WOW! The War On White Old Men..

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
They got suckered by the Business Establishment just like everyone else. Don't let yourself get sucked into left vs right thinking, because the REAL enemy- the majority owners of America's largest and most powerful corporations- own and operate both parties as their personal mouthpieces... Just like pretty much every politician well funded enough to gain national attention has to be- where else will they get the money?

It takes hundreds of millions of dollars to run a competitive Presidential campaign in America today.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE DEMOCRACY TO YOU?!

Democracy can be just as tyrannical as a dictator, but harder to get rid of due to the sheep believing that a majority can somehow bestow powers they don't possess as individuals (the power to fuck with others) onto "democratically elected leaders".
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Democracy does not protect the minority from the will of the majority. It's tantamount to mob rule. No one likes being lynched by a bloodthirsty gathering of torch-and-pitchfork-wielding... people? I guess we'll go with "people." Close enough.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Suppose I make $5 million per year. What would my fair share be?

The 5 million is a salary for being the coach of a football team. That is the total gross amount of money that is put in my hand each year.

What would be fair in your view?
Let's ask that question differently; what do you need the money for? After the first $100k, what does a family NEED all that excess for?

Power and self aggrandizement, of course!

I'd charge half or more of all income earned over $250k, progressively.

Those who earn less than $50k would see their taxes diminish substantially.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Democracy can be just as tyrannical as a dictator, but harder to get rid of due to the sheep believing that a majority can somehow bestow powers they don't possess as individuals (the power to fuck with others) onto "democratically elected leaders".
An excellent point, and a serious potential pitfall.
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
Let's ask that question differently; what do you need the money for? After the first $100k, what does a family NEED all that excess for?

Power and self aggrandizement, of course!

I'd charge half or more of all income earned over $250k, progressively.

Those who earn less than $50k would see their taxes diminish substantially.
What business is it of yours how much other members of this society make?

Who are you to limit a family's reasonable needs?

What if I only have a few years to earn this, only to have the income fade. Like those involved in sports or entertainment.

You could be a rock band and have a one hit wonder. You could be a star football player and break your neck.

Or you could be a CEO and expect to make this money or more for the rest of your career.

100k isn't really a hell of a lot of money to earn each year. It provides you a comfortable life if you manage it well.

I think a person making 5 million per year shouldn't have to relinquish much more than 1 million of that in taxes.

What do they need it for? To ensure the economic security of themselves and their lineage after them.
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
What business is it of yours how much other members of this society make?

Who are you to limit a family's reasonable needs?

What if I only have a few years to earn this, only to have the income fade. Like those involved in sports or entertainment.

You could be a rock band and have a one hit wonder. You could be a star football player and break your neck.

Or you could be a CEO and expect to make this money or more for the rest of your career.

100k isn't really a hell of a lot of money to earn each year. It provides you a comfortable life if you manage it well.

I think a person making 5 million per year shouldn't have to relinquish much more than 1 million of that in taxes.

What do they need it for? To ensure the economic security of themselves and their lineage after them.
And yet, those who are stuck with insufficient earnings, are still taxed, despite their needs, backed by threat of asset seizure and imprisonment, which can only be imposed through violence and potential death.

If the government needs more money, it should ask those with a surplus "how much do you love your country?" ASK. Not go around commanding people to pay taxes to support something they disagree with, under penalty of death.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Democracy does not protect the minority from the will of the majority. It's tantamount to mob rule. No one likes being lynched by a bloodthirsty gathering of torch-and-pitchfork-wielding... people? I guess we'll go with "people." Close enough.
What business is it of yours how much other members of this society make?

Who are you to limit a family's reasonable needs?

What if I only have a few years to earn this, only to have the income fade. Like those involved in sports or entertainment.

You could be a rock band and have a one hit wonder. You could be a star football player and break your neck.

Or you could be a CEO and expect to make this money or more for the rest of your career.

100k isn't really a hell of a lot of money to earn each year. It provides you a comfortable life if you manage it well.

I think a person making 5 million per year shouldn't have to relinquish much more than 1 million of that in taxes.

What do they need it for? To ensure the economic security of themselves and their lineage after them.
Economically, your 'solution's a train wreck
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
1. why do we need "government?"
2. how much does the minimum necessary government cost?
3. how do we afford to keep the government we actually need?
4. etc.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Let's ask that question differently; what do you need the money for? After the first $100k, what does a family NEED all that excess for?

Power and self aggrandizement, of course!

I'd charge half or more of all income earned over $250k, progressively.

