trayvan martin

[Samwell Seed Well]

Thats what is wrong ((Doc ) with most of this thread . It screams guilty until proven
innocent. Their are very few people on here that have met me. Yet I have been called a racist many times. Yet the funny thing is my wife an I are NOT the same nationality or color.

you mean like how zimmerman made martin for a criminal by looking at him . . . . . . .

there is a line in the sand ...............................one side is acceptable behavior ..............................the others side not acceptable

and there is a grey area where intent context and environment and character weighted to see how acceptable/non acceptable your behavior is . . . . . . .

Zimmerman was a adult who choose to prey on martin because of his own delusional paranoia and using fear as a reason to oppress and control or confront in a situation that ends up causing the death of someone is wrong and imho criminally negligent . . . .could have been anyone . .. .and i would think Z would be responsible . . .. . . his self delusions/paranoia are not an excuse to do what he did

people have to be responsibly for there actions . . . . not oh shit that happened after the fact . . . .that is not an excuse to excuse his action

 

[Stillbuzzin]

you mean like how zimmerman made martin for a criminal by looking at him . . . . . . .

there is a line in the sand ...............................one side is acceptable behavior ..............................the others side not acceptable

and there is a grey area where intent context and environment and character weighted to see how acceptable/non acceptable your behavior is . . . . . . .

Zimmerman was a adult who choose to prey on martin because of his own delusional paranoia and using fear as a reason to oppress and control or confront in a situation that ends up causing the death of someone is wrong and imho criminally negligent . . . .could have been anyone . .. .and i would think Z would be responsible . . .. . . his self delusions/paranoia are not an excuse to do what he did

people have to be responsibly for there actions . . . . not oh shit that happened after the fact . . . .that is not an excuse to excuse his action

I didnt realize you were their. I owe you an apology. I truly mean that.

 

[doc111]

It appears to me that you and a few others in this thread are ready to convict Zimmerman. Without seeing all the evidence, I might add! I've been accused of defending Zimmerman (I'd really like someone to show me anywhere that I've said "Trayvon deserved it" or that "I think Zimmerman is innocent"; I've NEVER said either of these things). If waiting until we have all the evidence is "defending" Zimmerman him, then I suppose I'm guilty as charged. I have a REAL problem with people equating someone's past history with guilt. I tried playing Devil's advocate with another member earlier who didn't want to play. Let's see if you will play along. Let's say you live in a state without MMJ laws but you are a grower. Let's say you have been arrested or accused of cultivating cannabis in the past. Your neighbors/friends and the local police know this. Say a skunk crawls under your house and one of your "neighbors" decides to call the police to report the "suspicious odor" coming from your house. Now, the police show up to "investigate" this "suspicious odor". Should they get a warrant, or because you have a "history" of cultivation should they just snatch you up and take you into custody without due process? I mean, you have a "history" of cultivating cannabis. You're obviously guilty, right?

Yes, I've said before, it's very possible y'all are correct about Zimmerman and perhaps he did stalk and kill that kid in cold blood. But it's also possible that the shit went down pretty much like he says it did, which is why we're even having a debate! Since it is possible, even IF it is an extraordinarily remote one, that he was attacked first and had to defend himself, then I will give him the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers. The only thing I've said that could really be construed as defending the guy is that I think there isn't enough evidence to convict him of murder 2, so I think he will either walk or get a slap on the wrist. If that's what you guys consider "defending" Zimmerman, then, YES! I suppose I'm guilty as charged.

hes not gonna go to jail for defensding himself . .. . . . .

he is going to jail because he choose to shoot someone in a situation he created . . . .you reallly are blinded by your sense of bureaucracy.

if you go looking for a fight . . .your intent upon beginning your search strips you of any self defense as you choose to engage the situation and are expected to be a responsible adult and part of those responsibilities is accepting that your action may lead to violence and harm to your self and others. .. . the after the fact it was self defense claiming and all the other stories that have come from him and his camp reek of trying to find a lawful excuse to what he knows he choose to do . . . .. .

the more he lies the longer he stays in . . . . .. be a man and support life dont take it . .. .

