A Cruise Missile Slammed Into the Pentagon on 911

IC3M4L3

Well-Known Member
so let me get this correct a plane hit the pentagon and TOTALLY evaporated? and the plane that crashed in the field the same? hardley any luggage no fusilage and low and behold the only thing that does survive is a charred passport from one terrorist thats still alive??

also ho wthe towers collaped? physics it just dont ad up

and that black dude who saw all the cuts in one of the towers lobbys on the vertical supports?? misteruolsy dies after he says it in public


obviously ur a pro bush american, therfore u WILL NOT belive it isent true,
bet u love your gun laws too an dthink ther not even rmotely wrong?
 

sheskunk

Well-Known Member
so let me get this correct a plane hit the pentagon and TOTALLY evaporated? and the plane that crashed in the field the same? hardley any luggage no fusilage and low and behold the only thing that does survive is a charred passport from one terrorist thats still alive??

also ho wthe towers collaped? physics it just dont ad up

and that black dude who saw all the cuts in one of the towers lobbys on the vertical supports?? misteruolsy dies after he says it in public


obviously ur a pro bush american, therfore u WILL NOT belive it isent true,
bet u love your gun laws too an dthink ther not even rmotely wrong?

So the governement did it? But they did it in a way that would make everyone question it? "Let's make it look like a few planes crashed, but let's make the planes look like they disappeared as well. Or better yet, let's make it look like there was never a plane to begin with." Sounds reasonable.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Just saying I think you are wrong about turbine blades being made of titanium. I,m sure they are made of the high temp steel alloy Inconel or a very similar steel nichel super alloy. When I have time I will read the report. I try to keep an opened mind .

I do believe the american people have been false flagged by thier government before so I don't think you can't really trust what they say
you got examples?

for a "False Flag" to be valid it must be:

1 : substantiated by facts, not conspiracy (ie. pearl harbour is NOT qualified, cuz only crazy people think it was not done by the japanese navy)
2 : deliberately performed by the US Govt or it's agencies (the explosion of the USS Maine is NOT valid since it was an accidental explosion, erroneously attributed to sabotage)
3 : it needs to be NOT RETARDED (yes, there actually was a school at sandy hook, there was a shooting, and people actually died)
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
so let me get this correct a plane hit the pentagon and TOTALLY evaporated? and the plane that crashed in the field the same? hardley any luggage no fusilage and low and behold the only thing that does survive is a charred passport from one terrorist thats still alive??

also ho wthe towers collaped? physics it just dont ad up

and that black dude who saw all the cuts in one of the towers lobbys on the vertical supports?? misteruolsy dies after he says it in public


obviously ur a pro bush american, therfore u WILL NOT belive it isent true,
bet u love your gun laws too an dthink ther not even rmotely wrong?
1 : yes, a plane hit the pentagon, and it left pieces, like turbine rotor hubs, landing gear, twisted metal, etc.
2 : you may believe your samsonite matched luggage set is indestructible, but you are wrong.
3 : the charred passport was from the wtc towers not the pentagon. i realize continuity and keeping the facts straight is hard for troofers, but it is essential.
4: which of the hijackers is still alive? (anticipation intensifies)
5 : the wtc towers collapsed well within the bounds of physics. your failure to grasp the details, and unwillingness to listen to experts on the subject, is classic schmoesby.
6 : some guy says he saw "cuts" in the lobby, and thats the basis for argument?
7 : nobody believes a black guy, whether he is sayin he is a US citizen, or "you can keep your doctor". (lulz)
8 : how did he "misteruolsy" die? (lulz)
9: obviously u r a pro dipshit illiterate an ddont rmotely no ho wto splel (double lulz)
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
So the governement did it? But they did it in a way that would make everyone question it? "Let's make it look like a few planes crashed, but let's make the planes look like they disappeared as well. Or better yet, let's make it look like there was never a plane to begin with." Sounds reasonable.
no, the conspiracy deliberately included obvious flaws in the cover plot, to undermine the troofers with carefully orchestrated holes in their story.

Booo0o000oo0osh was a jedi master, thinking 12 moves ahead.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
no, the conspiracy deliberately included obvious flaws in the cover plot, to undermine the troofers with carefully orchestrated holes in their story.

Booo0o000oo0osh was a jedi master, thinking 12 moves ahead.
Yeah, it was the Muslims, who learnt to fly on Flight Sim 98 (only recently released in Saudi Arabia).

Couldnt have been the organisation that was publicly revealed to be spying and data-warehousing HUGE amounts of personal information, that got caught selling guns to a Mexican cartel, who said Benghazi was over a video, etc. And thats only the last few years.

