War

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Patriot is modular. The modules have been aggressively upgraded. This is definitely not the Scud-missing weapons system of 33 years ago.
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Not that I keep track of military tech developments. Most is just pie in the sky wet dream sci fi stuff that never goes anywhere. But still, it seems that the capability of Patriot systems to shoot down hypersonic missiles was kept on the down low until Ukraine announced it had shot one down. Today, they two more.

I'm always the last to know.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
Not that I keep track of military tech developments. Most is just pie in the sky wet dream sci fi stuff that never goes anywhere. But still, it seems that the capability of Patriot systems to shoot down hypersonic missiles was kept on the down low until Ukraine announced it had shot one down. Today, they two more.

I'm always the last to know.
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Same here and I’m good with it. The last day’s performance increased my estimate of Ukraine’s antiair readiness.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Patriot is modular. The modules have been aggressively upgraded. This is definitely not the Scud-missing weapons system of 33 years ago.
Click to expand...
Fun fact, back in the day the Canadian Black Brant was used as target practice for the Patriot system when they were developing it.

On the current capabilities, normal missiles can fly at 2-4 times the speed of sound, the Russians say 10X, not sure if they are saying the speed in the upper atmosphere or where us humans normally operate (a lot more drag). As long as there is enough range to pick up the missile (cut normal distances in half) then it is just up to the computers to calculate where the missile will be, how long the Patriot missile takes to get there, and kaboom!. The big thing with the Russian missile is that it is not a ballistic missile and can alter its path. But can it really? Any large correction would see it tumbling through the sky. Any small deviation and the Patriot can alter its course also. Nothing like a real world test to put the question to rest.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering now if we had a better idea of their military capabilities than our military has let on, that we knew that most of their assets were useless, that their training was a joke?
i rather believe that, than that we had no idea they were selling everything worth ten rubles, and letting the rest rot where it sat, that we had no idea that their training was kind of a joke.
The russians are being beaten by a country with a quarter of their population, that was considered to have no real chance in the first few days of the war...The contributions of their friends and allies have helped enormously, but they held them off for at least a month with little to no help, and a few more after that with minimal assistance. Surely our intelligence community knew this would happen?.... :shock:
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
sweetisland2009 said:
www.thedailybeast.com

Utter Humiliation for Putin’s ‘Unstoppable’ Superweapon

Six infamous Dagger missiles were shot down by U.S. Patriot defenses in one incredible night that changes the calculus of Putin’s threat to Ukraine.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

This is excellent news and should send a shiver down Putan’s and Xi’s spine. A system deployed since the 1980s - making short work of 6 hypersonic missiles. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re lying about even “damaging” one of the two systems.

Now imagine if our undisclosed defense/counteroffensive measures actually had to be used. Maybe I’m a little biased but our Navy alone could completely wipe out both Russia and China if needed.

I would argue this is a turning point in the war especially in terms of countries who align themselves against us catching a glimpse of a third party’s capabilities with our old technology
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I'm struggling to not be snarky with this post.

We just exited Afghanistan in defeat after 20 years of useless war. I want that to be the last war of occupation the US ever has. US Navy defeat China? What does that mean and at what cost?

Yes, what we saw this week. The way the Ukraine military used our Patriot Missile defense system to protect thousands of lives was amazing, awesome and I'm not just amazed but thrilled. The US finally did some good this week.

It came to my mind too that Xi should be mindful of that when he contemplates invading Taiwan. If that's what you are talking about, I hope that demonstration keeps China at the diplomatic table. I don't think anybody wins if China invades Taiwan.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
printer said:
Fun fact, back in the day the Canadian Black Brant was used as target practice for the Patriot system when they were developing it.

On the current capabilities, normal missiles can fly at 2-4 times the speed of sound, the Russians say 10X, not sure if they are saying the speed in the upper atmosphere or where us humans normally operate (a lot more drag). As long as there is enough range to pick up the missile (cut normal distances in half) then it is just up to the computers to calculate where the missile will be, how long the Patriot missile takes to get there, and kaboom!. The big thing with the Russian missile is that it is not a ballistic missile and can alter its path. But can it really? Any large correction would see it tumbling through the sky. Any small deviation and the Patriot can alter its course also. Nothing like a real world test to put the question to rest.
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Which is why calling Kindjal “hypersonic” is sales talk. Hypersonics maneuver. The Kindjal goes fast in a straight line.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Which is why calling Kindjal “hypersonic” is sales talk. Hypersonics maneuver. The Kindjal goes fast in a straight line.
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Hypersonic* can just mean faster than sound. But then again, there is a gap in my knowledge of warfare. The gap bridges the time between the end of WW2 and the Federation's Wars against the Klingons. The Enterprise makes history in both ends.