You are ASSuming an awful lot with that statement. You ASSume Zimmerman went looking for a fight. I have yet to see this proof. This whole case more or less hinges on who assaulted who first. The prosecution has admitted that they don't know who started what. So, if they don't know then how the fuck can anybody in here claim that they know what's up? I'm sure they will manufacture motive and a nice "theory" to go along with it, sort of like they did with Casey Anthony (this is what prosecutors do in the absence of evidence). Maybe these theories will be correct or maybe they will be hard for the jury to grasp (kinda like Casey Anthony). Nobody REALLY knows what happened here. That is why we are STILL having this debate.

BTW, I posed a hypothetical to you (see red print above). What's wrong? Would something like the presumption of YOUR guilt simply based on your past history bother you? Or would you be ok being locked up and convicted without due process? Please answer the questions.

 

[doc111]

I didnt realize you were their. I owe you an apology. I truly mean that.

lol! The prosecution has been looking for Samwell! They need all the eyewitness testimony they can get if they are going to have any hope of putting Zimmerman away.

 

[desert dude]

how many times have you stated in this thread "zimmerman walks" in between rinsing out your mouth with dershowitz's smegma-ridden cock?

Saying that "Zimmerman walks" is simply a statement of the facts of the case. Sort of like what Dershowitz said. The affidavit of probable cause supports the claim of self defense. If the prosecution has some damning evidence on Zimmerman, why was their PC affidavit so weak? If Dersh is correct, the judge will throw dismiss. Why would Dersh make the statements that he has made, is he in on the conspiracy too?

 

[desert dude]

lol! The prosecution has been looking for Samwell! They need all the eyewitness testimony they can get if they are going to have any hope of putting Zimmerman away.

The prospect of Samwell testifying would be worth seeing this go to trial. That would be hilarious!

 

[londonfog]

So a person has to have "life threatening" injuries before they are able to defend themselves? lmfao!!!!!!! What's wrong with this picture?

whats wrong with this picture is had Zimmerman not followed and stalked Trayvon he would not had to defend himself from someone that thought Zimm to be a pervert or something. How are you defending yourself when you are the one at fault ??? When the 911 operator advise him to NOT FOLLOW..Zimm said "ok" in which he should have returned to his truck. Whats wrong with this picture is... if you and I are in Florida and me having a CCW that is recognize in Florida started to follow you around at night...You better not confront me for following you or I can shoot you dead. You keep missing a key fact on your defense of Zimm "the woman beater"...had he returned back to his truck and wait for the real police this would have never happened...He was told not to follow, but he did. Now a 17 year old boy is dead because Zimmerman assumed that this child was up to no good, which was a false assumption. Now you have to ask yourself the question on why did Zimmerman think this child was up to no good when he did not see him do anything wrong ???? Why did he keep following when he was told not to ???? Why did he seek confrontation when it is not his job to do such ??? Police are trained for this very reason. You said you had training as first response personal, does Zimmerman look like he suffered near death injuries ????

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

i understand but i just dont see it your way you do

people are important not laws, laws help people put order into there life . .. . some yahoo starts taking the law into his own hands and this is what happens . . .. . .do we as a nation want to condone the provocation of incidents like this where ever there is crime? and i just dont think its the message we want to send our children . . . . . . . . .or the world about how america values the life of its citizens . . . . . . . . .

my stance is life . . your stance is the dust hasnt settled yet . . . . .we just wont agree .. . . . im not a fence sitter. . . .i make choices and those choices can be changed just like life is capricious so is my understanding of the world . . . ..the point that Z was guilty of negligence was the second he left his car everything else was a result of that action.

. . . . .. . . . . his history or violence and delusion is what i think about and it has nothing to do with being guilty of murder its guilty of self delusion that cause a deathand people need to know that your fears are not rational to pursue/follow/stalk people and antagonize these kinds of situations. . .. . but imo you only care about what his lawyer or the PA can prove/disprove . .. . . . . .who cares about lawyers. .. . . . there are things more important in this world

 

[doc111]

Saying that "Zimmerman walks" is simply a statement of the facts of the case. Sort of like what Dershowitz said. The affidavit of probable cause supports the claim of self defense. If the prosecution has some damning evidence on Zimmerman, why was their PC affidavit so weak? If Dersh is correct, the judge will throw dismiss. Why would Dersh make the statements that he has made, is he in on the conspiracy too?

