WOW! The War On White Old Men..

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT said:

so to stop the government from spending my money as part of their pachinko game i should give them more of the money i made?

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Right now, you spend that money and have no say in how it gets spent- and it for damned sure isn't being spent on YOUR well-being, is it?

Any measure of control or influence over how government monies are spent for the purpose of assisting you, your neighbors, your kids and therefore society at large would be an improvement, right?

Would you be more willing to spend more in taxes to get more in services and indeed a leg up on prosperity? If the rich can get all that, why not the rest of us?!

I suggest progressive taxes, where no one- not rich nor poor- pays a dime on their first ten thousand in income. For each additional increment of income, the tax increases... that's why they call it a progressive tax.

No one has made a case for why the rich need to pay 1/3 or less in taxes than the rest of us- which more than any other factor explains how they got so rich in the first place;

how much of 1000000 dollars would be taxed in your scenario?

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT said:

how much of 1000000 dollars would be taxed in your scenario?

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...and what are the deductions...

Everything above the first $250k is taxed at 50%. There would be few deductions one would personally qualify for above that amount, the few that are left under the new system would phase out as income rises.

On the other hand, college tuition would be free for those who qualify academically. No more tolls on roads. Allllllll those fees at the local, county, state and Federal level GO AWAY as the regressive taxes they really are. Free health care. Free job education- trust me, that one pays for itself. Much, much more, all designed to help people gain a higher quality of life for themselves, their children and their fellow countrymen- a quality of life we used to enjoy as second to none, yet now we've slipped and are sinking fast.

Public transportation would be free- and increasingly, would be used by everyone just as it is in other industrialized nations as the only really sensible solution to twenty first century transportation problems.

So a short answer guess at the question is 'almost fifty percent'. I'd pay one dollar in two to make sure my country it's well funded and supports me and all of my countrymen... because we're all in it together- and they're my customers! And suppliers! And friends!

But that's not terribly different than now, is it? It's just all those pesky deductions!

And what if we allow those who would skew division between us to win the philosophical fight? We stop being a nation at all- and start looking like Somalia.

Time is running out. You can visit American Somalia in many places; Appalachia, New Orleans, ghettos of every major city. Either we reach out to them- or eventually they'll be coming for everyone.

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT said:

so to stop the government from spending my money as part of their pachinko game i should give them more of the money i made?

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semantics: you didn't "make" that money; the rich did. And they made it, and the rules surrounding it, so that it could be used as a means to control you.

Try to imagine what would happen if everyone figured out how to not need money at all, and to be completely free from any monetary obligations.

People say misdirecting things like "money is the root of all evil," but money is more of a tool, not "the root."

While we focus on the tool, the root remains.

reasonevangelist said:

semantics: you didn't "make" that money; the rich did. And they made it, and the rules surrounding it, so that it could be used as a means to control you.

Try to imagine what would happen if everyone figured out how to not need money at all, and to be completely free from any monetary obligations.

People say misdirecting things like "money is the root of all evil," but money is more of a tool, not "the root."

While we focus on the tool, the root remains.

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Absolutely wrong. They're stealing it because you pay over three times the tax they do. They took that money, bought 85% of all the wealth in the country- and then bought the political system and rigged it to give themselves so many unfair advantage you need a degree in tax law to know them... which is how they keep those for themselves. Neat, huh?

What are you, an apologist for them because you don't want to do the math?!

YOU'RE THE ONE BEING RIPPED OFF! That is, unless you're making over $2.7 million a year;

ttystikk said:

Absolutely wrong. They're stalling it because you last over three times the tax they do. They took that money, bought 85% of all the wealth in the country- and then bought the political system.

What are you, an apologist for them because you don't want to do the math?!

YOU'RE THE ONE BEING RIPPED OFF! That is, unless you're making over $2.7 million a year;
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a puzzling response...

The "money" was created, invented. The whole system is a giant Con. (edit: i wouldn't call it a "con," if i didn't feel ripped off...)

My previous comment was playing with semantics, suggesting that while anyone may "earn" money, the one earning it is not the one creating it.

By creating money, and then more as needed, "they" are able to create wealth out of "nothing" (which is actually created out of exploiting the trust and labor of the populace).

Honestly, it's a brilliant scheme they've engineered... but i still think it's wrong of them.

ttystikk said:

EXCELLENT QUESTIONS!

We need to stop thinking of government as 'them'. It's pernicious propaganda to suggest that a democracy should think of its own government as an outside entity. Why do you suppose that lie is so well promulgated? Who benefits?

