Who thinks they are NOT a slave....think again...you are

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Rob, you know I address your posts, often point by point so even where I do not, there is noneed for your sort of scorn. I asked you to make the post legible for us and if you really are entertaining comments you will do so.

Thank you.
You are correct, you sometimes address my posts. I appreciate that, thank you. Although I think sometimes your addressing my posts often winds up with, "that's the way things are or that's the way things work". Which is really not a refutation, it is more of an admission that your arguments end at a given point and rely on less of an explanation and more of a responsive platitude, in my opinion those "arguments" fall short of a refutation. I do appreciate your polite demeanor though.

I'm not a scornful person, sorry if it appears that way to you. I'm a peaceful person seeking ways of creating more self determination and individual responsibility. It's pretty common knowledge around here that I am not a fan of coercive government. I also believe it is self evident that no coercive government can protect a person from coercive situations.


Also I'll go on record as saying that "anarchy" is neither good or bad, but it presents the opportunity to step away from something that IS bad, a coercive government. Anarchy doesn't necessarily create or enable "chaos" as is commonly believed. Perhaps I'll address that later.

So anyhow, it appears you've still not addressed any of the points made in the article. Why not give it whirl?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
In the context of the above quote I meant free to rape, rob, murder and generally do whatever we damn well please....
All of those things you mention are bad. How has a coercive government prevented those things from happening? I'll go so far as saying it hasn't.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
do you even history, sistah?

do you not understand what essentially means?

i essentially don't get whipped if i take a vacation.

i essentially get to earn wages for my labor.

i essentially do not have to witness my daughter being sold away from me at age eight.

i essentially do not have to witness my wife being raped.

to compare yourself to a slave is pure ignorance and stupidity. i can not believe that someone like you even has the audacity to post around here with the shit you spew.

You essentially fail to understand the point of the article. What happens to you if you fail to pay for other peoples children to go to a Prussian model "public education" school used in the USA?

What happens to you if you fail to obey an edict not to put certain substances in your own body? I could go on, but I suspect you will revert to your standard diversions.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
All of those things you mention are bad. How has a coercive government prevented those things from happening? I'll go so far as saying it hasn't.
It doesnt prevent them, it prevents them from continuing.

I cannot understand how you dont see things deteriorating from where they are now to something much worse if there were no authorities to stop criminal behavior or at least arrest criminals after the behavior.

I guess when you are free you just shrug your shoulders if your wife is raped and murdered because everyone is free to do whatever they want...
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
You are correct, you sometimes address my posts. I appreciate that, thank you. Although I think sometimes your addressing my posts often winds up with, "that's the way things are or that's the way things work". Which is really not a refutation, it is more of an admission that your arguments end at a given point and rely on less of an explanation and more of a responsive platitude, in my opinion those "arguments" fall short of a refutation. I do appreciate your polite demeanor though.

I'm not a scornful person, sorry if it appears that way to you. I'm a peaceful person seeking ways of creating more determination and individual responsibility. It's pretty common knowledge around here that I am not a fan of coercive government. I also believe it is self evident that no coercive government can protect a person from other coercive situations.


Also I'll go on record as saying that "anarchy" is neither good or bad, but it presents the opportunity to step away from something that IS bad, a coercive government. Anarchy doesn't necessarily create or enable "chaos" as is commonly believed. Perhaps I'll address that later.

So anyhow, it appears you've still not addressed any of the points made in the article. Why not give it whirl?

I do often wind up saying "that is the way things are", mostly because I do not forsee mankind changing in any way that would suit the purposes of your social model. What I should be saying is "that is the way homo sapien is". So long as man is a social animal, it will have a herd mentality and herd behavior and herd needs. Until that ends, and until this globe reduces the burden of prolific mankind itself, your ideas, idealistic and rational as they are, cannot be forced into practice on any large scale. Given that to be the case, there must be some intermediary solution, you have not offered anything but an all or nothing approach and it may be possible that there is no such thing.

I will look again at your post, but will not read it unless it is legible to me.
 

Wilksey

Well-Known Member
You essentially fail to understand the point of the article. What happens to you if you fail to pay for other peoples children to go to a Prussian model "public education" school used in the USA?