The US Govt has become an insidious organisation, and your hatred for Muslims is blinding you to that.

But please, do try tell us more about physics, Farm-hand Kynes.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Kynes,
Centrifugal force is a "convenience" used for quantitative discussion (more notably in Lagrangian Mechanics), but if you were to analyze the forces on a rotating body, what you are confusing as "centrifugal" is actually inertia.
Centrifugal would require a Newtonian force that exerts itself in a radial direction from the origin. When you let go of the ball on string, or a turbine fin has an instantaneously ubiquitous fracture at its base, what direction does the projectile go? OUTWARD?
No...
It goes in a direction tangential to the radial arc traced (i.e. the "theta hat" direction). It may appear outward, but it is not.
Take a look at the attached PDF from John Taylor's text-book discussing the "fictious" inertial forces and when they are "applied".

It's funny, I think back to when I was told these things, and I had the same sort of reaction as you. It took me a while (and lots of scribbling) to finally come to grips with the subject and accept it for what it is.

As for your powdered aluminum. An engine block is made from CAST aluminum, which is different from Aluminum alloys produced for general fabrication. Just like cast Steel is different from Structural Steel. Different crystal structures implies different reaction rates.
If you've ever tried welding any of these materials, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.
So trying to use an example of how cast aluminum oxidizes versus aluminum plates or extrusions is not an apples to apples comparison.
BTW did you see the reply from the expert on that aluminum link of yours?

Materials want to achieve a lower energy state,(this is where Enthalpy comes in --Heck) in the case of Aluminum and steel they are more stable with an ionic bond between the metal and oxygen. This is basically the process of burning (i.e. add heat + O2, and you get an activated complex seeking the lowest energy state, being the Oxide); corrosion of the metals is the same process at a much slower speed. To compare Aluminum to Steel. Aluminum is more reactive than Steel, this is why it costs so much more to extract it from its ore.

However, aluminum is corrosion resistant because when it corrodes the surface of the plate is covered by the product of the corrosion. The product of this corrosion is Aluminum Oxide; this is a ceramic and is about the 3rd hardest substance known. The thin coating protects the aluminum under the surface and stops further corrosion. Steel on the other hand when it corrodes the Iron Ferrite peels straight off and exposes the underlying material this is why steel rusts so fast. Aluminum and Iron will burn as will any other metal, if it has a sufficiently sized particle. For both metals it is a very small size. A single plate will simply react on the outer layers however the outer skin will by covered in ash from the combustion and protect the inner plate.

Here's another useful link for identifying what type of alloy your engine block is made from before you go blast it with your pew-pew projectile-launching cylinder.
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=cast_aluminum_alloys
The point is, you are not going to start any fires from blasting aluminum with projectiles or smashing a bat against a wall, either, unless one is dealing with a sufficient mass of free particles.
Go ahead and try smashing your noggin with an aluminum frying pan, and see if the pan turns to dust before catching on fire.
You can wear your fedora, too. For added excitement, try sprinkling some Iron (II) Oxide and Sulfur on top!
Hot time in the old town toniiiiiiiiight

Finally, my reference to the strength of aluminum going up under compression was not a reference to shooting it (I can see how you may have confused that). It was a reference to how a plane can punch through walls. Impact will compress the structure and components, increasing local strength (force vector dependent, of course).
This paradoxically allows for more penetration, albeit I am talking about tiny changes (probably approaching negligible, especially in the Flt. 77 case). However, it does not support the idea of increased weakness or fragility, which is a point some may try to make.


But heyyyy...I could be wrong, right?
 

Attachments

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Kynes,
Centrifugal force is a "convenience" used for quantitative discussion (more notably in Lagrangian Mechanics), but if you were to analyze the forces on a rotating body, what you are confusing as "centrifugal" is actually inertia.
Centrifugal would require a Newtonian force that exerts itself in a radial direction from the origin. When you let go of the ball on string, or a turbine fin has an instantaneously ubiquitous fracture at its base, what direction does the projectile go? OUTWARD?
No...
It goes in a direction tangential to the radial arc traced (i.e. the "theta hat" direction). It may appear outward, but it is not.
Take a look at the attached PDF from John Taylor's text-book discussing the "fictious" inertial forces and when they are "applied".

It's funny, I think back to when I was told these things, and I had the same sort of reaction as you. It took me a while (and lots of scribbling) to finally come to grips with the subject and accept it for what it is.