What if We the People ran our own government, with an eye towards the common man as opposed to choosing the rich at the expense of everyone else? If it were accountable and transparent to everyone all the time (obvious exceptions for military necessity) then the idea that a portion of your income going to support the country would be a much sweeter bite to swallow.

This is absolutely not the situation as it exists on the ground today; the United States is every bit as much of an oligopoly as Putin's Russia- and we have the Princeton study that proves it. The current government is run as the personal pachinko game of the ultra rich- only they never lose, because the average taxpayer foots the bill.

So- if you knew that half your paycheck went to keeping the roads in great condition, building and running top notch schools for EVERY child, spending defense dollars to build alliances and assist people overseas instead of stones and cruise missiles... I don't want to digress.

The point is that citizen oriented civil service systems work much better than ours in most other industrialized nations- and we have every right to demand that level of service in this country. The idea that we aren't worth the investment is insulting.

How expensive is a permanent underclass, and how long can America continue to afford one in the twenty first century? I'd say the cost of that is far, far more unbearable than asking people to accept a smaller yacht.

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Capitalism is one of the few systems that allows just regular people to become wealthy.

Look at a lot of our millionaires and billionaires, it's first generation wealth.

As I said, capitalism does allow it. Most other systems force all but an elite few, chosen by birth, to be born and universally die into poverty.

It isn't perfect, but it's the best way we got to do it so far.

I'm for taxing at very high percentage at stupidly high incomes. Like 50 million/year or something.

The rules are being rewritten to put the lie to the whole first generation thing, and many, many families run many industries for generations. There is an elite here that wants to endlessly perpetuate itself- and guess who they want to keep out? Us, that's who! I've met plenty of these fucks who think this way and are happy to tell me how they think- and they're pretty damned sure they're better than the rest of us, their bank account is proof enough in their minds.

America's actual opportunity index- the one that measures just how upwardly mobile a society really is- is badly lagging most other industrialized nations.

THAT'S what I'm trying to fix!

ttystikk said:

The rules are being rewritten to put the lie to the whole first generation thing, and many, many families run many industries for generations. There is an elite here that wants to endlessly perpetuate itself- and guess who they want to keep out? Us, that's who! I've met plenty of these fucks who think this way and are happy to tell me how they think- and they're pretty damned sure they're better than the rest of us, their bank account is proof enough in their minds.

America's actual opportunity index- the one that measures just how upwardly mobile a society really is- is badly lagging most other industrialized nations.

THAT'S what I'm trying to fix!

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I'm all on board in helping upward mobility.

But you can't do it in a vacuum. You can't do it if we're free trading with slave labor wages in Asia.

You can't do it while US, Canada and Western Europe (I'll throw Australia and NZ in too) all trade with third world countries.

The aforementioned countries, and a few others (Japan, S. Korea, maybe a couple of the Gulf States) should all form a trading block. No goods or services imported from anyone not in that group. You could export to others.

That is a large enough block to choke the rest of the planet.

Perhaps you could help the rest of the world out by voting on one or two other countries to let in to help grow the planet.

I'm fine if we cut off a good chunk of Asia, Africa, and S America to perpetual poverty.

NLXSK1 said:

There was a time in this countries history when one man did bail out the government from his personal finances

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you must be talking about haym. the gov. sure was grateful huh? not a whole lot of people know about him. that would make a great movie, i think. i can't remember when i read about him, but it was a while back. i'm sure the jew haters could twist the story somehow, and make him look bad, lol...

UncleBuck said:

have you ever lived in nepal?

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Have you ever lived in the deep south?
Why are you so terrified of it?

ttystikk said:

Let's ask that question differently; what do you need the money for? After the first $100k, what does a family NEED all that excess for?

Power and self aggrandizement, of course!

I'd charge half or more of all income earned over $250k, progressively.

Those who earn less than $50k would see their taxes diminish substantially.

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In order to be morally consistent, you should only charge people for the things that you and they agreed to voluntarily.

Absent a voluntary agreement, you'd be stealing wouldn't you? What gives any of us the right to take something that is not ours?

reasonevangelist said:

There's another part to the conundrum: the delinquent and compromised government, now exclusively run by established usurpers, "regulatory captors," maintains its self-authorization of the monopoly of force.

This illegitimate government declares we are not allowed to have any real power... or even actually own anything. They declare themselves authorized to take whatever they want from us, because anything we earn, we have earned by using government facilitated resources and infrastructure, in order to survive long enough to earn anything.

They believe they own us. What is the solution to that?

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Each individual owns themself. No individual owns others. Recognition and application of this is the solution.

Silky Shagsalot said:

you must be talking about haym. the gov. sure was grateful huh? not a whole lot of people know about him. that would make a great movie, i think. i can't remember when i read about him, but it was a while back. i'm sure the jew haters could twist the story somehow, and make him look bad, lol...