What happens to you if you fail to obey an edict not to put certain substances in your own body? I could go on, but I suspect you will revert to your standard diversions.
Easy.

You get thrown in a cage.

OR.....

You get beaten and / or shot, and then thrown in a cage.

OR.....

You get killed.

Too simple, really.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
It doesnt prevent them, it prevents them from continuing.

I cannot understand how you dont see things deteriorating from where they are now to something much worse if there were no authorities to stop criminal behavior or at least arrest criminals after the behavior.

I guess when you are free you just shrug your shoulders if your wife is raped and murdered because everyone is free to do whatever they want...

It is unlikely that Rob's loved ones will be prevented from being raped by the government - you know that NLX. We have agreed upon that before. WE are "free to do as we please", we may also be caught and punished for our "freedom". For the most part, the honest ones among us do not need laws keeping us from raping or murdering - I know I don't. And if we do have that penchant, the law itself will not stop us - at least the first time we commit such deeds.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I do often wind up saying "that is the way things are", mostly because I do not forsee mankind changing in any way that would suit the purposes of your social model. What I should be saying is "that is the way homo sapien is". So long as man is a social animal, it will have a herd mentality and herd behavior and herd needs. Until that ends, and until this globe reduces the burden of prolific mankind itself, your ideas, idealistic and rational as they are, cannot be forced into practice on any large scale. Given that to be the case, there must be some intermediary solution, you have not offered anything but an all or nothing approach and it may be possible that there is no such thing.

I will look again at your post, but will not read it unless it is legible to me.
Look a few posts higher. Paddy was kind enuff to re post it. I hope to be back online later to address some of the questions. Peace.
 

Someacdude

Active Member
We are and always have been industrial slaves, when was the last time you got a paycheck and wondered what you where going to do with all the money.
Even being self employed we only trade 3 or 4 bosses for 3 or 4 hundred , unless you get uber rich you are a slave.

Dont think so, break one of their rules, even on your property.

Slavery in its raw form is more prevalent today than ever in human history , things havent gotten better, they are worse, they took the chains off but no one is free, people in Europe and Australia cant even own guns , we are losing more and more rights every day and after all this to many look down on a creator, see we are becoming more and more retarded every day.


Mans had thousands of years to make things better, instead greed fuels food production , and all our other basic needs and now because of the socialist these brain dead idiots continue to vote in, we cant even be responsible for our own health , well you can, if you want to pay a fine or whatever the ghestopo decide to do.

We havent been free for a very, very long time.
Nor will we be, for you libs with your utopia , step out of line and see what happens to you, your fuhrer will turn on you in a heartbeat.
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
Strange that a voluntaryist is posting an article from an anarchist blog, considering any anarchist would consider your views to fall under fascism, Rob Roy. As well as those of other right wing "libertarians".

Wage slavery is one of Anarchism's most hated social systems.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
To those unfamiliar with the libertarian-anarchist world, this is probably a jarring headline. I’m not a slave, you may think, I don’t have a master. I don’t work for free. I don’t get whipped. I own property. I am free. Libertarians and anarchists take heat for using the word “slave.” It’s not a light word to throw around, either. I agree. Slavery is very serious. To clarify, though, I’m not talking about chattel slavery. Chattel slavery is a horrific blight on the human race. It’s reasonable to interpret the use of the word as crass or naive. But not being bound by chains or ropes, and living in a nice house with nice amenities, and voting, and thinking you own yourself, does not mean you are not a slave. It’s not the physical condition of slavery that makes it slavery. Slavery is the denial of self-determination.

In the 1880s, former slave John Parker wrote that “[brutality] was an incident to the curse, but the real injury was the making of a human being an animal without hope.” While the pain and savagery of chattel slavery were inflicted on people, those were additional injustices to the state of being owned. The definition of slavery from Oxford Dictionary is:

“a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.”

Now that we have the definition, let’s test my claim.

