crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
for a majority of these posts, this is probably true. but some strains seem to be more repeated, im gonna stay away from barneys now
Worst strain you have even grown ?
- Thread starter fssalaska
- Start date
cleverpiggy
Well-Known Member
You may be right but I warn you this was some terrible smoke. It was like smoking a cigar and inhaling every hit.
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
not always my friend.. i have had one or two shit grows, but i know that it was something that i did, and would never write off the genetics i had a shit grow with cuz i'm a big boy and can admit my faults..
but when you read of the same strains / breeders where people have shit grows with, it tends to tell me that it's more than shitty growers..
Tony Sativa
Member
I've tried 6 strains from Greenhouse seeds and 5 were awful smoke but I was given a freebie of Hawaiian snow that was pretty good. that being said I would never waste my time or cash with that company again[h=5][/h]
robert 14617
Well-Known Member
super silver haze , too sensitive for my shitty water here to high salt content
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
who's ssh was that robert?? just asking 'cuz i know a few different breeders all have their version of ssh..
robert 14617
Well-Known Member
i think it was nirvana , i choose it after seeing many threads on perfect grows in diff parts of the country , the prob was on my side not the strain
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
no way, it is never the growers fault robert, wtf man, lol... mighty man of you to admit to it..
i had a shitty grow of white russian, sannies chemdawg x bb, and sleestack from dna, and idk what i did wrong, but every plant fucking sucked balls, but i know it wasn't the genetics, but more so something i did or didn't do..
robert 14617
Well-Known Member
we just look for the strains that fit our environment, i can't hardly kill kc brains mind bender ,and once orange bud gets out of seedling stage and goes into veg its a monster , i have my favorites or i should say i have some that tolerate me , just started some cindy-99xchem dawg they did well for me
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Did you know that fully half of American adults are of below average intelligence?
The reason not everything can be "excellent" is that by definition, excellence is difficult to achieve.
The reason you can't eliminate all bad phenotypes is because of the way genetics works. The "best" strains are usually hybrids, created by random assortment of genes. Not only can you not stop this random assortment, but you NEED it to create the variability to create new strains and pick the best phenotypes from.
Put more simply, the "best" genetics are typically hybrids, and these CANNOT be stabilized. If you want a crack at "the best" you need to pick from a pool that contains "the worst".
dubalchemist
Well-Known Member
i wouldnt say a hybrid CANNOT be stabilized, just a lot of companies aren't spending the years it takes to to completely stabilize it.
Illegal Smile
Well-Known Member
The conclusion here is that "someone" thinks every strain is the worst. Some of the best I have ever grown are mentioned here as worst. Think it could be a function of the grower more than the strain? I do.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Well, I *would* say it (and did, above!).
Yes, its true that you can take any hybrid, then cross, select, and repeat enough times until you get something stable, effectively a new inbred line (or "true breeding strain"). That typically takes 5-6 generations of crosses.
The problem is that this new true breeding strain may NOT in fact be the best phenotype possible from the cross of your two (or more) remote original parents. The best phenotypes are often heterozygous for various genes. In classical breeding this phenomenon is sometimes called "hybrid vigor".
Making the genetics simple, every plant contains two copies of each of its genes, one from each parent. In "true breeding" strains, both copies are identical; that's why with inbred lines, no matter how many times you cross the plant to itself or siblings, you get similar offspring. If all crosses plants contain only the same exact copy of each gene, no amount of crossing them is going to create a new combination or phenotype.
In contrast, with F1 or other early generation hybrids, the plants will carry DIFFERENT copies of many genes, one from each of two distinct parents. Often times, carrying two DIFFERENT copies is exactly what makes a particular phenotype "special" (again "hybrid vigor"). Unfortunately, if a plant contains two different copies of a gene, and you cross it to a similar plant, the genes will randomly assort, yielding three different phenotypes.
So in any given pack of seeds, if you want a chance at getting that superior mixed hybrid genotype, you need to take a 50-50 chance of getting a mix that isn't quite as good.
Even more simply, sometimes the best plants aren't "purebreds", they're unique "mutt" grandchildren, and technically not even true "strains".
You can stabilize *some* of their traits, where having two copies of the same gene might not matter, but if you try to completely stabilize them into an inbred line you'll lose exactly what's special about them (typically potency, fast growth, and ready clonability).
This, by the way, explains why some of the better/best "strains" are "clone only"; they can't really be stabilized.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
That's certainly possible, and likely a contributing factor.