Those who earn less than $50k would see their taxes diminish substantially.
Why do you or the government deserve the profit from someone elses labor?? What gives you the right to take what is not yours??

What would motivate someone to make money if they could not keep it?
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I reckon we got ourselves a conundrum!
The conundrum is government is no longer for the people but for itself. The solution is a new government based on the restrictive principals of the original constitution combined with the social changes over the past couple hundred years.
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
The conundrum is government is no longer for the people but for itself. The solution is a new government based on the restrictive principals of the original constitution combined with the social changes over the past couple hundred years.
There's another part to the conundrum: the delinquent and compromised government, now exclusively run by established usurpers, "regulatory captors," maintains its self-authorization of the monopoly of force.

This illegitimate government declares we are not allowed to have any real power... or even actually own anything. They declare themselves authorized to take whatever they want from us, because anything we earn, we have earned by using government facilitated resources and infrastructure, in order to survive long enough to earn anything.

They believe they own us. What is the solution to that?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Why do you or the government deserve the profit from someone elses labor??
because they set up and assured the infrastructure that allows you to accumulate the wealth.

What gives you the right to take what is not yours??
it's because they sign a withholding agreement voluntarily.

What would motivate someone to make money if they could not keep it?
that's the thing though, you can and do keep it. we have the lowest effective taxes on business anywhere.

any more stupid questions?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The conundrum is government is no longer for the people but for itself.
then why do you keep complaining about 47% of folks getting "free shit"?

The solution is a new government based on the restrictive principals of the original constitution combined with the social changes over the past couple hundred years.
how do we reconcile the 3/5th clause with civil rights and the voting rights act?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Why do you or the government deserve the profit from someone elses labor?? What gives you the right to take what is not yours??

What would motivate someone to make money if they could not keep it?
EXCELLENT QUESTIONS!

We need to stop thinking of government as 'them'. It's pernicious propaganda to suggest that a democracy should think of its own government as an outside entity. Why do you suppose that lie is so well promulgated? Who benefits?

What if We the People ran our own government, with an eye towards the common man as opposed to choosing the rich at the expense of everyone else? If it were accountable and transparent to everyone all the time (obvious exceptions for military necessity) then the idea that a portion of your income going to support the country would be a much sweeter bite to swallow.

This is absolutely not the situation as it exists on the ground today; the United States is every bit as much of an oligopoly as Putin's Russia- and we have the Princeton study that proves it. The current government is run as the personal pachinko game of the ultra rich- only they never lose, because the average taxpayer foots the bill.

So- if you knew that half your paycheck went to keeping the roads in great condition, building and running top notch schools for EVERY child, spending defense dollars to build alliances and assist people overseas instead of stones and cruise missiles... I don't want to digress.

The point is that citizen oriented civil service systems work much better than ours in most other industrialized nations- and we have every right to demand that level of service in this country. The idea that we aren't worth the investment is insulting.

How expensive is a permanent underclass, and how long can America continue to afford one in the twenty first century? I'd say the cost of that is far, far more unbearable than asking people to accept a smaller yacht.
 

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT

Well-Known Member
EXCELLENT QUESTIONS!

We need to stop thinking of government as 'them'. It's pernicious propaganda to suggest that a democracy should think of its own government as an outside entity. Why do you suppose that lie is so well promulgated? Who benefits?

What if We the People ran our own government, with an eye towards the common man as opposed to choosing the rich at the expense of everyone else? If it were accountable and transparent to everyone all the time (obvious exceptions for military necessity) then the idea that a portion of your income going to support the country would be a much sweeter bite to swallow.

This is absolutely not the situation as it exists on the ground today; the United States is every bit as much of an oligopoly as Putin's Russia- and we have the Princeton study that proves it. The current government is run as the personal pachinko game of the ultra rich- only they never lose, because the average taxpayer foots the bill.

So- if you knew that half your paycheck went to keeping the roads in great condition, building and running top notch schools for EVERY child, spending defense dollars to build alliances and assist people overseas instead of stones and cruise missiles... I don't want to digress.

The point is that citizen oriented civil service systems work much better than ours in most other industrialized nations- and we have every right to demand that level of service in this country. The idea that we aren't worth the investment is insulting.

How expensive is a permanent underclass, and how long can America continue to afford one in the twenty first century? I'd say the cost of that is far, far more unbearable than asking people to accept a smaller yacht.
so to stop the government from spending my money as part of their pachinko game i should give them more of the money i made?
 
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