War

cannabineer said:

someone needs a scapegoat

Russia says hypersonic missile scientists face 'very serious' treason accusations

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face "very serious accusations", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia's scientific community.

www.reuters.com

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Sure, what makes more sense than exacerbating your shitty conditions by persecuting the only people in the entire country who even have a fucking clue what they're talking about?
I have no doubt they told their superiors exactly what they had, and what it could do, and their superiors inflated it to their superiors, who inflated it to their superiors, who...By the time it got to putin, it was not only invincible, it would regrow hair and make your dick bigger, too.

cannabineer said:

someone needs a scapegoat

Russia says hypersonic missile scientists face 'very serious' treason accusations

Three Russian academics who have worked on hypersonic missile technology face "very serious accusations", the Kremlin said on Wednesday, in a treason investigation that has spread alarm through Russia's scientific community.

www.reuters.com

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You have failed me for the last time.

don't you wish you could see Pooty's face when he hears that 100% of his best missiles are bunk......

Roger A. Shrubber said:

View attachment 5291605

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It's something like that. One thing missing is the buzzer that gives it a cool sound when they launch one.

Fogdog said:

It's something like that. One thing missing is the buzzer that gives it a cool sound when they launch one.

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In the original show, didn’t they use the sound of a sub’s torpedo tube being fired?

BudmanTX said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658393318378577920

don't you wish you could see Pooty's face when he hears that 100% of his best missiles are bunk......

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Their entire long range anti-ballistic missile defense radar is trash apparently, the high-quality electronic components it was supposed to be built with were substituted with cheap components and the money went to yachts and western bank accounts.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Their entire long range anti-ballistic missile defense radar is trash apparently, the high-quality electronic components it was supposed to be built with were substituted with cheap components and the money went to yachts and western bank accounts.

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Do we know this, or is it an educated guess?

A lot of Putin's fan base are old ladies who watch state TV.

cannabineer said:

Do we know this, or is it an educated guess?

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I posted an article about it awhile back in this thread, but I have not seen much mentioned about it in the press. It does seem likely however, given the state of the Russian military and the nature of the kleptocracy. Nothing one would bet on mind you, but you can buy electronic components for either pennies or for many dollars that essentially do the same job, except for quality and reliability issues. Western defense contractors use expensive high-quality components in their equipment and the Russians tend to use dishwasher levels parts in theirs. Getting anything from the west now will require clandestine methods and they have no electronics industry or supporting infrastructure.

These are the big radars up north that detect incoming ballistic missiles that the report mentioned, apparently a lot of money was siphoned off during their upgrades.

cannabineer said:

Do we know this, or is it an educated guess?

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i think he's talking about the Russian one.......

cannabineer said:

In the original show, didn’t they use the sound of a sub’s torpedo tube being fired?

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the first 20 seconds says it all
no idea what that noise actually is, but i highly doubt it's from a sub.

DIY-HP-LED said:

I posted an article about it awhile back in this thread, but I have not seen much mentioned about it in the press. It does seem likely however, given the state of the Russian military and the nature of the kleptocracy. Nothing one would bet on mind you, but you can buy electronic components for either pennies or for many dollars that essentially do the same job, except for quality and reliability issues. Western defense contractors use expensive high-quality components in their equipment and the Russians tend to use dishwasher levels parts in theirs. Getting anything from the west now will require clandestine methods and they have no electronics industry or supporting infrastructure.

These are the big radars up north that detect incoming ballistic missiles that the report mentioned, apparently a lot of money was siphoned off during their upgrades.

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i was looking for conformation of that, as i seem to remember reading something to that effect, as well. I didn't find the article i was thinking about, but this is related, and interesting.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2022-08-31/how-russian-corruption-is-foiling-putins-army-in-ukraine

cannabineer said:

In the original show, didn’t they use the sound of a sub’s torpedo tube being fired?

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I can't say because unlike photon torpedos, I've never heard a sub's torpedo tube being fired. The link begins with a standard photon torpedo firing sound from the Kirk-era Federation Enterprise. I can't speak for the other ones. Some of them seem to be Klingon propaganda that makes Federation photon torpedos seem wimpy.


Something I never understood. Why is nobody seated and belted in. Also Romulans knew well enough to wear helmets.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

the first 20 seconds says it all
no idea what that noise actually is, but i highly doubt it's from a sub.

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Not counting spinoffs.

When the button is pushed, I think that is torpedo pneumatics. The sounds outside the ship are more or less processed sounds of steel cables under tension being struck.

(edit) could not find the sound on Youtube, but I seem to remember it from WW2 documentaries.

