zimmerman news

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GreatwhiteNorth

GreatwhiteNorth

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All white-noise chatter aside - it's all about the final verdict by the 12.
I'm pretty sure Z will duck out of this, but it is entertaining (in a rather demented sorta way) to watch those in the other camp squirm and rationalize a bit.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
Another day, another lie Zimmerman gets caught up in.
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is this the one where he said he had no idea about SYG even though he took classes in it?

that one is new to me, and it is pretty damning.

innocent people don't need to lie, so why in the hell would he lie so blatantly like that?
 
B

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
is this the one where he said he had no idea about SYG even though he took classes in it?

that one is new to me, and it is pretty damning.

innocent people don't need to lie, so why in the hell would he lie so blatantly like that?
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Because I'm sure we all remember everything we have ever been taught in a class.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
Because I'm sure we all remember everything we have ever been taught in a class.
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he was trying to get into criminal justice, he wanted to make a career on knowing about SYG and other laws.

did you make sure to do enough smack to wipe out all that lawyer training? it sure seems like you did.
 
B

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
he was trying to get into criminal justice, he wanted to make a career on knowing about SYG and other laws.

did you make sure to do enough smack to wipe out all that lawyer training? it sure seems like you did.
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Since ignorance of the law is no defense, then possible knowledge of the law must equate to guilt... I see what you did there.
 
Impman

Impman

Well-Known Member
GreatwhiteNorth said:
All white-noise chatter aside - it's all about the final verdict by the 12.
I'm pretty sure Z will duck out of this, but it is entertaining (in a rather demented sorta way) to watch those in the other camp squirm and rationalize a bit.
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You have not followed the trial at all have you? there are only 6 jurors you fool.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
Since ignorance of the law is no defense, then possible knowledge of the law must equate to guilt... I see what you did there.
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not at all.

but telling people you are not familiar with the law when you clearly are is quite puzzling.

and again to your original point, i don't remember how to program in C++, but i sure remember that i took C++. i don't remember how to make matrices do weird tricks, but i do remember that i learned how to do that in linear algebra. i may have forgot exactly what i learned in some classes, but i won't forget that i took those classes.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
Since ignorance of the law is no defense, then possible knowledge of the law must equate to guilt... I see what you did there.
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See that is another piece of bullshit we were told, that is so wrong.....I have a giant list of these for myself. That's the Jim Crow Laws, attitude, I kid you not. It is so untrue. In fact it is the opposite, as we find out.

That is the ONLY excuse. Law in the USA is strictly on intent. No intent, no law breaking. Ignorance is our only excuse.

It is the difference between being a tax cheat and IRS form dumbass, for example. It is the difference between Westley Snipes and me. INTENT to break the Law. It is pure 9th A. "what fucking law???"

OTH, there are many, many crimes now that have implied intent. It makes sense. Possession of burglary tools, for example.

In fact, the reasonable person doctrine, is about the fact that most common laws are very reasonable and don't take a rocket scientist to know right from wrong, in a cultural sense. There is no innate sense of right and wrong. That is eugenics thinking. A master race with fine perceptions built in from breeding will still only know what is learned.

And there are some things we all say are wrong.

- killing a minor child
- acting as a vigilante
- lying in a official setting

So, here in this case, it is knowledge of the law, that matters. It goes to weighing the scales of Justice. Why did he say he knew nothing about it when his prof said they went through it in detail?

So, if Z was bleeding with a broken nose, and Trevon was "pounding" "smashing" "holding (my) mouth and nose"...

Where is the Z blood? How come there is no Z blood on Trevon's sleeves, on his hands, etc?

OH, it was raining, boy Doer you sure can be stupid. Dream on.

There was plenty of Trevon blood on Z. OH, and it was the same rain. No prints or DNA on the gun. Oh, it was raining!!