As for your powdered aluminum. An engine block is made from CAST aluminum, which is different from Aluminum alloys produced for general fabrication. Just like cast Steel is different from Structural Steel. Different crystal structures implies different reaction rates.
If you've ever tried welding any of these materials, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.
So trying to use an example of how cast aluminum oxidizes versus aluminum plates or extrusions is not an apples to apples comparison.
BTW did you see the reply from the expert on that aluminum link of yours?

Materials want to achieve a lower energy state,(this is where Enthalpy comes in --Heck) in the case of Aluminum and steel they are more stable with an ionic bond between the metal and oxygen. This is basically the process of burning (i.e. add heat + O2, and you get an activated complex seeking the lowest energy state, being the Oxide); corrosion of the metals is the same process at a much slower speed. To compare Aluminum to Steel. Aluminum is more reactive than Steel, this is why it costs so much more to extract it from its ore.
However, aluminum is corrosion resistant because when it corrodes the surface of the plate is covered by the product of the corrosion. The product of this corrosion is Aluminum Oxide; this is a ceramic and is about the 3rd hardest substance known. The thin coating protects the aluminum under the surface and stops further corrosion. Steel on the other hand when it corrodes the Iron Ferrite peels straight off and exposes the underlying material this is why steel rusts so fast. Aluminum and Iron will burn as will any other metal, if it has a sufficiently sized particle. For both metals it is a very small size. A single plate will simply react on the outer layers however the outer skin will by covered in ash from the combustion and protect the inner plate.

Here's another useful link for identifying what type of alloy your engine block is made from before you go blast it with your pew-pew projectile-launching cylinder.
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=cast_aluminum_alloys
The point is, you are not going to start any fires from blasting aluminum with projectiles or smashing a bat against a wall, either, unless one is dealing with a sufficient mass of free particles.
Go ahead and try smashing your noggin with an aluminum frying pan, and see if the pan turns to dust before catching on fire.
You can wear your fedora, too. For added excitement, try sprinkling some Iron (II) Oxide and Sulfur on top!
Hot time in the old town toniiiiiiiiight

Finally, my reference to the strength of aluminum going up under compression was not a reference to shooting it (I can see how you may have confused that). It was a reference to how a plane can punch through walls. Impact will compress the structure and components, increasing local strength (force vector dependent, of course).
This paradoxically allows for more penetration, albeit I am talking about tiny changes (probably approaching negligible, especially in the Flt. 77 case). However, it does not support the idea of increased weakness or fragility, which is a point some may try to make.


But heyyyy...I could be wrong, right?
teh fux?

i am aware centrifugal force is not a property of matter, and that it is a property of inertia, thats pure semantics.
objects in rotation, when released from their restraint move in a direction which is in fact the direction they would have been going if unrestrained.
if you wish to pretend that centrifugal force is imaginary, then you must also assign that same fictitious nature to inertia.

aluminium doesnt come in a forged variety, nor does it come in a super strong version that makes it suitable for use as armour, crush bearings, or in fact, any variety that will withstand forces that would heat it (low melt point), abrade it (low abrasion resistance) compress it (low hardness and low tensile strength) flex it (low malleability) or shock it (it is both weak and brittle when compared to steel or even copper). take a piece of aluminium stock and beat it with a hammer on an anvil, and in short order youll have tiny broken pieces ( i have done this)

as a solid chunk of stuff, aluminium doesnt burn readily, but if you shave it on a lathe, grind it with a file, or powder it with a grinding wheel, you can light it on fire easily (add a little iron oxide powder and you have a party!)

why doesnt your aluminium frying pan catch fire on the stove? because it transfers the heat throughout it's mass rapidly, making ignition difficult. as a powder it burns like a motherfucker.

alloying aluminium with other metals doesnt magically transform it into "adamantium" suitable for making wolverine style blades, it is still a weak brittle metal that spalls when applied with friction and pressure (thats why aluminium engine blocks have steel sleeves for the pistons), and while aluminium is highly resistant to natural oxidation thanks to it's patina of aluminium oxide which stops further oxidation, even a weak solution of any caustic material will pit it out rapidly (like when you put your aluminium pans in the dishwasher) in a stronger solution, it dissolves fast.

US Army tests on the Bradley Fighting Vehicle clearly demonstrated that when hit with a high velocity round (even non-incendiary rounds), aluminium armour can, and does powder then ignite. with a secondary fuel source it burns like a chanukah candle.

BLOCK aluminium "increases strength" when under pressure, but airplanes arent solid blocks of aluminium, they have "crumple zones" that allow it to collapse rather than resiting impact forces.

