UV Suppliment Lighting

Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
I'll be using. Have not yet though. I'm convinced that LED can be just as viable as fluoro (if not more) when it comes to UV. Here's some key WV's documented with respect to UV (loosely)...
View attachment 4312030
I'm working on adding 12w of UV diodes on dimmable channels to a 150w white light. 2:1 ratio of UVA:UVB. UVB its own channel. :bigjoint: (Check sig for progress)
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Thats more for usual gardening cuz UVA is used for coloring herbs and chance terpene profiles but not to trigger UVR8.
You want 285nm UVB and you want a 1:3 to 1:6 UVB to UVA ratio to not damage plant cells. The ratios are usually found under natural conditions and it seems plants are used to it and need both in a certain ratio to not getting damaged.

Under this aspect the Agromax pureUV bulbs(75% UVB/25% UVA) are completely useless without additional UVA and one would need a lot UVA to change a 3:1 ratio in 1:3 ratio with add ing UVA.

Unfortunately I have the dimmable ballast already so I will try it at first with 50% or less intensity before I give them away. I still have 4 new pureUV bulbs and it seems I've wasted my money on these ...
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
.
Randomblame said:
Thats more for usual gardening cuz UVA is used for coloring herbs and chance terpene profiles but not to trigger UVR8.
You want 285nm UVB and you want a 1:3 to 1:6 UVB to UVA ratio to not damage plant cells. The ratios are usually found under natural conditions and it seems plants are used to it and need both in a certain ratio to not getting damaged.

Under this aspect the Agromax pureUV bulbs(75% UVB/25% UVA) are completely useless without additional UVA and one would need a lot UVA to change a 3:1 ratio in 1:3 ratio with add ing UVA.

Unfortunately I have the dimmable ballast already so I will try it at first with 50% or less intensity before I give them away. I still have 4 new pureUV bulbs and it seems I've wasted my money on these ...
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Ya! We've discussed this! :) The UVR8 molecule is triggered from 280nm - 315nm with the most receptive WV being 285nm. With 285nm as a peak, you'll get a fair amount of 265nm which is too much UVC! So with a peak of 300ish its a more satisfactory result. With dimmers I can set the ratio to whatever I decide to test for that particular run. :bigjoint:

I was going with UV chips peaking at 280nm, but the legs are just too far into UVC than I'm comfortable working around or with...
Screenshot_2019-04-04-12-44-04~2.png

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVR8
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
A quick question, do yoù need, use eye protection, cover your skin when using these arcadia tubes?. For instance, If you have a lizard vivarium do you need to turn the tube off before going close to the tank
And slightly off topic, what about the CMH lamps, do they give off dangerous amounts of uv?
I've gotta be careful of uv, going to hospital to get biopsy on a few moles next week....
Already been 3 times over the years....:o
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Normal glas is filtering UVB completely so you can watch your dragons as long as you want without protection. But there is no glas to protect you when you visit your groom. Pretty sure there is almost no UVB in 4ft distance from the bulbs but with only 1foot 5 minutes are probably enough to cause visible sun burn.
Long sleeves and cheap sun glases with UV400 sticker are already enough to protect yourself. And no, you don't need that under CMH/MH bulbs cause they only have 1,4% UVA but no UVB. I would not work for hours with naked body under such lights but a few minutes with normal clothings are no problem as long as you don't look directly in a running bulb.
I've worked for years with MH and HPS and have never protected my skin or anything else and even now with the pureUV bulbs I have not started to glow in the dark. At least not till now...
 
DrGreenT420

DrGreenT420

Active Member
Randomblame said:
You could even DIY such a fixture. Simply order a cheap hammered stucco reflector cut a 6inch wide piece off and bend it like a wing reflector. Order a few T5 bulb sockets from e3ay(a 5 pack costs 1,50$), you need two for each bulb and at last order a T5HO ballast and some single core AWG20 wire. (Important: the wires can not be longer like 2m)
Usually the 24w ones can be used for 2ft/24w "and" 3ft/39w bulbs.
For my 1st build I've just used a 24x 6" alli sheet and bend it like this \_/.
Only make sure there is no fancy glas coating like on adjust-a-wing reflectors or other hoods.
The cheapest ones are the ones doing the best job with UV.
I don't think there is a big difference between the available fixtures when you measure the average intensity. The peak intensity says only how much you get in the center and with a 90° reflector you get higher readings like with a 120° reflector but the total amount UVB distributed is almost the same. I rather have better distribution and less hot spot...