Medvedev really needs to quit drinking and typing......sheesh

Fogdog said:

I pretty much agree with the idea that this war is not about defending Europe from Russian territorial aggression. Not sure exactly what Europe's reasons are for helping Ukraine. From the US's perspective, Russia, with its nukes and Putin's frequent reference to using them, is an existential threat. Ukraine has its own reasons for fighting against Russian territorial expansion so the US isn't "using" Ukraine but helping Ukraine for its own reasons. The US's aid to Ukraine degrades Russia's economy and military. It's possible that this will lead to an end of Putin, though his successor may not be any better wrt policies toward the US. As a bonus, after sanctions that makes Russia's prosecution of war against Ukraine made bank transfers out of Russia difficult, Putin's campaign to erode democracy and elevate right wing authoritarian government seems to be losing ground.

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I like to think the main reason for support for the support right now is the right and obvious one. If Russia had successfully executed a blitzkrieg I’m not so sure Ukraine would get the same support to take it back.

Bonus reasons, however, vary throughout Europe but the main concern for EU, foremost an economic union, is always above all economic stability, short term and long term. Everything is treated as if it’s an economic problem. Climate, wars, pandemics (how can we get out of this with minimal economic damage). Without a stable economy, history will repeat itself, nationally and internationally. Economic power is to EU what nukes are to Russia. Mutual assured destruction of the economy. It’s not as much about US/NATO/EU vs Russia military threat here as it is about US vs EU vs China’s economy.

Another factor that plays a role is Turkey. EU market cannot (nor does it want to) include both Ukraine and Turkey. The decisions it should be Ukraine and it should not be Turkey have already been made. Good thing for them Erdogan will win, EU would have been obligated to restart membership talks with the other guy while EU membership for Ukraine is 10-20 years away. One of the biggest opponents of Turkey joining was Merkel / is Germany. Their support has little to do with atoning for ww2, it’s all about protecting economic power.

The perceived existential threat was always, since the early 80s anyway, more specifically a nuclear war between superpowers US and Russia than specifically Russian nukes. A not uncommon idea here was that the US made Russia seem stronger and more dangerous than they were. What good is being a superpower and spending so much on military if you have no adversary to measure up to. Rocky IV, where a swedish giant represents Russia and an Italian dwarf the USA…

Obviously there’s a change in mentality, already started before this war (though Germany…), the trolling, hybrid and digital warfware, and with Putin going mad. But regardless of the outcome of this war, the nuclear threat will likely remain, or at least still perceived to be real. The support for Ukraine is despite increasing the risk, not in hopes they’ll be less of a threat when it comes to nukes. Sure we now doubt Russia’s nuclear capabilities too but even if a fraction works we’re fk-ed. How fast EU will be to reestablish relations with Russia (after Putin) will underline the above. The believe in the power of economic relations is near religious, it will bring democracy to Russia like it did in China (I’m being sarcastic of course).

BudmanTX said:

Medvedev really needs to quit drinking and typing......sheesh

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658747516320464898

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Well at least he puts the imperialist intentions of the Russian ruling elite out in the open and it explains why eastern Europe, Poland and the Baltic states going all in for Ukraine, this is not news to them. That's the trouble with autocracies, they have no friends, if they fuck over their own people, then they will fuck over you. China is in the same boat, the more aggressive and assertive thy are, the more their neighbors fear and loath them. One cannot have legal agreements with scofflaws and that is what those who do not live by the rule of law at home are. They have to steal power from the people, it is not given with their consent through free and fair elections, and therein lies the root of the problem. Good faith is required for liberal democracies to function and for honest international relationships that are based on more than mutual benefit, but on shared values too. It used to be said that countries have interests, not friendships, but that was before modern communications linked the world and the growing importance of public opinion in matters of war and peace.

Two articles, one about the Kinzhal missile and the other about the capabilities of Ukraine's Patriot systems.


the Kinzhal ... missile achieves hypersonic velocities through a quasi-ballistic flight path that never departs the atmosphere, and Russia claims that it can maneuver throughout its trajectory to avoid being intercepted. The Iskander-M ballistic missile and Kh-47M2 Kinzhal are indeed capable ballistic weapons, but they’re a far cry from the cutting-edge technology usually referenced in conversations about hypersonic missiles. The premise behind the Kinzhal missile is a pretty dated one — so much so that it shares a great deal in common with a 2006 NASA effort to leverage the Navy’s stockpile of retired AIM-54 Phoenix missiles for hypersonic flight testing.

Ouch. They put the Kinzhal on par with a missile design that was retired by the US in 2006. If true, then Putin was blowing hot air when he claimed Russia was years ahead of everybody else in hypersonic missile tech and "will have defenses in place" before we can catch up to them. Also, Russia reverse-engineered this missile AND doesn't know how to make all the components. Russia uses components that were either stolen or corruptly obtained and smuggled the tech into Russia in order to build Kinzal missiles and other military hardware. The cannot manufacture these components. They found supply chain work arounds when the 2014 sanctions were employed to ban sales of these components to Russia. Sanctions put in place in 2014 probably ended that supply chain.

the good news is, even if Russia found a way to get around sanctions and export regulations after their 2014 annexation of Crimea, it seems far less likely that they’ll manage to continue to source components from the United States and elsewhere following the far more severe sanctions levied over the past nine months.

