nope..i'm gen x..there are many different takes on the years. my parents were boomers. boomers don't have boomers..boomers were a product of 'wartime' pregnancy.
i identify as gen x.
Americans Maintain a Positive View of Bernie Sanders
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
i identify as gen x.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yours is not a common theory much the less true. There have been many studies on the subject too. As opposed to just making up an answer whole cloth like you have done, I've read several of them because asking questions and seeking answers is what I do. In reality, polls don't have a strong effect on voter turnout. The one case where there seems to be an effect is when the poll shows a front runner who is leading by a wide margin. Many people then don't go to the voting station because they think their candidate has it in the bag and going to the poll is a hassle. Polls that show the person of interest is behind didn't affect turnout one bit.
I don't live in Florida where people live in air conditioning all the time, so my guess of what is actually going on for you is a sub-lethal effect of legionnaires disease on your brain. You believe way too many fake conspiracy theories for a heathy mind to hold.
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Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Pervasive artificial scents are voter suppression and cause brain damage
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Hurricane Michael is a hoax that Republicans are using to delay the Florida election so they can replace write-in ballots with ones that are filled in with the right (wing) choices.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
fair enough.
thank you for your opinion.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The bit about your fake conspiracy theory being in fact, fake, is fact.
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
A bird told her.
and yet you question my plausible theory that polls lie because they are of 'likely random voter'..'likely' doesn't equate to the getting your ass in the car..waiting in line..and having to deal with all the old school poll workers when you check in..and there's always something they question because being 80 or 90 they can't read.
but there's nothing as good as feeding the ballot into the scanner. nothing.
okay, donald.
why doesn't @Fogdog understand this? you guys usually agree on most things.
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Sure polls can be wrong. Part of the job of the pollster is to estimate error. This is an admission that there is uncertainty and people shouldn't simply take the poll results as a certain prediction. Also some polls are poorly run with bad sampling methods. Surveymonkey, for example has a terrible sampling method and their results are often skewed and wrong. The problem is, it looks the same as quality surveys and people often quote them when they like the results. Even polling groups that have a good track record are sometimes wrong. This is all why I repeat early and often, "the only poll that matters is an election poll."
A write-up that lists which polls are consistently more accurate in their prediction than others can be found here:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-pollsters-to-trust-in-2018/
Your premise of deliberately fixing an opinion poll to falsely show Gillum in fourth place in order to suppress voter turnout is what I'm calling BS. If something like that worked, Gillum would have lost. But he didn't. So, give it up. There are plenty of real voter suppression tactics in play in the Florida election to focus on.
Speaking of polls that matter, has Broward County EVER run a clean election?
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The only poll that matters is an election poll.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
This is a right wing and Democratic establishment talking point, Bernie Sanders has accomplished a lot throughout his career, especially in the last few years since he's gained support and name recognition. Let's review;
-Passed more amendments (49) than any other member of congress from 1995-2007. Republicans were in control of the House during that period. Would you agree that is a legislative accomplishment?
-Former student organizer for the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC).
-Sanders led the first ever civil rights sit-in in Chicago history to protest segregated housing.
-Former professor of political science at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government and at Hamilton College.
-Former mayor of Burlington, VT. In a stunning upset in 1981, Sanders won the mayoral race in Burlington, Vermont’s largest city. He shocked the city’s political establishment by defeating a six-term, local machine mayor. Burlington is now reported to be one of the most livable cities in the nation.
-Co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus and chaired the group for its first 8 years.
(BTW the CPC has for each of the last 7 budget years authored and published a Federal Budget proposal that would have created more jobs and reduced the National Debt significantly faster than the proposals of either political party or the Executive Branch. ‘The People’s Budget’: Analysis of the Congressional Progressive Caucus budget for fiscal year 201
-Both the NAACP and the NHLA (National Hispanic Leadership Agenda) have given Sanders 100% voting scores during his tenure in the Senate. Earns a D- from the NRA.
-1984: Mayor Sanders established the Burlington Community Land Trust, the first municipal housing land-trust in the country for affordable housing. The project becomes a model emulated throughout the world. It later wins an award from Jack Kemp-led HUD.
-1991: one of a handful in Congress to vote against authorizing US military force in Iraq. “I have a real fear that the region is not going to be more peaceful or more stable after the war,” he said at the time.
-1992: Congress passes Sanders’ first signed piece of legislation to create the National Program of Cancer Registries. A Reader’s Digest article calls the law “the cancer weapon America needs most.” All 50 states now run registries to help cancer researchers gain important insights.
-November 1993: Sanders votes against the Clinton-era North American Free Trade Agreement. Returning from a tour of factories in Mexico, Sanders says: “If NAFTA passes, corporate profits will soar because it will be even easier than now for American companies to flee to Mexico and hire workers there for starvation wages.”