Evidently prominent legal experts don't know what the fuck they are talking about either my friend. We are all just "dumb racists" who "don't get it". Forget, due process. Forget the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Forget probable cause, evidence, eyewitness testimony......forget all that shit. It doesn't mean a thing because he's obviously guilty, so why should we even waste the money on a trial?

/sarcasm

However, if the shoe were on the other foot and one of these folks who are ready to hang Zimmerman already were in a similar position, I'm sure the tune would be much different.

 

[afrawfraw]

Also classical symptoms of a neighborhood watchman.

No, they are not. A dog is not a threat. A van is not a threat. A women who you don't know, is not a threat. Why don't you read a little on the records and see why he's calling so often, thanks.

 

[afrawfraw]

i understand but i just dont see it your way you do

people are important not laws, laws help people put order into there life . .. . some yahoo starts taking the law into his own hands and this is what happens . . .. . .do we as a nation want to condone the provocation of incidents like this where ever there is crime? and i just dont think its the message we want to send our children . . . . . . . . .or the world about how america values the life of its citizens . . . . . . . . .

my stance is life . . your stance is the dust hasnt settled yet . . . . .we just wont agree .. . . . im not a fence sitter. . . .i make choices and those choices can be changed just like life is capricious so is my understanding of the world . . . ..the point that Z was guilty of negligence was the second he left his car everything else was a result of that action.

. . . . .. . . . . his history or violence and delusion is what i think about and it has nothing to do with being guilty of murder its guilty of self delusion that cause a deathand people need to know that your fears are not rational to pursue/follow/stalk people and antagonize these kinds of situations. . .. . but imo you only care about what his lawyer or the PA can prove/disprove . .. . . . . .who cares about lawyers. .. . . . there are things more important in this world

Exactly. This was no random encounter. There is more to the story. Human nature is human nature. Zimmerman acted with anger and frustration. This is clear from the evidence. My biggest fear is AFTER the evidence is presented, the buddy buddy Florida courts might still let him off. Maybe Florida will burn like L.A. but I doubt it.

 

[afrawfraw]

Also classical symptoms of a neighborhood watchman.

Define Watchman for me.

 

[doc111]

whats wrong with this picture is had Zimmerman not followed and stalked Trayvon he would not had to defend himself from someone that thought Zimm to be a pervert or something. How are you defending yourself when you are the one at fault ??? When the 911 operator advise him to NOT FOLLOW..Zimm said "ok" in which he should have returned to his truck. Whats wrong with this picture is... if you and I are in Florida and me having a CCW that is recognize in Florida started to follow you around at night...You better not confront me for following you or I can shoot you dead. You keep missing a key fact on your defense of Zimm "the woman beater"...had he returned back to his truck and wait for the real police this would have never happened...He was told not to follow, but he did. Now a 17 year old boy is dead because Zimmerman assumed that this child was up to no good, which was a false assumption. Now you have to ask yourself the question on why did Zimmerman think this child was up to no good when he did not see him do anything wrong ???? Why did he keep following when he was told not to ???? Why did he seek confrontation when it is not his job to do such ??? Police are trained for this very reason. You said you had training as first response personal, does Zimmerman look like he suffered near death injuries ????

lol! No I don't have "training as a first response personal", I am a retired firefighter/paramedic with 15 years experience, plus another 8 years as a combat medic. I'd say I have some "training". It doesn't matter that his injuries weren't life threatening at that point. Would you have Zimmerman, or any human being for that matter, wait until their injuries are more severe before they start defending themselves? Dude, this is so assinine, I can't even begin to tell you...........

i understand but i just dont see it your way you do

people are important not laws, laws help people put order into there life . .. . some yahoo starts taking the law into his own hands and this is what happens . . .. . .do we as a nation want to condone the provocation of incidents like this where ever there is crime? and i just dont think its the message we want to send our children . . . . . . . . .or the world about how america values the life of its citizens . . . . . . . . .

my stance is life . . your stance is the dust hasnt settled yet . . . . .we just wont agree .. . . . im not a fence sitter. . . .i make choices and those choices can be changed just like life is capricious so is my understanding of the world . . . ..the point that Z was guilty of negligence was the second he left his car everyhting else was a result of that action.