"stressed aluminium" has been used for a long time in making aircraft skins and fuselage structures, because it is LIGHT, not because it is particularly strong. "stressing" it allows you to make the shit even thinner without sacrificing much strength, but no matter how you slice it, aluminium is WEAK AND BRITTLE (not many aluminium knives, axes, wrenches, crowbars, hammers, or saws out there) it has shit strength. even titanium doesnt work well as a wrench or hammer because it is brittle.

if aluminium and it's alloys had the strength and versatility you ascribe to it, then my entire tool box would be full of shit made from this Wonder Metal Of The Millennium, but it aint.
 

socalcoolmx

Well-Known Member
you got examples?

for a "False Flag" to be valid it must be:

1 : substantiated by facts, not conspiracy (ie. pearl harbour is NOT qualified, cuz only crazy people think it was not done by the japanese navy)
2 : deliberately performed by the US Govt or it's agencies (the explosion of the USS Maine is NOT valid since it was an accidental explosion, erroneously attributed to sabotage)
3 : it needs to be NOT RETARDED (yes, there actually was a school at sandy hook, there was a shooting, and people actually died)
Got a chance to browse the article and it was good read at the end I believe it says the turbine blades are made of nichel based super alloy (inconel) with air cooling system, not ti

I believe that americans have been mislead

As for false incedents what you could really clear up and explain to me is the attack on the USS Liberty and the us response and cover up afterward and also what about gulf of tonkin
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Got a chance to browse the article and it was good read at the end I believe it says the turbine blades are made of nichel based super alloy (inconel) with air cooling system, not ti

I believe that americans have been mislead

As for false incedents what you could really clear up and explain to me is the attack on the USS Liberty and the us response and cover up afterward and also what about gulf of tonkin
the intake (compressor) turbines ARE made of titanium, as are the exhaust turbines (differing alloys for different jobs) adding nickel t the mix may increase heat resistance, but titanium is still titanium, and still works (at temps above it's melting point) because it is extremely strong (if brittle), and the engines have elaborate cooling systems to dissipate the heat so the fins dont melt, even though they are operating ABOVE THEIR MELTING POINT!

the USS liberty was NOT a "False Flag"
the attack was not a pretext for anything, the US Govt profited not at all by it.
in detail, the USS Liberty was a SPY SHIP operating in a war zone, and it got hit by israeli jets either by mistake or because those particular sabra were pissed off at uncle sam over summat.
it was covered up (sorta, but not really) because it would have damaged US/Israeli relations and the US Govt figured it would be better to let it slide rather than start shit.
the US (despite the claims of the international press) is not a bully with a chip on it's shoulder strutting around the club, trying to pick fights.

the gulf of tonkin incident was also not a false flag.
the USS Maddox was a DESTROYER operating in international waters, when it was attacked by viet cong torpedo boats.
the Maddox was ACTUALLY attacked, by ACTUAL forces of the ACTUAL nation of vietnam.

in before the USS Pueblo, the spy plane forced down in china etc etc etc, NONE of these aree "False Flag" events.

it's called a "False Flag" because one or more of the participants are pretending to be from a country other than their own (hence, "sailing under a False Flag")
a valid hypothetical example of a US "False Flag Operation" would be, US agents planting bombs in an embassy overseas, blowing it up, and then claiming Al Quaeda did it to reinvigorate the "War on Terror" that hasnt happened EVER, the closest anyone can come to "False Flag" operations from the US is the explosion on the USS Maine in havana harbour, and that was an accident, followed by an erroneous accusation of sabotage.

a real world example of a "False Flag" operation would be the Reichstag Fire, which was perpetrated by Hitler's SA (brownshirts) to frame the communists
 
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socalcoolmx

Well-Known Member
the intake (compressor) turbines ARE made of titanium, as are the exhaust turbines (differing alloys for different jobs) adding nickel t the mix may increase heat resistance, but titanium is still titanium, and still works (at temps above it's melting point) because it is extremely strong (if brittle), and the engines have elaborate cooling systems to dissipate the heat so the fins dont melt, even though they are operating ABOVE THEIR MELTING POINT!

the USS liberty was NOT a "False Flag"
the attack was not a pretext for anything, the US Govt profited not at all by it.
in detail, the USS Liberty was a SPY SHIP operating in a war zone, and it got hit by israeli jets either by mistake or because those particular sabra were pissed off at uncle sam over summat.
it was covered up (sorta, but not really) because it would have damaged US/Israeli relations and the US Govt figured it would be better to let it slide rather than start shit.
the US (despite the claims of the international press) is not a bully with a chip on it's shoulder strutting around the club, trying to pick fights.