I've found my new dimmable 2 bulb ballast for 18$ on am4zon(a Philips HFregulator 224-TLS 220-240) but I don't believe its available in the US. But with reptile bulbs there is no need for dimming. I've ordered it only cuz I wanne try to use the Agromax bulbs dimmed down before I finally sell them (at least the 4 unused ones). Maybe I can figure out a way to use them without yield loss and burnings and if not.. These bulbs are not available in the EU so when I offer them for 25 a piece on e3ay I should get at least a part of my investment back.

If you can get the 14% bulbs - get them!
If you can get only 10 or 12% bulbs you can also use the Hortilux powerveg+ bulbs they have almost the same spectrum.
I expecially like the Arcadias because they have a CRI90 or 95 spectrum, 7 or 8k. This means they also add some nice blue light to the spectrum. An if you look at the spectrum the spikes fits perfect to widen the blue range below and above 450nm.

I plan to use UV light only in the 1st half of the day and use some far-red with the 2nd half of the day. But before I can test it I have to figure out if there is a way to use these Agromax bad boys. I have my Arcadia's already waiting and can use them at least in my smaller 3sft area.
Believe me, you will be impressed when you see the difference. These light also brings a lot more colors to life and also the terpene content will increase which means it also smells stronger in your garden. So keep that in mind...
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Ill definitely have to keep that in mind. Now just leaning towards the Reptisun 24in fixture (the fixture for the 34" bulbs is actually 36" and would be a tight fit in my 3x3). I can pick that up for $40 -$50 which is about how much I figure Id spend building my own, and I like the look or their wider, really low profile fixture. Would that fixture not lend its self more to the 12% Arcadias running closer than the 14%s running farther away ? The way I built my COB array was to go above and beyond the tried and true 6 COBs to get a perfect spacing and better coverage by using 9 instead, so Im able to run my lights pretty close (10-12in, some times down to 8in) A lot of what you have explained has really clicked with me, but I seem to be missing why exactly the 14% would be better in my situation. Is it just the 2% more UVB ? Does the 14% offer a better spectum of light ? Or is it just a more natural ratio of UVA to UVB ? Better coverage from being up higher ? Just worried about getting the 14%s, running them higher, and having my COB array casting a shadow. Either Arcadia option I think Id be very happy with, the increase in blues is definitely something I was looking for as well so thats perfect. Im currently growing in a basement in a decriminalized city, in Michigan, so Im very ok with letting my nugs get as stinky as they desire.

I think Im planning on running my UV and 730s very similarly to you. I was thinking get my plants slowly worked up to around 8 - 10hrs UV during the middle of my 12hrs on. And letting my 730s run the last hr or so with the extra 5 minutes after lights off.
 
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eyderbuddy

eyderbuddy

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
When you can get them incl. a siutable T12 fixture there is nothing wrong with them. They are much stronger like reptile bulbs so 1-3h per day should be enough but they are for sure more expensive and each time you replace them you have to pay additional shipping costs and custom fees. And shipping such bulbs is expensive because of the huge packages.

For EU peeps I recommend to get the Arcadia reptile bulb called D3desert(12%) or D3dragon(14%). They are strong enough to get the same results, you can use them for up to 12h as soon as the plants are used to it and they do not damage the plants no matter how long they are running. Plants need only a week to get used to UVB which means the 1st week only 1-3h but then there is no limit.
The Solacure bulbs are so strong they can damage the plants and they need a certain minimum distance of 20-24".
Reptile bulbs can be used with less distance. 8-12" with the 12% bulbs and 12-16" with the 14% bulbs. To cover 2x 2c area evenly you need at least 12" distance and a metallic reflector.