. . . . .. . . . . his history or violence and delusion is what i think about and it has nothing to do with being guilty of murder its guilty of self delusion that cause a death people need to knwo that your fears are not rational to pursue/follow/stalk people . . .. . but imo you only care about what his lawyer or the PA can prove/disprove . .. . . . . .who cares about lawyers. .. . . . there are things more important in this world

What his lawyer can "prove/disprove" is really important at this point, don't ya think? His freedom hangs in the balance. I'd say that's a pretty big fucking deal bro! And I'd say the law serves more of a purpose than just to bring order. It also helps protect potentially innocent people from being imprisoned/put to death. Many people say Trayvon had every right to be where he was at and doing what he was doing, yet Zimmerman doesn't have this same right? It doesn't work that way my friend. I agree, some horrible choices were made that night on BOTH SIDES! Unfortunately, it led to the death of a young man. It's tragic. You REALLY should study up on the law a little bit and maybe you'll understand why it's so important to us in this country. BTW, you never did play along with my hypothetical. Did you even read it?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

lol! The prosecution has been looking for Samwell! They need all the eyewitness testimony they can get if they are going to have any hope of putting Zimmerman away.

all my opinions are based on human behavior vs your so called eyewitness evidnce or the story from the killer himself with a history of comminting violence felonies and gettign away with it

your blind to justice . .as you see justice as being blind . .. . the court system in this country is a facade and only serves to put people to work for jails .. . . . . they could care less about justice . . . . . .how many hours have you spent in jail for a victomless crime . . . .i have spent many hours in court room listening and observving. . . .DUIs and drug charges get more time then violent offenders . . . .one guy who was in the navy handcuffed a 12 years old girl and restrained her in the middle of the street with a gun because he thought she was the one ringing his door bell . . .judge gave him 3 moths of anger management . . .. . . he has a history of violence too but he is in the navy so he got away with it, very next person, a young women, got 10 days in a jail for driving on licensed suspended in 3rd degree

i could go on and on . . . i do not trust the courts

i trust human behavior . . .. . and their repeat behaviors

not the spin they put on for all others like there facebook page

 

[doc111]

all my opinions are based on human behavior vs your so called eyewitness evidnce or the story from the killer himself with a history of comminting violence felonies and gettign away with it

your blind to justice . .as you see justice as being blind . .. . the court system in this country is a facade and only serves to put people to work for jails .. . . . . they could care less about justice . . . . . .how many hours have you spent in jail for a victomless crime . . . .i have spent many hours in court room listening and observving. . . .DUIs and drug charges get more time then violent offenders . . . .one guy who was in the navy handcuffed a 12 years old girl and restrained her in the middle of the street with a gun because he thought she was the one ringing his door bell . . .judge gave him 3 moths of anger management . . .. . . he has a history of violence too but he is in the navy so he got away with it, very next person, a young women, got 10 days in a jail for driving on licensed suspended in 3rd degree

i could go on and on . . . i do not trust the courts

i trust human behavior . . .. . and their repeat behaviors

not the spin they put on for all others like there facebook page

I never said the justice system is perfect. Far from it, but it's the best we've got. Better than "mob justice". So, if our court system is so fucked and can't be trusted, then why even bother with a trial? Why not just take the guy out back and hang him? You seem to be implying that YOUR own judgement is superior to the court system. Is that a fair assessment? BTW, this is the THIRD time I've asked you about the hypothetical I posed to you. What's wrong? Afraid to play along?

 

[londonfog]

I see no supporter of Zimmerman can answer the question as to why he did not return back to his truck after he said "ok" to not follow. Can I now just follow people around and then shoot them dead if they try to fight or confront me for following them.???

