Flynn guilty of lying about quid pro quo with russia
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
TacoMac
Well-Known Member
Whether he was instructed to or not, it's still very bad for Trump.
It means that Trump knew WITHOUT DOUBT that people in his party were colluding/communicating/whatever you want to call it with the Russians. That is something Trump has flat out denied since day one.
The only logical conclusion anybody could ever come to from that is that Trump is lying as well, which can get him impeached in record time.
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
We
Welcome back, sailor.
greg nr
Well-Known Member
Still makes no difference other than in the court of public ignorance. Expert after expert says muehler won't indict a sitting president. He can and will file a report with damning information, but it will be up to congress to impeach him.
They won't.
Only way out for us is if he intentionally asks his cabinet to remove him with the 25th amendment. It's a perfect fit for him. He is both president, and not the president at the same time. Pence will only be "acting president". Sure, trump wouldn't have any position or power, but he would still have a salary, and secret service protection, and could continue to use the title president. And he will still have twitter, can go to campaign events, and can claim to be the "victim".
If he is out on the 25th, congress won't move to impeach him. And he can still pardon himself before he is declared unfit.
He could resign, but the 25th gives him more cover. He above everything else, needs to think he is a hero, not a loser.
But if you are looking for him to be convicted while in office, it probably isn't going to happen. Neither is impeachment under this congress. Heck, half a dozen republican senators just admitted he lobbied them to drop the congressional russia inquiries. They didn't report it. They didn't bring it up. It had to be dragged out of them.
They won't.
Only way out for us is if he intentionally asks his cabinet to remove him with the 25th amendment. It's a perfect fit for him. He is both president, and not the president at the same time. Pence will only be "acting president". Sure, trump wouldn't have any position or power, but he would still have a salary, and secret service protection, and could continue to use the title president. And he will still have twitter, can go to campaign events, and can claim to be the "victim".
If he is out on the 25th, congress won't move to impeach him. And he can still pardon himself before he is declared unfit.
He could resign, but the 25th gives him more cover. He above everything else, needs to think he is a hero, not a loser.
But if you are looking for him to be convicted while in office, it probably isn't going to happen. Neither is impeachment under this congress. Heck, half a dozen republican senators just admitted he lobbied them to drop the congressional russia inquiries. They didn't report it. They didn't bring it up. It had to be dragged out of them.
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
This must be fake news.
_gresh_
Well-Known Member
For weeks, Trump has vented privately to advisers about his anxiety over signs that Flynn had flipped.
He noted the possibility that Flynn had “turned on me,” three sources close to the president independently recall him saying, per The Daily Beast.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/very-senior-trump-official-authorized-flynns-russia-outreach
He noted the possibility that Flynn had “turned on me,” three sources close to the president independently recall him saying, per The Daily Beast.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/very-senior-trump-official-authorized-flynns-russia-outreach
Sour Wreck
Well-Known Member
1) Presidential Immunity - Muehler cannot charge Trump because only Congress can charge a sitting president through impeachment. While the president is in power they can do almost anything and while they are in office they cannot be charged with a crime, sued, fined, and even every single legal proceeding underway gets frozen until they are done with their term. well I cannot be sure of the precise details but it somewhere along those lines. It is very far-reaching, and covers all pending legal matters, as well as all actions taken by a sitting president. It is part of the reason nobody can sue Dubya-Bush for fucking up the economy.
2) Only Congress can charge a sitting president with a Crime and it is through legislation called Impeachment. While the sitting president cannot be charged with a crime by the Justice department, Congress can and has acted on impeachment before - although never has a president been removed through impeachment (only the house or senate voted for impeaching Clinton and Nixon resigned before it got to that, and his Vice President pardoned him as soon as he left office) so since Flynn is guilty of a crime, and the President asked the Attorney General to stop investigating it - I think there is evidence of Obstruction of Justice. I also would like to see how fast Trump pardons Flynn, if at all. We all know Trump is loyal only to himself so if he doesn't pardon Flynn, but offers a pardon to Kushner, for example - it may exascerbate his cabinet to move forward with removal.
Which brings me to #3.
3) 25th ammendment - or as I call it - the Colonoscopy Ammendment. When the cabinet finds the President unfit for office, they do not charge him with a crime. They hand the powers over to the VP temporarily. It happens once a year during hte routine 'COLONOSCOPY' all presidents get as part of their incredible tax-payer funded health care. I do not think Trump knows what a Colonoscopy is and I don't think he's going to get one any time soon. His cabinet is full of loyalists (with the exception of Tillerson who I personally despise, but the guy IS smart - anybody who can get past that fucking accent can see this is the brightest tool in Trump's shed and he's making a mistake removing him). - so they will not move to remove him from office. Unless he can show them how much of a piece of shit we all know he is, by pardoning his son-in-law and not anybody else.
that said It would be the best christmas present to have Trump out of office, Pence in the white house and Ryan out of congress and in the VP seat. I think the speaker of the house has way more power than the VP for most matters so seeing him in a powerless seat would be a blessing.....
abalonehx
Well-Known Member
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Sour Wreck
Well-Known Member
karma is a motherfucker
greg nr
Well-Known Member
short answer but correct.
The reason a sitting president may not be able to be prosecuted is due to the supremacy clause of the constitution which basically states no branch of gov't is supreme. One can't dominate them all. That is quite intentional to our democracy. Balance of power creates stability.
Of course, it has never really been tested. It is only legal opinion that the pres can't be prosecuted while in office, but the watergate prosecutors decided it was the more valid interpretation. There are other opinions.
As for your colonoscopy theory, not so much. A president can voluntarily transfer power to a vp if they will be unable to execute the powers of the office for a period of time. It is voluntary and they can undo it at will. The congress isn't involved other than to be notified.
The 25th amendmendment is an involuntary transfer of power from a president who has become unable to execute their duties. It requires signoff of the vp and a majority of the cabinet (roughly 8 people). It then requires certification by 2/3 of both houses. Not an easy bar to cross. Further, at any time, the president can petition congress to be reinstated. To deny the petition will again take a 2/3 vote of both houses. There is no limit to the number of times a removed pres can petition to come back.
The 25th was passed after kennedy was assasanated. Congress realized that if kennedy had lived, but in a coma, there would be a crisis of power. The vp couldn't act as president unless the president dies or was impeached. Being injured isn't really grounds for impeachment. So they created a trap door to transfer power to the vp until the pres either recovers or dies. They never expected it to be used in the case of insanity or they wouldn't have left it so open ended.
Which is why it's a perfect out for trump in his mind. He would technically still be the president, just without power or position.
Ryan would never be vp btw. He has way more power as speaker. He would take the presidency, but wouldn't accept the vp slot. It isn't automatic. A VP replacement still has to be nominated and confirmed. Succession is automatic, but someone can turn it down and it would go to the next in line.
Sour Wreck
Well-Known Member
christians aren't really the problem, it's american republican christians that are the issue. #cult45