Why do you believe UVB light destroys your gorilla tent? I've seen many peeps using UVB and till now no one mentioned such things. Has it white coated tent walls? In this case its possible that you see a purplish tint with the time but with mylar on the walls there is no such coloration.





I've 325w white, 10w far-red and I add 20w hyperred this month so 355w LED and I have two 2ft bulbs now which means ~48w UVA/B. Works for me and means a 7:1 ratio. But only 12% is UVB and 30% of the 48w are UVA. The rest is visible light and should be added to the amount of LED light. Too complicated for my taste and even then its probably more UVB like the natural 1-3% of the sun light. But god thanks thats not an issue with reptile bulbs. I've used them 12" above the tops for 12" and you get ~150μW/cm² in the center out of a 12% bulb. So 150x 12h= 1800μW/cm² x 0,036= a wooping dose of 64,8kJ/m² directly under the bulbs. Calculated with 40% to come near to average numbers thats still 26kJ/m².

And yes, I've done w/ and w/o tests and have seen several differences.
I've used a well known GreenPoison clone for this tests and have grown the strain for around a year before I've startet to use UVB light. So it was pretty easy to spot differences because I knew what she could do.
The first differences you'll see is the plants grow a little more compact and stay shorter. Maybe because of the extra blue but this is also an effect of UVB. When plants receive UVB the UVR8 molecules gets destroyed and the plants recognize, "OMG, there is UVB! I need to protect myself and my possible babies as fast as I can".
Branches will faster get strong and woody, leaves stay a little smaller too, they also look darker because of more densely packed chlorophyll inside the leaves. The transition goes faster too and I've seen the first preflowers on the UVB side within 3 fecken days, you get less stretch and shorter internodial spacings too and last but not least the plants start earlier to from the 1st trichomes. Up to a week earlier! They do everything a little faster and and later in flower you'll see much more purple, red and other colors. I also believe it has a shortening effect on the flowering cycle but I've also used far-red so I can not say that for sure.
Positive side effect, insects and fungal infects are also no problem anymore. Insects can see UV light and they avoid it because it damages their dna and UVB kills spores pretty fast too. Not as fast as UVC does, this takes only seconds, but UVB is used for hours so you can be sure it will do the same.

I've also tested it with a usually slightly purple Bubba's Gift I've used a few times before under my 160w LED and with 24w UVB (12% Arcadia bulb) this strain ended up looking almost like a black widow. The upper half of the buds were almost black and the colors also dissapeared pretty slow with the curing. The buds are still visible darker.
Also the upper leaves ended up getting almost black and when two leaves have overlapped the lower leaf still stays green. So it was for sure an effect of the UV light.
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awesome post brother, thanks for sharing the good experience!
 
Keesje

Keesje

Well-Known Member
burnpile said:
I had it running for 4 hrs per night but thought there was some leaf damage so reduced to 2 hrs. Will post some pics soon, really lots of trichomes this run and last.
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did you also notice that there were less bugs and insects?
 
B

burnpile

Well-Known Member
Keesje said:
did you also notice that there were less bugs and insects?
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I would say yes without any real proof. There is 0 +- in there now, and in times past there have been some. Other varibles may come into play. I am getting some good pic tonight, I think this is going to be some good shit.
 
SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Yeah, the Agromax pureUV bulbs are too strong to use them at the same height as your LED's. They need at least 24" and even then 1h can already be too much for UV sensitive strains. Better 28-30" but then you have your mainlights in the way.

I recommend to either use the Agromax powerveg+ bulbs (for US peeps) or the Arcadia D3dragon with 14% UVB/30% UVA (for EU growers). They both have almost the same spectrum and UV strength and their optimal hanging height is 12-16".