* edit, correction: Per Wikipedia: A hypersonic weapon is a weapon capable of travelling at hypersonic speed, defined as between 5 and 25 times the speed of sound or about 1 to 5 miles per second (1.6 to 8.0 km/s).[1]

Below such speeds, weapons would be characterized as subsonic or supersonic, while above such speeds, the molecules of the atmosphere disassociate into a plasma which makes control and communication difficult. Directed-energy weapons such as lasers may operate at higher speeds but are considered a different class of weaponry.
 
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cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
Hypersonic can just mean faster than sound. But then again, there is a gap in my knowledge of warfare. The gap bridges the time between the end of WW2 and the Federation's Wars against the Klingons. The Enterprise makes history in both ends.
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While hypersonic means anything above mach 5, my readings on how the term is currently applied to airframes imply maneuver. Without the capacity to maneuver, it ends up afaik in the bucket labeled ballistic, which makes for simpler intercept solutions.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
While hypersonic means anything above mach 5, my readings on how the term is currently applied to airframes imply maneuver. Without the capacity to maneuver, it ends up afaik in the bucket labeled ballistic, which makes for simpler intercept solutions.
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See the edit to my earlier post. I only understand bombs and photon torpedoes.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. This proves that being rich and being smart are two different things, being rich is more about greed than smart. Many rich people believe bullshit and Elon proves it almost daily, it appears his old man is also Russia's useful idiot and spreads their bullshit.

Secret US biolabs in Ukraine is about the most absurd bullshit imaginable and classic Russian disinformation that only a sucker and ignorant fool could believe. There are plenty of American universities and scientists eager for government research grants and contracts, if the US government wanted to do such research in the first place.

This is being pushed by Russian bots that have overrun twitter because of no moderation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658673636738469890
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
edition.cnn.com

UK, Netherlands are working to procure F-16 fighters for Ukraine, Downing Street says | CNN

Britain and the Netherlands are working on an “international coalition” to help Ukraine procure F-16 fighter jets that Kyiv says are vital to its defense as Russia ramps up its aerial strikes, a spokesperson for UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Tuesday.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com

From local news, that coalition includes Belgium and Denmark as well, one of the main obstacles right now is Biden’s approval but it’s considered to be a matter of time, they will likely get F16s.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Putin announced a new scheme for Russia to enter world markets
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a new scheme for integrating Russia into the world economy. Iran's leader Ebrahim Raisi became his ally in this process, experts comment on the meaning of the May 17 signing of an agreement on the joint construction of a railway in the north of the Asian country. According to political analysts, this project will not only allow the redirection of Russian exports and imports against the backdrop of sanctions, but is also a signal to the West about an even closer rapprochement between Russia and Iran.

Putin and Raisi participated in the ceremony of signing the agreement between the governments of Russia and Iran via video link. The parties agreed on joint financing of the design and construction of a railway on the Rasht-Astara section in northern Iran. “The agreement launches the implementation of a truly large-scale project to create an international North-South transport corridor. This is a through transport artery that is designed to connect Russian ports in the Baltic and the northern seas with Iranian ports on the coast of the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean,” President Putin stressed.
ura-news.translate.goog

Путин объявил о новой схеме выхода России на мировые рынки

Союзником в этом процессе будет Иран
ura-news.translate.goog ura-news.translate.goog

Russia and Iran sign rail deal for corridor intended to rival Suez Canal
Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Iranian counterpart Ebrahim Raisi on Wednesday oversaw, via video-link, the signing of a deal to finance and build an Iranian railway line as part of an embryonic international North–South Transport Corridor.

The Rasht-Astara railway is seen as an important link in the corridor, intended to connect India, Iran, Russia, Azerbaijan and other countries via railways and sea - a route that Russia says can rival the Suez Canal as a major global trade route.

"The unique North-South transport artery, of which the Rasht-Astara railway will become a part, will help to significantly diversify global traffic flows," Putin said.

He also said the 162 km (100 mile) railway along the Caspian Sea coast would help to connect Russian ports on the Baltic Sea with Iranian ports in the Indian Ocean and the Gulf.

"Without a doubt, this agreement is an important and strategic step in the direction of cooperation between Tehran and Moscow," Raisi said.

Russia and Iran have been pushed to strengthen their political and economic ties by Western economic sanctions on each, which both say are unjustified.

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution that swept U.S.-backed Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi from power, Iran has been ostracised by the West and its economy crippled by a myriad of sanctions. It holds around a quarter of the Middle East's oil reserves.

The West also imposed other set of restrictions over Iran's nuclear program, while Russia was sanctioned due to its actions in Ukraine.
www.reuters.com

Russia and Iran sign rail deal for corridor intended to rival Suez Canal

Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Iranian counterpart Ebrahim Raisi on Wednesday oversaw, via video-link, the signing of a deal to finance and build an Iranian railway line as part of an embryonic international North–South Transport Corridor.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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