Do you work for free? Most people think this is one of the main characteristics of slavery. Historically, this is only partially true. Not only were there servants and house-slaves that were allowed a pretty high standard of living, but even those who worked the fields were paid in shelter, food, and clothing. Slaves with greater skills were even allowed a meager wage to spend when they were allowed to go to town. If being denied 100% of your labor makes you a slave, at what percentage are you no longer a slave? Today we pay taxes. While we may keep a large portion of our income, we do not keep all of it. When you file your taxes, take into account not only your income taxes, but sales tax, gasoline tax, sin tax, and every other tax imaginable, and you’re likely to have something close to a 50% tax burden. Make sure to remember that you may never see the products of your taxes in your community, since much of it goes to paying off debt and fighting wars. If you only own half of your labor, then you are a slave.

Do you get whipped or bound? To answer this question, we have to look at why slaves were whipped and bound. Firstly, it was a punishment. But really, it was to intimidate other slaves. It’s very important to understand that on the average plantation the proportion of slaves to non-slaves was at least five-to-one. So, it was necessary (in the mind of a slave-holder) to intimidate the slaves in order to prevent an uprising. To illustrate that we can compare chattel slavery to citizenship, keep in mind you are bound in a much more intelligent fashion. 5,000 innocent Americans were killed by police in the last 13 years. You’ve probably heard about the mass-surveillance and government intrusion into our privacy, as well as assassination and kidnapping of innocent individuals. While the purpose of this brutality on the part of State officials may not be to intimidate or control us, the effect has certainly been achieved. Consider those along with the Patriot Act and the NDAA, and you have a powerful recipe for rule by fear.

Do you own your property? The short answer is no. You probably didn’t build your house, but even if you did, the land at some point belonged to the government. The builders obtained permission from the government to even begin building. And even after all this, you still pay property taxes. As for other property, you pay sales taxes when you purchase it. You probably pay taxes on vehicles and most other things. So, if we apply the same logic to property as we did to income, if you do not own it entirely, is it really yours? No. You are borrowing your house and your property from the government. If you do not pay your taxes, the State will “re-possess” your property, implying that the State possessed it first. The government assumes you are only renting your property from them. You do not own it. You have never owned it.
Here’s the most important question: do you own yourself? A slave, by definition, is the legal property of someone else. If you were born, you are a citizen of the country you were born in. The “social contract” is said to be an implicit agreement all citizens make when they are born to follow that country’s laws, and prostrate themselves before the authority of the State. It is sometimes argued that voting gives you a voice in the political process, and you are therefore autonomous. That is not true. A slave who can pick a master is still a slave. Ask yourself these questions: Can you renounce your citizenship and still own property in your country? Can you renounce your citizenship and still trade in your country? Most importantly, can you ignore the law? No. The government suffocates any hope for true free will, even regarding victimless crimes, because a slaveholder must deny the self-determination of their slaves, or else they aren’t slaves. You are subject to the will of the State. You are not your master.

To conclude, there are a lot of noticeable differences between chattel slavery and modern slavery. Those differences afford us much more safety and comfort, but this is an evolution in slavery, not freedom. The chains are invisible, which makes today’s slavery much more effective. We are regarded by the State as livestock to supply the master with money. A “free range” tax cow. We are given a degree of freedom that chattel slaves were not, because being cramped and locked up drops the productivity of the livestock, due to sickness and depression. Taking livestock to pasture benefits the farmer. Occasionally an animal will run off, but if you set up enough punishment, and you give your animals a comfortable cage, they will return.

Today, the average citizen thinks life is good overall, and that the system is necessary. In reality, humans are manipulated by the State, allowed to choose their occupation, to think they own property, and to feel free, so they will pay more taxes. So, the next time you say, “I’m not a slave,” look around you. This is serious.

This is perhaps one way of looking at a situation. Let us look at it another way. You join a club. The club charges dues, for those dues you get certain priveleges and you may or may not take advantage of those priveleges. Someone else may. Should you renounce your memebership in that club, you are no longer entitled to those benefits. You don't get to use the club house or drink from that keg that everyone chipped into. Do you "own" that keg by virtue of your having paid for a portion of the contents? You do not. Every year a leader is chosen from among the club members, and he may alter the rules, but you are all a party to the rules because you selected the man making them. Are you his slave? Now certainly there is the fact that in real life you do not select the club, you are a defacto member by virtue of your being born in a certain place, but as I have said before, you are indeed free to join any other club that will have you.