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

lol! No I don't have "training as a first response personal", I am a retired firefighter/paramedic with 15 years experience, plus another 8 years as a combat medic. I'd say I have some "training". It doesn't matter that his injuries weren't life threatening at that point. Would you have Zimmerman, or any human being for that matter, wait until their injuries are more severe before they start defending themselves? Dude, this is so assinine, I can't even begin to tell you...........

What his lawyer can "prove/disprove" is really important at this point, don't ya think? His freedom hangs in the balance. I'd say that's a pretty big fucking deal bro! And I'd say the law serves more of a purpose than just to bring order. It also helps protect potentially innocent people from being imprisoned/put to death. Many people say Trayvon had every right to be where he was at and doing what he was doing, yet Zimmerman doesn't have this same right? It doesn't work that way my friend. I agree, some horrible choices were made that night on BOTH SIDES! Unfortunately, it led to the death of a young man. It's tragic. You REALLY should study up on the law a little bit and maybe you'll understand why it's so important to us in this country. BTW, you never did play along with my hypothetical. Did you even read it?

to protect and serve has been taken off almost all police vehicles for a while . . . .and I do not think murder 2 is the right charge. .. . . . .manslaughter . . is more like it . .. . .

I do not intend to come off as no matter what Z is guilty of murder . . .. .he didnt intend imo to shoot Martin it just happened but the second he got out of his truck is where it all started negligence or happenstance his actions led to martins death . ..martin was walking home .. . .think about it

is this the message we send to the people in our country . . . .look presentable or you are suspect. . . . dont do anything odd or you are suspect

the people who pass judgement in this way that i detest are not cops judges or lawyers . . .. they are less then intelligent people who are more willing to act then think

and when you condone this kind of behavior in any way . . .. . . you are saying it is ok . .. . .zero tolerance for violent individuals who take matters into there own hands

 

[kelly4]

I see no supporter of Zimmerman can answer the question as to why he did not return back to his truck after he said "ok" to not follow. Can I now just follow people around and then shoot them dead if they try to fight or confront me for following them.???

Yes you can, although it's still against the law. When you get arrested, I will STILL be on the side that you get a fair trial before being convicted!

 

[londonfog]

Yes you can, although it's still against the law. When you get arrested, I will STILL be on the side that you get a fair trial before being convicted!

and thats the same we ask of the Zimmerman case.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

I never said the justice system is perfect. Far from it, but it's the best we've got. Better than "mob justice". So, if our court system is so fucked and can't be trusted, then why even bother with a trial? Why not just take the guy out back and hang him? You seem to be implying that YOUR own judgement is superior to the court system. Is that a fair assessment? BTW, this is the THIRD time I've asked you about the hypothetical I posed to you. What's wrong? Afraid to play along?

you need to stop looking at me as a adversary we are not in court

if you dont trust the courts then why do you claim to. as there verdict will be satifaction to you no matter what the outcome.

my judgement has nothing to do with the courts, they are a slow and antiquated system for shady lawyers and even mroe shady PA's and judges to bend the law to suit there purposes

i live in a family of physiologist and human behavior and how to notice it is somthing that ahs been apart of my life from day 1

Z is not guilty of a mruder he is guilty of negligence that resutled in a death, the catalyst was when he left his car . . . .. nothing else matters to me in this case . .. he got out and the dominoes started to fall

sorry if my logic disturbs or offends you ' ' '

but i would love to hear how Z getting out of the car was not the catalyst to this situation . . . . .?

Originally Posted by londonfog

I see no supporter of Zimmerman can answer the question as to why he did not return back to his truck after he said "ok" to not follow. Can I now just follow people around and then shoot them dead if they try to fight or confront me for following them.???

Originally Posted by kelly4 Yes you can, although it's still against the law. When you get arrested, I will STILL be on the side that you get a fair trial before being convicted!
​

so if someone is follwoing you your just gonna get all subserviant when they corner you and start to question you . .. . your futur is one i never want to live in

people should have the basic civil liberties to do as they please without fear of being antagonized and question . . . . . . . . .. from people with a history of violence