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He was talking about J P Morgan and the 1907 bank panic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907

NoDrama said:

He was talking about J P Morgan and the 1907 bank panic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907

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this was before that...

SmokeyDan said:

Capitalism is one of the few systems that allows just regular people to become wealthy.

Look at a lot of our millionaires and billionaires, it's first generation wealth.

As I said, capitalism does allow it. Most other systems force all but an elite few, chosen by birth, to be born and universally die into poverty.

It isn't perfect, but it's the best way we got to do it so far.

I'm for taxing at very high percentage at stupidly high incomes. Like 50 million/year or something.

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How do you justify taking from one person that which belongs to them absent their individual consent?

Are you also in favor of limiting the number of calories a person can consume, "because they don't need all that" ?

NoDrama said:

He was talking about J P Morgan and the 1907 bank panic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907

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love your new sig line-up..i look forward everyday to new!

Rob Roy said:

Each individual owns themself. No individual owns others. Recognition and application of this is the solution.

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right...

but forcing those who believe they own us, to recognize that they do not, is a bit more complicated than simply declaring ourselves sovereign. (and if you do attempt to "go around declaring personal sovereignty," you will be labeled "a dangerous cook/criminal")

Instead of acknowledging our declaration of self-ownership, they will simply command their mercenary goons to impose force upon us, regardless of our absent consent, leaving only the options of compliance or death. (how ironic for those goons... they believe they are "protecting freedom," while being the primary tool used to prevent and/or revoke it; they must believe they owe their masters an impossible debt, to believe themselves justified in continuously choosing to follow orders to oppress, violate and destroy, the very people they swore to protect! ...and only for the purpose of material compensation! "Just doing my job," "the law is the law..." <-- things a person lacking empathy or conscience would say...)

The problem is that they have monopolized authority to enforce, and in accordance with their own arbitrarily legitimized doctrine, regardless of whatever any dissenters might feel or think of it.

We are outgunned, distracted, divided and disorganized. And "they" own/control the infrastructure which would be necessary to facilitate a sufficient counter.


I have to mention good ole Alex Jones here (i don't necessarily agree with his personal beliefs, but he's right about a lot of important things): for many years, he's been insisting that the "endgame" is to coerce the populace into begging the U.N. to override the U.S. Gov't... for those usurpers who have made our government "evil," to have intended to do just that, so that we would cry for help to save us from the manufactured boogeymen, and ultimately, "to usher in a new world order; a one-world-government." He frequently mentions "problem, reaction, solution," because "TPTB" are all about social engineering and manipulation. The infiltrators who have usurped our gov't's power, have done so, so brazenly, intentionally, as a strategy to create a problem which acts like a predator to cause the reaction of driving the herd of cattle away from it, and into the "loving arms" of our globalist "saviors," which is the solution they want us to beg for.

If you want to make people choose something you know they normally wouldn't, create a duality in which the intended choice is contrasted by something far worse, while minimizing or eliminating all other feasibly better solutions. This is what they do, and on a massive, global scale. They don't want to just kill us all, they want to continue exploiting us; which they can't do if we're dead or rebelling. This is where "cointelpro" and the propaganda machine comes in, and why so many people either have no idea what's really happening in the world, or are too scared and/or confused to do anything about it. It's prohibitively difficult to explain anything to anyone whose frame of reference is engineered to be incompatible with the truth.

reasonevangelist said:

There's another part to the conundrum: the delinquent and compromised government, now exclusively run by established usurpers, "regulatory captors," maintains its self-authorization of the monopoly of force.

This illegitimate government declares we are not allowed to have any real power... or even actually own anything. They declare themselves authorized to take whatever they want from us, because anything we earn, we have earned by using government facilitated resources and infrastructure, in order to survive long enough to earn anything.

They believe they own us. What is the solution to that?

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We remind them that the reverse is the truth. WE are the 99.9% and we are irresistible once we are united. It is their long standing game to divide, confuse- and thus conquer.

We have too many guns in this country for it to get too bad.

If the government gets too out of hand, we have to many people that could reach out from several hundred yards away to try to change the mind of the next person who goes into the office that my hypothetical patriot just made vacant.

Police aren't the problem, they're the symptom. They get their orders and money from the people I was just discussing.

And I tell you, friends, that level of oppression is not too far away.

I recently lost my drivers license. I couldn't find it so I went to the DMV to get a new one. They no longer print them out, the picture is sent off somewhere to be cross checked against facial recognition. Bet your sweet ass they are also recording your face, and other information.