But, no Trevon material. And the rain did not wash off the Zim materials. Same rain. Dream on.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
is this the one where he said he had no idea about SYG even though he took classes in it?

that one is new to me, and it is pretty damning.

innocent people don't need to lie, so why in the hell would he lie so blatantly like that?
Click to expand...
SYG is irrelevant here, there is no SYG claim in this case, at least not yet.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
SYG is irrelevant here, there is no SYG claim in this case, at least not yet.
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Oh for fucks sake...SYG is just a quality of self defense in FL. SYG is only about if you have to brandish, warn, run, wound, etc? it is a self defense Doctrine.

Is it allowed in NY or MA? No.

But, CA, TX, FL and many other States don't required that you run. And, every self defense case in FL is under the qualities of "right to carry" "protection of self and others" and "castle doctrine."

SYG is simply "castle doctrine" applied to a person outside of the home. You don't have to try to get away.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Say, did they ever present the autopsy report? Or did they just enter it, with no witness questioned?

I just read it. A few things of interest. Look at the is entrance wound and ask yourself. Zim is getting "pounded," smashed" "mouth held" "squirming to get off the concrete, squirming the contact is so close, in fear of immediate harm. Now, we know Z is a lefty, writes with his left hand. It is on the DNA swab video. Yet, he holsters on his right and he did the re-inact with a right had draw.....OK?

Just look at this wound. Looks carefully placed over the heart to me.

Wound.JPG

And it was not point blank. And it was straight through. It is serious contortion to do this in the situation described.

Lay on you back. Perp is on top. You feel him going for your gun...Z even said that key phrase.".free gun, no ones gun"...big lie. And so if you are that scared and that close you fire aft about a 45 x 45 degree angle. This was a center of heart, straight in.

The wound for a righty should be lower much farther right, outside and below the nipple at least, and angled thru the chest. How does anyone get the gun, centered like that, and say he was still being pounded, smashed, etc?

Fear will get that shot out as soon as I clear leather. It can't wait that couple of miliseconds to get the gun up, centered, aimed, etc. I might have even shot myself in the process of fear.

And Zim would have actually put the gun up for grabs in the middle of the squirmy area. It didn't happen like that, I don't think.

Page 3, 1st para. "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range. Further examination demonstrates the wound track passes directly front to back...."

Trevon was not even that well. "There is a cardiac monitor pad on the left flank." And there is no indication he "broke" someone's nose. No blood, no hand trauma.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

So, think about a close squirmy fight on the ground and these findings. It adds up to Zimm on the bottom that pulled the gun. Trevon sat up and said "OK, you got me." And then Zim got his gun up, aimed to center of heart and fired from a foot or less in vengeance. Yes, it can turn that fast to murder.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Say, did they every present the autopsy report? Or did they just enter it, with no witness questioned.

I just read it. A few things of interest. Look at the is entrance wound and ask yourself. Zim is getting "pounded," smashed" "mouth held" "squirming to get off the concrete, squirming the contact is so close, in fear of immediate harm. Now, we know Z is a lefty, writes with his left hand. It is on the DNA swab video. Yet, he holsters on his right and he did the re-inact with a right had draw.....OK?

Just look at this wound. Looks carefully placed over the heart to me.

View attachment 2724748

And it was not point blank.

Page 3, 1st para. "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range. Further examination demonstrates the wound track passes directly front to back...."

Trevon was not even that well. "There is a cardiac monitor pad on the left flank." And there is no indication he "broke" someone's nose. No blood, no hand trauma.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

So, think about a close squirmy fight on the ground and these findings. It adds up to Zimm on the bottom that pulled the gun. Trevon sat up and said "OK, you got me." And then Zim got his gun up, aime to center of hear and fired from a foot or more in vengeance. Yes, it can turn that fast to murder.
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You're a dreamer, and a ballistics expert, apparently. You ought to be testifying, the prosecution needs another hack.

"And there is no indication he "broke" someone's nose." Except for the broken nose, LOL.

On your drawing do you see the "soot" and "stipling"? Those are caused by the blast from the gun. "Intermediate range" is defined as 1 inch to 18 inches away. No hole in TM's hoodie indicates Trayvon was bent over Zim when the shot was fired ala "ground and pound".