-July 1996: Sanders is one of only 67 (out of 435, 15%) votes against the discriminatory Defense of Marriage Act, which denied federal benefits to same-sex couples legally married. Sanders urged the Supreme Court to throw out the law, which it did in a landmark 2013 ruling – some 17 years later.
-July 1999: Standing up against the major pharmaceutical companies, Sanders becomes the first member of Congress to personally take seniors across the border to Canada to buy lower-cost prescription drugs. The congressman continues his bus trips to Canada with a group of breast cancer patients the following April. These brave women are able to purchase their medications in Canada for almost one-tenth the price charged in the States.
-August 1999: An overflow crowd of Vermonters packs a St. Michael’s College town hall meeting hosted by Sanders to protest an IBM plan to cut older workers’ pensions by as much as 50 percent. CBS Evening News with Dan Rather and The New York Times cover the event. After IBM enacts the plan, Sanders works to reverse the cuts, passing a pair of amendments to prohibit the federal government from acting to overturn a federal district court decision that ruled that IBM’s plan violated pension age discrimination laws. Thanks to Sanders’ efforts, IBM agreed to a $320 million legal settlement with some 130,000 IBM workers and retirees.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
-November 1999: About 10 years before the 2008 Wall Street crash spins the world economy into a massive recession, Sanders votes “no” on a bill to undo decades of financial regulations enacted after the Great Depression. “This legislation,” he predicts at the time, “will lead to fewer banks and financial service providers, increased charges and fees for individual consumers and small businesses, diminished credit for rural America and taxpayer exposure to potential losses should a financial conglomerate fail. It will lead to more mega-mergers, a small number of corporations dominating the financial service industry and further concentration of power in our country.” The House passed the bill 362-57 over Sanders’ objection.
-October 2001: Sanders votes against the USA Patriot Act.
-October 2002: Sanders votes against the Bush-Cheney war in Iraq. He warns at the time that an invasion could “result in anti-Americanism, instability and more terrorism.” Hillary Clinton votes in favor of it.
-November 2006: Sanders defeats Vermont’s richest man, Rich Tarrant, to be elected to the U.S. Senate.
-December 2007: Sanders’ authored energy efficiency and conservation grant program passes into law. He later secures $3.2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 for the grant program.
-September 2008: Thanks to Sanders’ efforts, funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program funding doubles, helping millions of low-income Americans heat their homes in winter.
-February 2009: Sanders works with Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley to pass an amendment to an economic recovery bill preventing Wall Street banks that take taxpayer bailouts from replacing laid-off U.S. workers with exploited and poorly-paid foreign workers.
-December 2009: Sanders passes language in the Affordable Care Act to allow states to apply for waivers to implement pilot health care systems by 2017. The legislation allows states to adopt more comprehensive systems to cover more people at lower costs.
-March 2010: President Barack Obama signs into law the Affordable Care Act with a major Sanders provision to expand federally qualified community health centers. Sanders secures $12.5 billion in funding for the program which now serves more than 25 million Americans. Another $1.5 billion from a Sanders provision went to the National Health Service Corps for scholarships and loan repayment for doctors and nurses who practice in under-served communities.
-July 2010: Sanders works with Republican Congressman Ron Paul in the House to pass a measure as part of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform bill to audit the Federal Reserve, revealing how the independent agency gave $16 trillion in near zero-interest loans to big banks and businesses after the 2008 economic collapse.
-March 2013: Sanders, now chairman of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee, and backed by seniors, women, veterans, labor unions and disabled Americans, leads a successful effort to stop a “chained-CPI” proposal supported by Congressional Republicans and the Administration to cut Social Security and disabled veterans’ benefits.
-April 2013: Sanders introduces legislation to break up major Wall Street banks so large that the collapse of one could send the overall economy into a downward spiral.
-August 2014: A bipartisan $16.5 billion veterans bill written by Sen. Sanders, Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jeff Miller is signed into law by President Barack Obama. The measure includes $5 billion for the VA to hire more doctors and health professionals to meet growing demand for care.
-January 2015: Sanders votes against the Keystone XL pipeline, which would allow multinational corporation TransCanada to transport dirty tar sands oil from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.
-March 2015: Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) introduced legislation to expand benefits and strengthen the retirement program for generations to come. The Social Security Expansion Act was filed on the same day Sanders and other senators received the petitions signed by 2 million Americans, gathered by the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare.
-September 2015: Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and Rep. Bobby L. Rush (D-Ill.) today introduced bills to ban private prisons [which have been 3 to 4 times as expensive with much higher rates of prisoner abuse, guard injury than government run prisons], reinstate the federal parole system and eliminate quotas for the number of immigrants held in detention.
