New Global warming puzzle: Is it the sun?

[Dankdude]

Really follow the money? The Cyclic Weather pattern theory came out in the 1950's long before oil companies were trying to defend their bottom line.

 

[medicineman]

Really follow the money? The Cyclic Weather pattern theory came out in the 1950's long before oil companies were trying to defend their bottom line.

We're not in Kansas any more! This is '2006'! Cyclic weather might be a contributing factor, but Mans reckless consumptive abuse of the planet is also one! To deny this is the head in the sand philosophy so endeared by the Bush regime! I have an Idiot friend that contends there are more trees on the planet now than there have been in the last thousand years because man plants trees when he builds his new house. That kind of blind rhetoric is what I find here on this global warming thread. It can be seen from space that the deterioration of the rain forest and billions of trees is catastrophic. Without trees to clean the air, how much longer can this planet sustain life as we know it?

 

[Dankdude]

So you take everthing for gospel?
Like I said, do your own investigation, Part of having an open mind is that you investigate everything and not except everything your told.

At least read through the Links I provided at the begining of the thread.

 

[medicineman]

So you take everthing for gospel?
Like I said, do your own investigation, Part of having an open mind is that you investigate everything and not except everything your told.

At least read through the Links I provided at the begining of the thread.

Couldn't get through on some and I'm not contesting warming on Pluto, maybe the sun is hotter, But that is pretty difficult to ascertain as the temp on the sun modulates with solar storms and flairs, It's fluctuating thousands of degrees every second. I know the sun will get hotter with age, but we're talking millions of years, not hundreds, or tens. the sun will remain in it's temperture range for a long time unless something catastrophic happens like a collision with some large meteor. I just find it hard to believe that someone that I've come to believe has an empirical mind, cannot see mans influence on global climate change. We may have some recurring weather trends, but this magnitude of ice shelf melting has not been seen since the beginning of record keeping. Maybe theres something to this theory!

 

[skunkushybrid]

Global Warming is happening... but is this the fault of the ozone layer? It could be a mixture of both...

I do believe that this global warming is irreversible, arguing about the cause will not stop it... what we need to do is organise our defences. There will be more hurricanes, more tsunamis; bigger than we have seen thus far. Money needs to be spent, fuck Iraq, fuck the war on drugs... we need a war on the environment. We can't let the environment get away with this... we must learn to control it.

 

[medicineman]

So you take everthing for gospel?
Like I said, do your own investigation, Part of having an open mind is that you investigate everything and not except everything your told.

At least read through the Links I provided at the begining of the thread.

After decades of thinking that the ice caps on Mars were mostly carbon dioxide (dry ice), planetary geologists are starting to think that those caps may be mostly fresh water ice instead..........as you can see by this paragraph, scientists don't even know if the ice caps are fresh water ice or carbon dioxide. How then can they then assume a warming trend? What we're working with here on earth are more directly seen and felt phenomenon. The accelerated melting of glaciers and Ice fields, both artic and antartic are a positive sign of rising global temperatures! Does not all the things man has contributed to the heat signature I've explained play a role in this?

 

[DankyDank]

IMO, global warming belief is akin to a religion…..it takes more than a smidgeon of faith in order to believe in this wacky notion.

Wavels, I think you are really onto something there. The whole Evangelical Environmental movement is gaining new adherents all the time. I really think that as the traditional religions become harder to retain faith in, cultures look for something to replace it... people really do have a need to believe in something greater than themselves.
Fundamentalist Christians look for the apocalypse in the form of the Son of God; Fundamentalist Environmentalists look for it in the form of the Sun. Christians have a list of behaviors that are good and evil, and in order to save yourself, you must behave a certain way. Fundie Environmentalists have whole lists of behaviors that you must adhere to in order to save yourself and the planet; driving a certain type of car is a sin, recycling is a sacrament.
When Al Gore's traveling revival came to our local movie theatre, they actually handed out flyers in the lobby detailing "10 Things You Can Do To Save The Planet." It was Gore, the modern day Moses, handing us the new commandments as we left the building.
And as you already pointed out, the leaps of faith required to buy into all this horseshit are huge.

I don't care what religion people want to follow, but I don't like proseletyzing. I wish Evangelical Environmentalists would leave me alone... and their growing influence on government is certainly a violation of the separation of church and state. Plus, all the hot air those assholes blow has to be bad for the climate.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Global Warming belief? Global warming is happening... the argument is why?

 

[Dankdude]

Well if speculation is that the sun is getting hotter then it would stand to reason that the sun will be going super nova. Meaning that our sun is burning out and will relatively soon start to explode.
So that would also mean that man has nothing to do with it in the first place, since there are environmental changes on other planets in our solar system. What really pisses me off about the environmentalist is the way they act... The run around like "Chicken Littles" screaming that the sky is falling.

If the sun is starting to burn out, I'm betting that the environmentalist will try and find a way to blame it on man as a race.

 

[medicineman]

Well if speculation is that the sun is getting hotter then it would stand to reason that the sun will be going super nova. Meaning that our sun is burning out and will relatively soon start to explode. Hey Dude, that super nova thing takes about a billion years to completion, I don't think us or our ancestors will be worrying about the sun going super Nova, I think we had better worry more about what mankind is doing on this planet at this time. By the time we figure out how to impede the destruction of the rain forests and the melting of the polar ice caps, if we don't blow ourselves off the face of the earth with nukes, that might be the time to look into this super nova shit that has you all up in arms. Ask a scientist, it takes millions of years to go super nova, not ten or fifty or even a thousand. Get real and worry about something we can change. It's for damn sure we can't stop a super nova!

