trayvan martin

[cliffey501]

what if he saw the gun becuase Z pulled it out and while pointing the gun at him says stay where you are .. .. . . . . . . .he wasnt a cop martin knew that

my flight or flight would make me hit him too and i might be dead . . . . . .wouldnt change the agressor in the situation

Well since you were talking human nature and how people tend to repeat past behaviours.Zimmerman patrolled the neighborhood for 7 yrs.Phoned the police like 47 times or something.Theres even a couple in there were his is following the suspects at a safe distance and informing dispatchers of the suspects locations.Not once did he ever try to apprehend/arrest/detain anyone.Never pulled his gun out,never put hands on anyone,etc.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Well since you were talking human nature and how people tend to repeat past behaviours.Zimmerman patrolled the neighborhood for 7 yrs.Phoned the police like 47 times or something.Theres even a couple in there were his is following the suspects at a safe distance and informing dispatchers of the suspects locations.Not once did he ever try to apprehend/arrest/detain anyone.Never pulled his gun out,never put hands on anyone,etc.

well that is either proof that he knew exactly what he was doing wrong(getting out of the car) and that he made some mistakes knowingly and or that it he truely was in fear for his life . . ..if you take this information as concrete truth then you have to take his violent history with him too and neither really work for him as combined character and personality traits . .. . . " hes calm most of the time and some time looses it and then he looses control and violence happens". . .. . . ?????

 

[Harrekin]

murder 2 does seem like its gonna be a hard one to get . .. . . . . . .just because it is inevitable doesnt make it ok . . . . . . .

I never said it did, but we're not allowed carry firearms in public nor have a crazy law like SYG so killing is nearly always considered erong. It's totally stupid to legislate for specific scenarios that count as self defence which legally give you the right to murder.

I will be honest and say tho, if there's less guns then there'll be more stabbings.

 

[UncleBuck]

However, if the shoe were on the other foot and one of these folks who are ready to hang Zimmerman already were in a similar position, I'm sure the tune would be much different.

zimmerman is getting his day in court, that's fair.

funny how when i did a different iteration of this question but supposed your son were the victim of zimmerman style vigilantism you shrugged it off and said it could never happen.

LOL!

biased much?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

I never said it did, but we're not allowed carry firearms in public nor have a crazy law like SYG so killing is nearly always considered erong. It's totally stupid to legislate for specific scenarios that count as self defence which legally give you the right to murder.

I will be honest and say tho, if there's less guns then there'll be more stabbings.

it truelly is a wierd place sometimes here in the states . . . .. 20-30 years ago most states had good Samaritan laws where you were supposed to help others now we have SYG laws . . . very sad indeed

 

[UncleBuck]

Would you have Zimmerman, or any human being for that matter, wait until their injuries are more severe before they start defending themselves? Dude, this is so assinine, I can't even begin to tell you...........

so if someone steps on my foot in passing i can shoot them dead, since the extent of the injuries matter not?

i can go up, confront someone, start a fight, let them pull a few hairs out of my had and scratch me a little, then start firing away in self defense?

sorry, that's not how "stand your ground" works.

 

[UncleBuck]

I see no supporter of Zimmerman can answer the question as to why he did not return back to his truck after he said "ok" to not follow. Can I now just follow people around and then shoot them dead if they try to fight or confront me for following them.???

the other thing they refuse to answer is why zimm was supposedly "looking for an address" where no address existed in a place where he lived for 5 years and regularly patrolled.

they prefer to point out that chasing down kids and shooting them is just good self defense behavior.

 

[UncleBuck]

I definately see Zim losing the civil lawsuit that will come. The criminal case is a whole different story. I feel that the way it sits now, it will come down to jury selection.

i'm thinking they might have to go to a new venue for an impartial jury at this point.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

so if someone steps on my foot in passing i can shoot them dead, since the extent of the injuries matter not?

i can go up, confront someone, start a fight, let them pull a few hairs out of my had and scratch me a little, then start firing away in self defense?

sorry, that's not how "stand your ground" works.

or self defense laws . .. . they are not as black and white as that

to claim self defense you have to be able to remove all doubt that you could possibly have been a aggressor or directly repsosnible for the situation . . .. .other wise it is not self defense . . . . . other wise its provocation and your intent and mindset will be included to illuminate the reason why you choose to take the actions you did

is this mind of thinking off. . . . . .

at this point harriken and doc are making some good points and id like to know what you think?

 

[UncleBuck]

...he told 911 he wanted the police to phone him when they arrived...

funny little fact you bring up there.

the fact that zimm told the dispatch to have police phone him for his location, rather than meeting them where he told them his truck was parked, tells me that zimm was gonna go out searching for martin, which is exactly what happened.

he hangs up with 911, goes searching for martin, finds him about a minute and a half later, and about a minute after that martin is dead.

not exactly the conduct you would expect from someone with concealed carry, to go out looking for a confrontation. kinda nullifies self defense when you go out looking for someone who is already running away from you.