-January 2016: Sanders Places Hold on FDA Nominee Dr. Robert Califf because of his close ties to the pharmaceutical industry and lack of commitment to lowering drug prices.
Sanders also just got Amazon workers a $15/hour minimum wage boost, raised the wages of Disney employees, and is targeting the fast food industry next
Helped get rid of the IDC in NY which prevented progressive legislation going through
Exposed the corruption of the DNC and Hillary Clinton during the 2016 Democratic primary
Is solely responsible for helping more than 40 progressives win their Democratic primaries
Is solely responsible for ensuring more than 120 Democratic members of Congress oppose accepting corporate PAC money
Increased the national support for Medicare For All by more than 20 points in 2 years, including a majority of Republicans (51%)
So the idea that Sanders hasn't accomplished anything during his career is a fabrication of his actual political record. So I hope you form your future arguments with that in mind. No reason to be dishonest about it if you disagree with him, but if you do disagree with him, you should point out your disagreement with him using his actual record and not just form a straw man argument based on ignorance of it.
-October 2001: Sanders votes against the USA Patriot Act.
-October 2002: Sanders votes against the Bush-Cheney war in Iraq. He warns at the time that an invasion could “result in anti-Americanism, instability and more terrorism.” Hillary Clinton votes in favor of it.
-November 2006: Sanders defeats Vermont’s richest man, Rich Tarrant, to be elected to the U.S. Senate.
-December 2007: Sanders’ authored energy efficiency and conservation grant program passes into law. He later secures $3.2 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 for the grant program.
-September 2008: Thanks to Sanders’ efforts, funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program funding doubles, helping millions of low-income Americans heat their homes in winter.
-February 2009: Sanders works with Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley to pass an amendment to an economic recovery bill preventing Wall Street banks that take taxpayer bailouts from replacing laid-off U.S. workers with exploited and poorly-paid foreign workers.
-December 2009: Sanders passes language in the Affordable Care Act to allow states to apply for waivers to implement pilot health care systems by 2017. The legislation allows states to adopt more comprehensive systems to cover more people at lower costs.
-March 2010: President Barack Obama signs into law the Affordable Care Act with a major Sanders provision to expand federally qualified community health centers. Sanders secures $12.5 billion in funding for the program which now serves more than 25 million Americans. Another $1.5 billion from a Sanders provision went to the National Health Service Corps for scholarships and loan repayment for doctors and nurses who practice in under-served communities.
-July 2010: Sanders works with Republican Congressman Ron Paul in the House to pass a measure as part of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform bill to audit the Federal Reserve, revealing how the independent agency gave $16 trillion in near zero-interest loans to big banks and businesses after the 2008 economic collapse.
-March 2013: Sanders, now chairman of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee, and backed by seniors, women, veterans, labor unions and disabled Americans, leads a successful effort to stop a “chained-CPI” proposal supported by Congressional Republicans and the Administration to cut Social Security and disabled veterans’ benefits.
-April 2013: Sanders introduces legislation to break up major Wall Street banks so large that the collapse of one could send the overall economy into a downward spiral.
-August 2014: A bipartisan $16.5 billion veterans bill written by Sen. Sanders, Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jeff Miller is signed into law by President Barack Obama. The measure includes $5 billion for the VA to hire more doctors and health professionals to meet growing demand for care.
-January 2015: Sanders votes against the Keystone XL pipeline, which would allow multinational corporation TransCanada to transport dirty tar sands oil from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.
-March 2015: Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) introduced legislation to expand benefits and strengthen the retirement program for generations to come. The Social Security Expansion Act was filed on the same day Sanders and other senators received the petitions signed by 2 million Americans, gathered by the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare.
-September 2015: Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) and Rep. Bobby L. Rush (D-Ill.) today introduced bills to ban private prisons [which have been 3 to 4 times as expensive with much higher rates of prisoner abuse, guard injury than government run prisons], reinstate the federal parole system and eliminate quotas for the number of immigrants held in detention.
-January 2016: Sanders Places Hold on FDA Nominee Dr. Robert Califf because of his close ties to the pharmaceutical industry and lack of commitment to lowering drug prices.