Ownership? What does anyone truely own? I have said this before, tell the termites that you own the house. Tell your next door neighbor who refuses to pay his share of fire protection, and his fire threatens your home that you OWN your home - at least you do until it burns down.

This government is in place partly to protect you from the neglegence of others. I don't think my house will catch fire, so I shouldn't pay the fire department. I do not think I will ever catch an infectious disease so I don't pay the CDC. I will never need to drive from here to Texas so why should I pay for any roads but the ones I alone believe are in my interest? Now what shall I do if I find I need something manufactured in Texas? contribute specificly to that road? I do not think that we will ever be invaded by a foreign army so I should not have to pay, yet how will our armed forces know not to protect me and my belongings?

Taxes are the common method of providing for the general needs of the citizens, all of them, even those who are not yet born. It is a part of our culture to provide even for them. THey are not your children or my children, they are our children because we expect they also will have to get along with each other.

What is left out of this "slavery" article is the particulars were there no such thing as "slavery" as you call it. When will you pay for the incarceration of that murderer, who has affected no one but yourself by killing your loved one? Who pays for the monitoring of disputes between owners who's interests conflict?

My story remains. You "own" property, later someone else builds a coal fired plant next to you and this plant makes it not only impossible for you to live there but impossible for you to sell. Who pays for the proceedures that prove that he is damaging your land? When do they pay? Who pays for the adjudication proceedings, and when? The list is nearly endless as you are a part of a very complex society. There can be no free negotiation with each enforcement body, each regulatory system for your small piece of their protection.



Much as that word is hated round here, collectivism is a portion of how we interact with each other
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I just explained the difference between a slave and a serf and why I am not exactly a slave and then you attack me for comparing myself to a slave.

How can I possibly respond to the ramblings of an insane person?
you are essentially a slave, the cage is just bigger.

and you don't have to watch your wife get raped and your daughter sold away from you while you work for free and get whipped for exercising your free will.

well, typically that is.

we really have no idea what you are capable of.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
you are essentially a slave, the cage is just bigger.

and you don't have to watch your wife get raped and your daughter sold away from you while you work for free and get whipped for exercising your free will.

well, typically that is.

we really have no idea what you are capable of.
You really have no idea about anything.

Go find another straw man to fuck...
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You essentially fail to understand the point of the article. What happens to you if you fail to pay for other peoples children to go to a Prussian model "public education" school used in the USA?

What happens to you if you fail to obey an edict not to put certain substances in your own body? I could go on, but I suspect you will revert to your standard diversions.
i can tell ya what doesn't happen: my wife is not raped and my daughter is not sold away from me at age eight while i am forced to work for free all my life and whipped if i dare to exercise free will.

you need some perspective, ya whiny little bitch.
 

Someacdude

Active Member
You really have no idea about anything.

Go find another straw man to fuck...
The left here argue with rhetoric , basically bs since they cant think . I put most on ignore since absolutely nothing is gained from trying to have an adult conversation with them, i highly recommend it .
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Easy.

You get thrown in a cage.

OR.....

You get beaten and / or shot, and then thrown in a cage.

OR.....

You get killed.

Too simple, really.
no, that's not what happens if you don't pay property taxes.

you might get sent to collections, eventually your house might be taken away.

but your family will not be sold into slavery.

this narrative of white persecution from racists is getting absurd and lacks all historical perspective.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The left here argue with rhetoric , basically bs since they cant think . I put most on ignore since absolutely nothing is gained from trying to have an adult conversation with them, i highly recommend it .
right now, the "adults" are comparing themselves to slaves because they cannot fuck little boys in the ass at will and skip out on the property taxes they owe.
 

Someacdude

Active Member
[h=2]This message is hidden because UncleBuck is on your ignore list.[/h]
Ya know i used to drink , havent for almost 20 years and today i just cant stand to be around people who are drunk.


The same goes for being stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
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