I would still add the following, though:
-There is absolutely no standardization or enforcement in the world of cannabis seed breeding. So different breeders versions of the same "strain" can, in fact, have entirely different genetics. But a pack of so called "white widow" and not only are the phenotypes from different breeders going to be vastly different, the fundamental genetics of the plants in question will probably vary quite a bit too!
-Even more maddening, packs of the SAME seeds, from the SAME breeder released at different times can have different genetics! That's because breeders do change their lines, and in some cases, the lines evolve over time (not always for the better). Also, some breeders are less than perfectly meticulous about their seed operations, and the seeds in the pack may not actually be the ones promised on the label!
-Unless you're dealing with a true inbred line (and most of the more interesting/popular strains are NOT inbred), even within one pack of seeds you may end up with a fairly wide variety of phenotypes (see my last post above as to why this is true).
A good breeder "should" at least partially stabilize any commercial offering they put out so that you stand a reasonable change of getting one or more plants with that "killer" phenotype, but a. they don't all do it, and b. no matter how well they do, "dumb luck" plays a role. With 10 seeds in a pack, you may have a situation where 2 don't germinate or make it past seedling stage, and of the remaining 8, 5 are male. Now you're down to only three females from your pack. Again, without getting into probabilities and complicated genetics here, if you're only picking from three offspring, you well may draw the "short straw" and end up with three inferior phenotypes.
So all these things may explain, in some part, why excellent grower "A" gets great results with a particular strain, even though excellent grower "B" does not.
TMG Genetics
New Member
That's called leveraging ones position. While his genetics may or may not be weak, you can't fault the guy for giving the masses what they want. Sub gets mad respect from me for that. In the end people will speak with their wallets, so far people are still speaking to him.i mean, do i really need a tga lighter leash?? and does he really need the $.99 he just made selling it to me?? ....
Illegal Smile
Well-Known Member
All very true. I think it comes down to economics - there simply isn't a return on investment for the rigorous process you describe. The root of the problem is lack of a discriminating customer base. The number of people growing is exploding so fast that not that many care about wild variances, just so it grows and gets them high. I almost exclusively grow Northern Lights from Nirvana. Old strain as stable as any, but even there I get a huge plant now and then.
DankShasta
Active Member
I'll probably incur the wrath of somebody with this, but I've had three shitty experiences with G-13 labs, Well not totally shitty, but after you've had some good strains it seems you realize their stuff is "just average", "nothing special" type shit. You want a guaranteed home run? Greenhouse's SLH, it might not be every smokers favorite, but it's always a crowd-pleaser, and truly well bred dope.
Milovan
Well-Known Member
Go with clones and you will know exactly what you are getting.
My Reserva Privada OG#18s took full strength neuts and cal mag every watering just absolutely fine. As they say good genes is just
part of the equation. It all depends on the grower and how it is grown.
This goes for growing all strains no doubt. A certain strain that doesnt work for one person may
work for another. Every one knows this.
Milovan
Well-Known Member
"There is also some mentioning of a private Northern Lights cutting that is said to be the real thing. It is known as P91, which stand for Poway Class of '91. This version of the plant, which originates from Poway San Diego, is supposedly an inbred or cubed version of Northern Lights #5 but this was impossible to confirm. It is considered to be one of the few, true and pure Northern Lights plants left in the world.The strains containing Northern Lights are simply too many to mention. Northern Lights has over the years become a very important line in modern cannabis genetics. Today, most seed companies offer their version of Northern Lights. Some of the plants are more closely related to the original plants than others, and descriptions by breeders are often lacking in detail. One thing is for certain and that is that there is more than one version of Northern Lights in circulation, ranging from indica to sativa in expression."
I could obtain P91 clones from a very well known respected and honest dealer in clones in
the SFV. Cloneville.org has them. I read the original true P91 strain is no more (after the big raid on the breeders in Poway) so the
one's cloneville have are probably a knock off and not completely true to the genetics. The cops got ALL the P91 from
what I understand.
I have to ask the owner about his P91 clones.
I could obtain P91 clones from a very well known respected and honest dealer in clones in
the SFV. Cloneville.org has them. I read the original true P91 strain is no more (after the big raid on the breeders in Poway) so the
one's cloneville have are probably a knock off and not completely true to the genetics. The cops got ALL the P91 from
what I understand.
I have to ask the owner about his P91 clones.