trayvan martin

doc111 said:

Ok, 4th time now........why won't you play along with my hypothetical?

Let's say you live in a NON-MMJ state. You cultivate cannabis and have been arrested or convicted for it. You friends/neighbors and police all know this. A skunk crawls up under your house and a neighbor calls the police about the "suspicious odor" coming from your house. You are currently "taking a break" from cultivating as a result of your brush with the law so you have no plants currently growing. Should the police just waltz into your house without a warrant and arrest you? Should you be convicted as a result? After all, you have a "history" of cultivating cannabis. You are OBVIOUSLY guilty, right?

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How can they just come in without a warrant ???

doc111 said:

Ok, 4th time now........why won't you play along with my hypothetical?

Let's say you live in a NON-MMJ state. You cultivate cannabis and have been arrested or convicted for it. You friends/neighbors and police all know this. A skunk crawls up under your house and a neighbor calls the police about the "suspicious odor" coming from your house. You are currently "taking a break" from cultivating as a result of your brush with the law so you have no plants currently growing. Should the police just waltz into your house without a warrant and arrest you? Should you be convicted as a result? After all, you have a "history" of cultivating cannabis. You are OBVIOUSLY guilty, right?

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If I've been seen growing many plants for YEARS, yes. It's called probable cause, which includes "Persons known". A cop would have no problem obtaining a signed warrant if you have a history. Zimmy didn't just lose it once. He has a history over YEARS of being out of control and losing his temper. I associate myself with a group which is classified as a gang. I get harassment WAAAY more because of it. That's the system. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, don't shoot it and call it a dear because that's what you were hunting.

londonfog said:

How can they just come in without a warrant ???

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A police officer may NEVER enter a U.S. citizens home unless

A) An emergency situation, like a fire or earthquake.
B) They have reason to believe there is a crime in progress or a fugitive is seen entering your home.
C) Said officer has a signed search warrant. On the warrant it will list what areas they want to search, and EXACTLY what they are looking for!

londonfog said:

do they have a warrant ???

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Sure, why not? Do they need one? I mean, you're OBVIOUSLY cultivating cannabis. There is no other possibility, right? Like maybe a skunk crawled up under your house, or maybe you even pissed off one of your neighbors who knows you have a "history". See, this is why we have courts and laws protecting us. No, it doesn't always work the way we intend, but what in life does? In spite of what the man did or may have done, he still deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. This is all I'm saying. YOU deserve this same presumption, I deserve this same presumption, Samwell deserves this same presumption.........I would hate to live in a world where we are all considered guilty simply because we have a "history" of something. People can change. People DO change. Why is this so hard for people to believe?

*NOTE* Child welfare checks and citizen welfare complaints DO NOT GIVE SOCIAL WORKERS OR POLICE CAUSE TO ENTER YOUR HOME!

Here is a better hypothetical scenario ..say we live in florida..I see you with a hoodie on. I follow you ..you see me..I keep following even getting out of my truck to do so..you stop and say "why you following me" I say "what are you doing here". I keep approaching you looking all creepy and perverted. You swing because you are afraid ..I shoot you and you die..The police come but I don't get arrested, but instead go home.

doc111 said:

Ok, 4th time now........why won't you play along with my hypothetical?

Let's say you live in a NON-MMJ state. You cultivate cannabis and have been arrested or convicted for it. You friends/neighbors and police all know this. A skunk crawls up under your house and a neighbor calls the police about the "suspicious odor" coming from your house. You are currently "taking a break" from cultivating as a result of your brush with the law so you have no plants currently growing. Should the police just waltz into your house without a warrant and arrest you? Should you be convicted as a result? After all, you have a "history" of cultivating cannabis. You are OBVIOUSLY guilty, right?