So, while it seems likely that Russia’s faux-hypersonic Kinzhal missile is powered by American tech… it seems unlikely that Russia will be able to continue to source those components for much longer.

Russia just burned up several Kinzhal missiles trying to take out Ukraine's Patriot systems. Reports say they might have damaged one but not the most important component and replacement components are available.

The Patriot System Isn't Magic, Losses In Ukraine Can Be Expected

The Patriot has done a phenomenal job during its short service in Ukraine, but it was always going to be Russia's top target.

www.thedrive.com

There simply was no doubt that these batteries would become absolute missile magnets, not just for their capabilities and overt value, but also for what they symbolize — increasing support from the U.S. and its allies for Ukraine via the donation of advanced weapons. This is all something of a feature, not just a bug.

Every weapon fired at the Patriot battery is one less weapon Russia can use to hit other targets. And while the Patriot batteries are of very high value, they are also the best-defended locations in the country, so Russia would be spending a lot of its best standoff weapons, an arsenal that is dwindling in size and very hard to replace, just to get a shot at a hit. While Patriot interceptors vary in capability, can be very expensive, and can be depleted fairly quickly, there are thousands in NATO's collective inventory.

The Patriot batteries are to Ukraine as the chin is to a fighter. Sometimes a great fighter dares the opponent by sticking his chin out daring their him to take a poke at it, ready to do damage when he does. Every successful defense of the Patriot system wears down Russia's ability to prosecute this war. There are reports of damage to a Patriot system during the most recent raid:

It’s entirely possible that one of the Patriot systems was damaged in the aerial onslaught due to an enemy weapon. It’s also worth remembering that just like any missile system, Patriot interceptors fail, and sometimes they do so right after launch in spectacular fashion. These failures can even damage parts of the battery itself, although that is rare. And sometimes such a failure can look like the battery was hit by the enemy. So claims of a Patriot site being struck due to a flash seen in a video, or some other single piece of vague evidence, are not worth a hard conclusion. On a very active and dynamic battlefield, things explode and sometimes it’s not caused by enemy munitions and sometimes it is.

As described in the article, Patriot missile systems contain several components that are spread out, so one successful strike may cripple or take down the system without destroying it. Unlike Russia's most capable missiles, Patriots missile systems and their components are replaceable.

Sativied said:

I like to think the main reason for support for the support right now is the right and obvious one. If Russia had successfully executed a blitzkrieg I’m not so sure Ukraine would get the same support to take it back.

Bonus reasons, however, vary throughout Europe but the main concern for EU, foremost an economic union, is always above all economic stability, short term and long term. Everything is treated as if it’s an economic problem. Climate, wars, pandemics (how can we get out of this with minimal economic damage). Without a stable economy, history will repeat itself, nationally and internationally. Economic power is to EU what nukes are to Russia. Mutual assured destruction of the economy. It’s not as much about US/NATO/EU vs Russia military threat here as it is about US vs EU vs China’s economy.

Another factor that plays a role is Turkey. EU market cannot (nor does it want to) include both Ukraine and Turkey. The decisions it should be Ukraine and it should not be Turkey have already been made. Good thing for them Erdogan will win, EU would have been obligated to restart membership talks with the other guy while EU membership for Ukraine is 10-20 years away. One of the biggest opponents of Turkey joining was Merkel / is Germany. Their support has little to do with atoning for ww2, it’s all about protecting economic power.

The perceived existential threat was always, since the early 80s anyway, more specifically a nuclear war between superpowers US and Russia than specifically Russian nukes. A not uncommon idea here was that the US made Russia seem stronger and more dangerous than they were. What good is being a superpower and spending so much on military if you have no adversary to measure up to. Rocky IV, where a swedish giant represents Russia and an Italian dwarf the USA…

Obviously there’s a change in mentality, already started before this war (though Germany…), the trolling, hybrid and digital warfware, and with Putin going mad. But regardless of the outcome of this war, the nuclear threat will likely remain, or at least still perceived to be real. The support for Ukraine is despite increasing the risk, not in hopes they’ll be less of a threat when it comes to nukes. Sure we now doubt Russia’s nuclear capabilities too but even if a fraction works we’re fk-ed. How fast EU will be to reestablish relations with Russia (after Putin) will underline the above. The believe in the power of economic relations is near religious, it will bring democracy to Russia like it did in China (I’m being sarcastic of course).

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I’m curious what the perceived economic downside is to having Turkey join EU. When I searched, the principal objections centered on “human rights violations and a deficiency in the rule of law” and the Cyprus matter, none of which are primarily economic.