a straight enough face to propose it. Even more than taking an arabic based name, you have to speak in arabic while you covert...."Ash hadu allah bismilla, wa ash hadu muammed blah blah blahtur lao luuu" I dont remember it all. I had to do the whole song and dance which included learning to read arabic symbols. I got like half way through being able to read and just stopped.... I fealt I had proved enough by that point

My mother is a fundementalist christian, she wasnt very happy about my "conversion" hahahaha

Filthy Phil said:

Hahahaha...yeah, it does. I was thinking Muhammed Ali....but I couldnt keep a straight enough face to propose it. Even more than taking an arabic based name, you have to speak in arabic while you covert...."Ash hadu allah bismilla, wa ash hadu muammed blah blah blahtur lao luuu" I dont remember it all. I had to do the whole song and dance which included learning to read arabic symbols. I got like half way through being able to read and just stopped.... I fealt I had proved enough by that point

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Sounds remarkably like a bar-mitzvah! But don't TELL them that! ~grin~ cn