Sanders also just got Amazon workers a $15/hour minimum wage boost, raised the wages of Disney employees, and is targeting the fast food industry next
Helped get rid of the IDC in NY which prevented progressive legislation going through
Exposed the corruption of the DNC and Hillary Clinton during the 2016 Democratic primary
Is solely responsible for helping more than 40 progressives win their Democratic primaries
Is solely responsible for ensuring more than 120 Democratic members of Congress oppose accepting corporate PAC money
Increased the national support for Medicare For All by more than 20 points in 2 years, including a majority of Republicans (51%)
Why would the Democratic establishment support Sanders? Why do you think he needs Democratic party establishment support? He doesn't have their support because everything he stands for and his history of voting opposes corporate oligarchy, which the Democratic establishment does support. I see that as a positive, not to mention he has the support of the people
So the idea that Sanders hasn't accomplished anything during his career is a fabrication of his actual political record. So I hope you form your future arguments with that in mind. No reason to be dishonest about it if you disagree with him, but if you do disagree with him, you should point out your disagreement with him using his actual record and not just form a straw man argument based on ignorance of it.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie has only gotten a few post offices named in his designee's honor and some solar water heaters installed on some Federal buildings.
Everything else was either handed to him or he rode the coattails of accomplished Democrats.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There are places where Bernie is more of a drag than a help to Democrats
South Carolina Democrats: Better if Bernie 'got lost'
https://kutv.com/news/connect-to-congress/south-carolina-democrats-better-if-bernie-got-lost
Amanda Loveday served as executive director of South Carolina's Democratic Party and previously did communications for U.S. Rep. Jim Clyburn, the state's lone congressional Democrat. Asked about the effect of Sanders' visit to South Carolina, she called the trip "extremely selfish" and not in the best interest of the state's Democratic candidates.
"I just think it's extremely selfish of Bernie Sanders to think he could walk into South Carolina without an invitation from a candidate and think he's going to be welcomed with open arms," Loveday said. "It's hard for me to think of an actual, legitimate Democratic candidate who would stand on stage with him here."
"Bernie does not resonate in South Carolina," Brown said. "He'd be doing us all a favor if he just got lost."
A redux of Sanders' 2016 effort, Charleston County Democratic Party Chairman Brady Quirk-Garvan added, does nothing to help voters who want to put the bruising primary process behind them and may be looking toward other possible candidates, including former Vice President Joe Biden, New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker and Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, all of whom have recently or will soon spend time in the state.
On Wednesday, Politico reported that California Sen. Kamala Harris will visit the state next week, stumping for candidates in Columbia and Greenville.
"Even back then, most Democrats were not on board with what he was pitching," Quirk-Garvan said of Sanders' primary campaign. "For many, even people who backed Sen. Sanders in the primary, they're looking for some new ideas."
Brown suggested, people attracted to Sanders' ideas should support traditional Democratic platform planks, like Medicaid expansion and an overall fight for better wages.
"If he comes to South Carolina, he'll have his 15 people will show up," Brown said. "I hope it's worth it to him, because he's doing greater damage to the party overall."
Bernie is a very divisive political leader. People would probably thing better of him if he worked well with others.
South Carolina Democrats: Better if Bernie 'got lost'
https://kutv.com/news/connect-to-congress/south-carolina-democrats-better-if-bernie-got-lost
Amanda Loveday served as executive director of South Carolina's Democratic Party and previously did communications for U.S. Rep. Jim Clyburn, the state's lone congressional Democrat. Asked about the effect of Sanders' visit to South Carolina, she called the trip "extremely selfish" and not in the best interest of the state's Democratic candidates.
"I just think it's extremely selfish of Bernie Sanders to think he could walk into South Carolina without an invitation from a candidate and think he's going to be welcomed with open arms," Loveday said. "It's hard for me to think of an actual, legitimate Democratic candidate who would stand on stage with him here."
"Bernie does not resonate in South Carolina," Brown said. "He'd be doing us all a favor if he just got lost."
A redux of Sanders' 2016 effort, Charleston County Democratic Party Chairman Brady Quirk-Garvan added, does nothing to help voters who want to put the bruising primary process behind them and may be looking toward other possible candidates, including former Vice President Joe Biden, New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker and Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, all of whom have recently or will soon spend time in the state.
On Wednesday, Politico reported that California Sen. Kamala Harris will visit the state next week, stumping for candidates in Columbia and Greenville.
"Even back then, most Democrats were not on board with what he was pitching," Quirk-Garvan said of Sanders' primary campaign. "For many, even people who backed Sen. Sanders in the primary, they're looking for some new ideas."
Brown suggested, people attracted to Sanders' ideas should support traditional Democratic platform planks, like Medicaid expansion and an overall fight for better wages.
"If he comes to South Carolina, he'll have his 15 people will show up," Brown said. "I hope it's worth it to him, because he's doing greater damage to the party overall."
Bernie is a very divisive political leader. People would probably thing better of him if he worked well with others.
Buddha2525
Well-Known Member
Bernie is the only Democrat who blue collar left leaning Republicans will endorse for president. Why vote for corpratist stooges when there's a Republican for that?
Congrats on 5.25 more years of Trump.