 

[ViRedd]

Dank sez ...

"What really pisses me off about the Environmentalists is the way they act... The run around like "Chicken Littles" screaming that the sky is falling."

Now just replace the word "Environmentalists" in the above post with the word "Liberals" and you've got the whole picture in a nutshell.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

There's that one trick pony thing Redd, blame it on the libs. Why are the first five letters of libertarians, the same as liberals? Some collusion there I'd say!

 

[ViRedd]

"Why are the first five letters of libertarians, the same as liberals? Some collusion there I'd say!"

Well, actually Med ... libertarians know from where the term "liberal" originated, and we also know how the socialists "stole" the term "liberal" to define themselves.

The meaning of the term "liberal" has a FAR different meaning today than it did in the early 1900s. In fact the term has been turned upside down and means the exact opposite of the original intent.

Vi

 

[Garden Knowm]

"And so: Man has not contributed to global warming, Is that the hypothesis here?"

Yes, that the hypothesis here. In spite of the propaganda of the "It Takes a Village" crowd, mankind is still the premire animal on the planet.

Vi

What does this word mean exactly?

thank you

 

[Garden Knowm]

mankind is still the premire animal on the planet.

Vi

and this phrase... especially the use of the word.. premiere....

please explain?


And do you think that the eartyh is a conscious being.. and if so... do you think MAN is PREMIERE or EARTH is PREMIERE...

and if you take a stance that MAN is PREMIERE.... the is there anythig YOU don't know...?

Or how about this.... Is theire anything that YOU don't KNOW that YOU don't know? And do you make room for this possiblity of miraculous existence?

iloveyou

 

[Garden Knowm]

mankind is still the premire animal on the planet.

Vi

and this phrase... especially the use of the word.. premiere....

please explain?


And do you think that the earth is a conscious being?.. and if so... do you think MAN is PREMIERE or EARTH is PREMIERE...?

and if you take a stance that MAN is PREMIERE.... then, is there anythig YOU don't know...?

Or how about this....

Is their anything that YOU don't KNOW that YOU don't know?

And do you make room for this possiblity of miraculous existence, of somethingtotaly outside of your your awareness yet 100% real?

iloveyou

And finally I set you up for my next set of questions...

How do you imagine that insects percieve man?

 

[Wavels]

Skunk, IMO, what we perceive as "Global Warming" is part of the natural cycle. I think these cycles continue with or without Mankind’s participation or awareness.

Yes Danky, I have seen striking similarities between the fundamental environmentalist types and religious zealots.

These graphs are quite revealing:
Telegraph | News | Climate chaos? Don't believe it

 

[skunkushybrid]

Man is numero uno, Knowm... and insects have no perception of man. We are the number one animal on the planet, although there are other living things that may, when analysed, have more claim to the number one spot... the giant redwood... what a fucking tree. Tuberculosis, all but irradicated, only to return, bigger and badder than ever. Legionaires disease, the only place you're going to contract this is in hospital, and when you do, you're dead.

I understand excatly what you mean Knowm... it's all about perception... to the ant for example it may well assume that it too is the numero uno on the planet. I love ants, especially when they are kicking termite ass.

Anyhow, this threads about global warming (which is real), and what is causing it. Apparently cows have to shoulder some of the responsibility too.

 

[medicineman]

I just watched a show on the science channel all about the sun. The hypothesis, for we really don't know the exactness of the claims, was that the sun would be around pretty much its present state for another 5 billion years before it went super nova.. Also, the temperatue of the sun would remain constant untill it was almost out of hydrogen, 4-5 billion years. They tried to explain the mini ice age 15,000 years ago on a lack of sunspots, although no-one was around to observe this phenomenon in any recording capacity. But what I'm saying here is the sun is not responsible for global warming, We are. Man and his forge blindly ahead with the current consumptive energy plans, has laid waste to the environment in ways we don't even know. The Inuits, (eskimos) are filing lawsuits against the Industrial countries for the warming of the polar regions. It now rains in winter, something that hasn't happened since recorded time in the artic. the rain freezes the top of the snow pack and the cariboo can't scrape through the ice to get at the vegitation that sustains them. Also the sea ice is too thin to go hunting seals on for the Inuit, These are but a couple of examples of mans assault on mother nature. When will we pull our head out, it seems that a few on this site would blame these things on mama nature, wake the fuck up!! It's us, the ultimate parasites!

 

[Dankdude]

Hey Dude, that super nova thing takes about a billion years to completion, I don't think us or our ancestors will be worrying about the sun going super Nova, I think we had better worry more about what mankind is doing on this planet at this time. By the time we figure out how to impede the destruction of the rain forests and the melting of the polar ice caps, if we don't blow ourselves off the face of the earth with nukes, that might be the time to look into this super nova shit that has you all up in arms. Ask a scientist, it takes millions of years to go super nova, not ten or fifty or even a thousand. Get real and worry about something we can change. It's for damn sure we can't stop a super nova!

One problem about the Carbon Dioxide theory is that Carbon Dioxide is good for plants and helps increase forestation. Contrary to what Al Gore would leave you to believe is that if the polar ice cap in the north were to melt, it would not create massive floods from oceanic levels rising. Reason is simple, if you have an ice cube in a drink and that ice cube melts does the level of your drink rise? No. Also there are scientist who are concerned that parts of the south pole which are melting but other regions of that same land mass that are building up more ice.

There is no way to stop our sun from going super nova. Who knows when that will happen.