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so in said scenerio if the cops come i have no reason if im not growing to not let them come and see for them selves and if there is evidence of growing then yes id be arrested and charged and convicted more than likely as it is my word as a ex-grower that i am not currently growing even though they found growing equipment/evidence(violence/paranoia) of growing . . .. . . .

i know the law and i am no victom if i am breaking it i dont make excuses as too why . . .im an adult i know why i do what i do, i make decisions consciously and exccept full responsibility for my actions

Z displayed all his classic signs . . .. paranioa then fear(when martinwas stairing at him then walking toward him), and then he choose to do something about it(more agreesion for no reason)," these guys always get away" and then plan of action to activily seek martin out vs keep tabs on him as he leaves the area," they always get away through the back" which he could have done in his truck parked along the East/West rode that ran purpindicular to the north south cuaseway . . . . and like buck said he knows this area he lived there and watched the community for a long time . . .he knew exactly what he was doing . .. he could have re parked his truck by the exit vs get out of his truck and seek martin out perosnally

he displayed all his classic signs of paranoid delusion mix that with is history of rage and you get a highly variable situation which at the heart starts with Z not martin. . . . . . . .

inthe end. Martin too im sure is to blame for his own death, not saying he deserved it, and his punishment was given out by Z in the sitaution Z directly started

Z also deserves to serve his punishment for his direct and indirect action that led to the confrontation and shooting

doc111 said:

Sure, why not? Do they need one? I mean, you're OBVIOUSLY cultivating cannabis. There is no other possibility, right? Like maybe a skunk crawled up under your house, or maybe you even pissed off one of your neighbors who knows you have a "history". See, this is why we have courts and laws protecting us. No, it doesn't always work the way we intend, but what in life does? In spite of what the man did or may have done, he still deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. This is all I'm saying. YOU deserve this same presumption, I deserve this same presumption, Samwell deserves this same presumption.........I would hate to live in a world where we are all considered guilty simply because we have a "history" of something. People can change. People DO change. Why is this so hard for people to believe?

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dude you come in my house without a search warrant and I will blow your ass away and will be well in my rights. try again

londonfog said:

I see the level of stupidity is about to raise now that you have started to comment today

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No your right trayvon had every right to be hanging out but zimmy should have went the fuck home.LOL heres a little tip you don't want someone watching you dont be in a neighborhood with a giant neighborhood watch sign on the gate.

londonfog said:

Here is a better hypothetical scenario ..say we live in florida..I see you with a hoodie on. I follow you ..you see me..I keep following even getting out of my truck to do so..you stop and say "why you following me" I say "what are you doing here". I keep approaching you looking all creepy and perverted. You swing because you are afraid ..I shoot you and you die..The police come but I don't get arrested, but instead go home.

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Wouldn't you be considerate and allow him to call for help a couple times first?

doc111 said:

Sure, why not? Do they need one? I mean, you're OBVIOUSLY cultivating cannabis. There is no other possibility, right? Like maybe a skunk crawled up under your house, or maybe you even pissed off one of your neighbors who knows you have a "history". See, this is why we have courts and laws protecting us. No, it doesn't always work the way we intend, but what in life does? In spite of what the man did or may have done, he still deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. This is all I'm saying. YOU deserve this same presumption, I deserve this same presumption, Samwell deserves this same presumption.........I would hate to live in a world where we are all considered guilty simply because we have a "history" of something. People can change. People DO change. Why is this so hard for people to believe?

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Because most don't. No ones saying this "Grower" is guilty. Look on the bright side! A cop barges into your home. You record his car and badge number. Then you call an attorney. Then you get a settlement for illegal breach. Then you take your 10K down to the hydro store and buy new gear, because your a FUCKING GROWER, but they missed ya!

cliffey501 said:

No your right trayvon had every right to be hanging out but zimmy should have went the fuck home.LOL heres a little tip you don't want someone watching you dont be in a neighborhood with a giant neighborhood watch sign on the gate.

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and Trayvon was doing what again ??? walking. does it say we follow ??? nope it saids report

afrawfraw said:

because most don't. No ones saying this "grower" is guilty. Look on the bright side! A cop barges into your home. You record his car and badge number. Then you call an attorney. Then you get a settlement for illegal breach. Then you take your 10k down to the hydro store and buy new gear, because your a fucking grower, but they missed ya!

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win win ...

doc111 said:

Sure, why not? Do they need one? I mean, you're OBVIOUSLY cultivating cannabis. There is no other possibility, right? Like maybe a skunk crawled up under your house, or maybe you even pissed off one of your neighbors who knows you have a "history". See, this is why we have courts and laws protecting us. No, it doesn't always work the way we intend, but what in life does? In spite of what the man did or may have done, he still deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. This is all I'm saying. YOU deserve this same presumption, I deserve this same presumption, Samwell deserves this same presumption.........I would hate to live in a world where we are all considered guilty simply because we have a "history" of something. People can change. People DO change. Why is this so hard for people to believe?