 

[cliffey501]

well that is either proof that he knew exactly what he was doing wrong(getting out of the car) and that he made some mistakes knowingly and or that it he truely was in fear for his life . . ..if you take this information as concrete truth then you have to take his violent history with him too and neither really work for him as combined character and personality traits . .. . . " hes calm most of the time and some time looses it and then he looses control and violence happens". . .. . . ?????

Then you also have to take into account trayvons past as well.Swinging on a bus driver,suspected bulglary tools and stolen jewelry,trouble in school.I mean in my view this could have been avoided in two ways.1 zimmerman could have stayed in his truck.2 trayvon could have just went home.Both could have left the area both chose not to.

 

[UncleBuck]

No your right trayvon had every right to be hanging out but zimmy should have went the fuck home.LOL heres a little tip you don't want someone watching you dont be in a neighborhood with a giant neighborhood watch sign on the gate.

watch = chase?

 

[cliffey501]

funny little fact you bring up there.

the fact that zimm told the dispatch to have police phone him for his location, rather than meeting them where he told them his truck was parked, tells me that zimm was gonna go out searching for martin, which is exactly what happened.

he hangs up with 911, goes searching for martin, finds him about a minute and a half later, and about a minute after that martin is dead.

not exactly the conduct you would expect from someone with concealed carry, to go out looking for a confrontation. kinda nullifies self defense when you go out looking for someone who is already running away from you.

Goes searching for martin where? 100 feet from his truck? martin ran towards the back entrance if he were searching for him he would have went towards the back.

 

[UncleBuck]

So he was reported to 911 as a walking person? No he was reported as a supsicious person.He never pursued trayvon at all period.You can hear it in the 911 tape theres no heavy breathing to indicate he was running.Trayvon had lots of time to go home but he didn't he chose to come back and confront zim about following him.What if zim happened to be an undercover cop? Trayvon still would have swung on him?

in the 911 tpe, it was reported that he ran away from zimmerman. you can hear zimmerman get out of his truck and give chase for about 20 seconds as evidenced by the wind hitting his phone mic.

martin had no obligation to return home and kept talking on the phone to his girlfriend when zimmerman then confronted him (see how you have this the wrong way around?) according to the only testimony we're going to get.

chase someone, they run away, you go find them again...and then claim self defense? LOL! no.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

ran towards his house away from the creepy guy trying not to get into a sitution

 

[UncleBuck]

If that were the case he would have went towards the back entrance.That were martin was supposedly running.

My guess would be martin ran south(towards his home and back entrance) either down the street or in behind the town homes.I would also bet it was more likely he ran behind the town homes because zimmerman got out of his truck to see where he was going.If he had ran down the street zim would have stayed in his car.He supposedly pursues for roughly 20 seconds before being told not to.By now im guessing zims in the cut threw.He has also lost trayvon by this point.Zim thinks he's going for the back entrance so he proceeds through the cut threw.So he can get a visual at the back entance(located behind trayvons home).He stands there while completing the 911 call so that he can report if he gets a visual on the suspect on the back gate.On his way back to his truck trayvon comes north up the walkway and confronts zim.

doesn't fit with the timeline or the testimony.

martin got a second call from his GF and said "i think i lost him" at about the time zimm gets done with the 911 call. about a minute and a half passes before they meet again.

zimm has a history of telling the police about how "these assholes always get away" through the back entrance. chances are he took that minute and a half to cut through the gap in the houses just south of the scene of the crime and cut martin off. at which point they meet again, martin asks "why are you following me?", zimm shouts back, and a confrontation ensues, all instigated by zimmerman (remember, martin had already RUN AWAY and zimm told the cops to phone him for his location, because he wasn't looking for any address, that story is proven bullshit).

 

[UncleBuck]

I already said what i thought happened about 100 pages back now.My point Im making here is that zimmerman didnt pursue him.I think personally he went to see if martin was going to run out the back gate.On the way back to his truck martin confronts him about being watched/followed/whatever zimmerman goes to grab his phone and call police.As he goes for his phone he mistakenly exposes his gun(these are things im putting together in my own mind).Trayvon sees the gun and reacts(hitting him climbing ontop of him).Zimmerman not realizing he's exposed his gun takes this as an unprovoked attack and fires in self defence.

that's the most retarded thing i have heard to date.

zimm pursued martin. martin already ran away. martin was not looking for a fight, zimm was.

 

[cliffey501]

that's the most retarded thing i have heard to date.

zimm pursued martin. martin already ran away. martin was not looking for a fight, zimm was.

Your right a good clear indication you are not looking for a fight is to punch someone squarely in the nose.

 

[UncleBuck]

Goes searching for martin where?

through the gap in the houses to cut off martin from the back entrance.

these assholes were always getting away, can't have that.

 

[UncleBuck]

Your right a good clear indication you are not looking for a fight is to punch someone squarely in the nose.

that's a good way to defend yourself when you are running away from someone that keeps following you and stalking you.