the gulf of tonkin incident was also not a false flag.
the USS Maddox was a DESTROYER operating in international waters, when it was attacked by viet cong torpedo boats.
the Maddox was ACTUALLY attacked, by ACTUAL forces of the ACTUAL nation of vietnam.

in before the USS Pueblo, the spy plane forced down in china etc etc etc, NONE of these aree "False Flag" events.

it's called a "False Flag" because one or more of the participants are pretending to be from a country other than their own (hence, "sailing under a False Flag")
a valid hypothetical example of a US "False Flag Operation" would be, US agents planting bombs in an embassy overseas, blowing it up, and then claiming Al Quaeda did it to reinvigorate the "War on Terror" that hasnt happened EVER, the closest anyone can come to "False Flag" operations from the US is the explosion on the USS Maine in havana harbour, and that was an accident, followed by an erroneous accusation of sabotage.

a real world example of a "False Flag" operation would be the Reichstag Fire, which was perpetrated by Hitler's SA (brownshirts) to frame the communists
Why did Johnson call back fighters from aiding Liberty and didn't we almost Nuke Cairo? Maybe some kind of botched false flag? doesn't fit your definition because Israel carried out attack with unmarked mirage jets or possibly Israel stuck on her own then blame Egypt and Johnson went along. Something seems fishy
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Why did Johnson call back fighters from aiding Liberty and didn't we almost Nuke Cairo? Maybe some kind of botched false flag? doesn't fit your definition because Israel carried out attack with unmarked mirage jets or possibly Israel stuck on her own then blame Egypt and Johnson went along. Something seems fishy
israeli jets were NOT unmarked, nor did they try to frame egypt.
nobody "almost nuked" anybody.

it was a fuckup, shit happens in war zones.
 

socalcoolmx

Well-Known Member
israeli jets were NOT unmarked, nor did they try to frame egypt.
nobody "almost nuked" anybody.

it was a fuckup, shit happens in war zones.
The turbine blades on the exhaust side are made of nickel based super alloy no titanium in them
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
The turbine blades on the exhaust side are made of nickel based super alloy no titanium in them
Because the turbine is subjected to intense heat, each blade has labyrinthine airways cut into it. Cool air from the compressor is routed through these passages, enabling the turbine to function in gas streams whose temperature is higher than the melting point of the alloy from which it is made.
The intake fan at the front of the engine must be extremely strong so that it doesn't fracture when large birds and other debris are sucked into its blades; it is thus made of a titanium alloy. The intermediate compressor is made from aluminum, while the high pressure section nearer the intense heat of the combustor is made of nickel and titanium alloys better able to withstand extreme temperatures. The combustion chamber is also made of nickel and titanium alloys, and the turbine blades, which must endure the most intense heat of the engine, consist of nickel-titanium-aluminum alloys. Often, both the combustion chamber and the turbine receive special ceramic coatings that better enable them to resist heat. The inner duct of the exhaust system is crafted from titanium, while the outer exhaust duct is made from composites—synthetic fibers held together with resins. Although fiberglass was used for years, it is now being supplanted by Kevlar, which is even lighter and stronger. The thrust reverser consists of titanium alloy.
~ http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Jet-Engine.html

http://www.rolls-royce.com/interactive_games/journey03/
accept it.

titanium throughout in the fan blades, some are alloyed with nickel, but they are still titanium, and yes, they DO operate in temps beyond their melting point, and yes, there IS centrifugal force.

once all that shit, operating at the outside edge of tolerances hits a big ass bomb resistant reinforced concrete wall and it's facing stones, the failure of the parts is dramatic and total.

Edit: the "Nickel Based Super Alloy" you are talking about is most likely Inconel 625 which DOES contain titanium
 
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Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Doc,

Actual false flag by the United States, Operation Ajax. We orchestrated protests and had the current Shah flee. That's the whole reason behind the Iranian Hostage Crisis that Reagan got us out of.

It took Iran over 25 years to figure out the CIA had fucked them.

http://www.coldwar.org/articles/50s/OperationAjax.asp
you may have spotted one, but it hardly qualifies as a "False Flag" in the context Troofers use the term, as actions against the US and it's interests, and an attempt to frame another state or group as the perps.

setting up a coup in a foreign land in secret is orders of magnitude away from blowing up building in the US to create a "Phony War For Oil" which has thus far failed to produce any oil...
 
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