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if i am exhibiting acceptable behavior it will be evident when the police search my house . . .. .they need actual evidence unlike Z who only needed his fear, paranoia, assumption and gun

do you see where im coming from at all doc or is it too hard in abstract terms without concrete events and facts


its the old tree in the woods argument . . .. . . . . . .it fell and it made a noise . .. you being there has nothing to do with it . . .in other words

just because no one was in his head to hear his rational doesnt mean that the markers of delusional paranoia and rage are not completely transparent in his actions/history and responses to the situation at hand. .. . . that he made up in his head

londonfog said:

and Trayvon was doing what again ??? walking. does it say we follow ??? nope it saids report

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lmfao . . . .

londonfog said:

and Trayvon was doing what again ??? walking. does it say we follow ??? nope it saids report

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So he was reported to 911 as a walking person? No he was reported as a supsicious person.He never pursued trayvon at all period.You can hear it in the 911 tape theres no heavy breathing to indicate he was running.Trayvon had lots of time to go home but he didn't he chose to come back and confront zim about following him.What if zim happened to be an undercover cop? Trayvon still would have swung on him?

cliffey501 said:

So he was reported to 911 as a walking person? No he was reported as a supsicious person.He never pursued trayvon at all period.You can hear it in the 911 tape theres no heavy breathing to indicate he was running.Trayvon had lots of time to go home but he didn't he chose to come back and confront zim about following him.What if zim happened to be an undercover cop? Trayvon still would have swung on him?

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more delusional thoughts from fantasy island . . . . . .lol

how was Z not follwing him, if martin confronted him about pursue/following(they mean the same thing) him . . . the shit you spew onto the net is funny keep it up

and there was a 3 min break in the call from the police and the time the shot was fired . . . . .if you can say for cetain martin shoudl have been home then Z should have been back at his truck too as he was close to his truck as you claim, if martin did run and z didnt then how was z closer to martins home then his truck as martin ran first?

the shooting happend much closer to martins home then z's truck . . . . . . . .

londonfog said:

dude you come in my house without a search warrant and I will blow your ass away and will be well in my rights. try again

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Your'e missing the point........I'm sure you get EXACTLY what I'm saying here. You're a smart guy aren't you? I'm talking about what a lot of people are doing in this thread......convicting Zimmerman absent all the evidence and facts. Some of you are talking as if you were there! I was not, so I won't cast judgement. Things sometimes are different than they appear on the surface. I was trying to illustrate this with my hypothetical. How would you feel if every time there was a "suspicious odor" or a "noise" or "strange lights" coming from your residence, that your neighbors called the police on you and they came to harass you? Whether they have a warrant or not is immaterial. My point stands that if you have a "history" of growing, should you be entitled to due process? How would you feel? This is obviously futile to try to talk any sense into you guys. You obviously have your mind made up and KNOW exactly what went down. I sincerely hope you are never found "guilty" of some crime simply because you had a "history". Because that's EXACTLY what some people in this thread are saying!

Samwell Seed Well said:

if i am exhibiting acceptable behavior it will be evident when the police search my house . . .. .they need actual evidence unlike Z who only needed his fear, paranoia, assumption and gun

do you see where im coming from at all doc or is it too hard in abstract terms without concrete events and facts


its the old tree in the woods argument . . .. . . . . . .it fell and it made a noise . .. you being there has nothing to do with it . . .in other words

just because no one was in his head to hear his rational doesnt mean that the markers of delusional paranoia and rage are not completely transparent in his actions/history and responses to the situation at hand. .. . . that he made up in his head

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So you're a psychiatrist? A mind reader? No, that's right, you're just "smarter" than everybody else and KNOW exactly what he was thinking. lmfao!!!!!

Samwell Seed Well said:

more delusional thoughts from fantasy island . . . . . .lol

how was Z not follwing him, if martinconfronted him about pursue/following(they mean the same thing) him . . . the shit you spew onto th e net is funny keep i tup

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[h=3]fol·low/ˈfälō/
[/h]

Verb:

Go or come after (a person or thing proceeding ahead); move or travel behind: "she went back into the house, and Ben followed her". Go after (someone) in order to observe or monitor. [h=3]pur·sue/pərˈso͞o/ [/h] Verb: Follow (someone or something) to catch or attack them. Seek to form a sexual relationship with (someone) in a persistent way.