You are welcome to your own delusional fantasies, but not your own facts.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Oh for fucks sake...SYG is just a quality of self defense in FL. SYG is only about if you have to brandish, warn, run, wound, etc? it is a self defense Doctrine.

Is it allowed in NY or MA? No.

But, CA, TX, FL and many other States don't required that you run. And, every self defense case in FL is under the qualities of "right to carry" "protection of self and others" and "castle doctrine."

SYG is simply "castle doctrine" applied to a person outside of the home. You don't have to try to get away.
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SYG is separate law in Florida. Zimmerman's defense has not invoked an SYG defense, although they might, I suppose.

At this point it is up to the prosecutor to prove that Z intentionally murdered TM, that Z meant to murder TM before TM ever assaulted Z. Has the prosecutor accomplished that? Who knows what the jury will decide, but from what I have seen the prosecution looks like a joke.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
No. SYG is simply a quality of FL self defense.

In 2005, Florida became the first state to explicitly expand a person's right to use deadly force for self-defense. Deadly force is justified if a person is gravely threatened, in the home or "any other place where he or she has a right to be."

It extends the castle doctrine. It is not yet, the Defense case. "They say....they say..." So What?

It is an outside the home, accosted fight that turned into a killing. All SYG, all. It is Trevon that stood his ground, that is why the defense won't touch it.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Doer said:
Say, did they ever present the autopsy report? Or did they just enter it, with no witness questioned?

I just read it. A few things of interest. Look at the is entrance wound and ask yourself. Zim is getting "pounded," smashed" "mouth held" "squirming to get off the concrete, squirming the contact is so close, in fear of immediate harm. Now, we know Z is a lefty, writes with his left hand. It is on the DNA swab video. Yet, he holsters on his right and he did the re-inact with a right had draw.....OK?

Just look at this wound. Looks carefully placed over the heart to me.

View attachment 2724748

And it was not point blank. And it was straight through. It is serious contortion to do this in the situation described.

Lay on you back. Perp is on top. You feel him going for your gun...Z even said that key phrase.".free gun, no ones gun"...big lie. And so if you are that scared and that close you fire aft about a 45 x 45 degree angle. This was a center of heart, straight in.

The wound for a righty should be lower much farther right, outside and below the nipple at least, and angled thru the chest. How does anyone get the gun, centered like that, and say he was still being pounded, smashed, etc?

Fear will get that shot out as soon as I clear leather. It can't wait that couple of miliseconds to get the gun up, centered, aimed, etc. I might have even shot myself in the process of fear.

And Zim would have actually put the gun up for grabs in the middle of the squirmy area. It didn't happen like that, I don't think.

Page 3, 1st para. "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range. Further examination demonstrates the wound track passes directly front to back...."

Trevon was not even that well. "There is a cardiac monitor pad on the left flank." And there is no indication he "broke" someone's nose. No blood, no hand trauma.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

So, think about a close squirmy fight on the ground and these findings. It adds up to Zimm on the bottom that pulled the gun. Trevon sat up and said "OK, you got me." And then Zim got his gun up, aimed to center of heart and fired from a foot or less in vengeance. Yes, it can turn that fast to murder.
Click to expand...
They really didn't need to write Black Slut by his hairline. cn
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
What do you mean, not invoked? You don't know the defense case, except the opening statement.

SYG would only apply if Trevon was alive. He stood his ground but was killed for it. But, for the defense, they don't have to invoke it. They don't have to say anything at all. It they decide to go with it, they just inform the Judge at sidebar.

Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in the use of non-deadly force in self-defense where the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force. There is no duty to retreat.

There are two primary statutes in Florida outlining when the use of deadly force is justified so as to avoid criminal liability. Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes (Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” Law), a person is justified in using deadly force (and does not have a duty to retreat) if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony or to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

Under Section 782.02, Florida Statutes, the use of deadly force is further justified when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which the person is located.

It extends the castle doctrine, it is the only thing of relevance. It is nothing special, it is only nicknamed by the press as "stand your ground" because they think like truds.
 
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