285nm is not UVC, the UVC range starts at 280nm(US) or 275nm(EU) depending who you ask. The problem is a UVB diode with peak wavelength 285nm would have a lower dominant wavelength and some light is probably already UVC. Even the Agromax pureUV bulbs have some light in the UVC range and that's the main reason why they are so damaging.
The UVR8 receptor in MJ responds to wavelength from 280-300nm (which is the lowest wavelength you'll find even in 3000m above 0) and the peak response it at 285nm. Maybe with the right filter coating one could remove the wavelength below 285nm but that's unneccessary.
The Arcadia and powerveg+ spectrum ends already at around 290-295nm. It takes longer to get the same response but you can usually use them all day long as soon as the plants are used to their light. This takes usually only around a week.

I've used a 12% d3desert Arcadia bulb with 12" distance for 12h per day, no issues!
I've used a 2ft bulb in a small 3sft chamber for 8h at 8" distance, also no issues!
In both cases the UVB dose was at least 40 fu.... kJ/m² and the only thing visible was a little heatstress on the upper leaves. Ah,... and of course an impressive thichome layer.

Because I already own 6 of these Agromax pureUV bulbs I will try to use them with a dimmable T5 ballast before I sell the new ones. Maybe I can figure out a way to use them without damaging the plants. Depends on how the bulbs behave when dimmed down but I will only found out it when I try it. The parts are already here I only need to find the time to replace the current ballast. And then it needs at least one or two test runs.

So if you don't want tops looking like these I strongly recommend to stay with 12 or 14% reptile bulbs. These 75/25% UVB/A pure UV bulbs have the plant shocked so hard that the whole run has finished with ~25% less than usual.

View attachment 4310788
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Do you know if spectrum is impacted by over/under driving t5s?

When I had fluoros in my led fixture I over drove them, balast factor of 1.2 (six 2 footers on a balast designed for up to four 4 footers). They were a mix of hortilux powerveg with uv, reds, agromax 10000K "finisher". I have a few of the 10000K from agromax, all are suppose to be the finisher but labeling and appearance are different. Was always curious if they have a slight shift like leds?

I always ran the pure uv in a seperate fixture (6-15 minutes ea. Hr.).
 
SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Normal glas is filtering UVB completely so you can watch your dragons as long as you want without protection. But there is no glas to protect you when you visit your groom. Pretty sure there is almost no UVB in 4ft distance from the bulbs but with only 1foot 5 minutes are probably enough to cause visible sun burn.
Long sleeves and cheap sun glases with UV400 sticker are already enough to protect yourself. And no, you don't need that under CMH/MH bulbs cause they only have 1,4% UVA but no UVB. I would not work for hours with naked body under such lights but a few minutes with normal clothings are no problem as long as you don't look directly in a running bulb.
I've worked for years with MH and HPS and have never protected my skin or anything else and even now with the pureUV bulbs I have not started to glow in the dark. At least not till now...
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I would encourage disabling uv and wearing appropriate shade eye pro.
Ansi has a standard on uv eye pro, I am not familiar with uv400? EU thing?
Safety glasses intended for non-welders working in areas where welding occurs would be a good thing to consider as arc flash is the result of uv and intensity.
If you can't or won't eliminate uv source use sunscreen.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
SSGrower said:
I would encourage disabling uv and wearing appropriate shade eye pro.
Ansi has a standard on uv eye pro, I am not familiar with uv400? EU thing?
Safety glasses intended for non-welders working in areas where welding occurs would be a good thing to consider as arc flash is the result of uv and intensity.
If you can't or won't eliminate uv source use sunscreen.
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Yupp, its an EU standard for UV protection! Welding glases would work too.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
SSGrower said:
Do you know if spectrum is impacted by over/under driving t5s?

When I had fluoros in my led fixture I over drove them, balast factor of 1.2 (six 2 footers on a balast designed for up to four 4 footers). They were a mix of hortilux powerveg with uv, reds, agromax 10000K "finisher". I have a few of the 10000K from agromax, all are suppose to be the finisher but labeling and appearance are different. Was always curious if they have a slight shift like leds?

I always ran the pure uv in a seperate fixture (6-15 minutes ea. Hr.).
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Should not be affected. On the Solacure(Flowerpower) page the explicit mention that you can drive their bulbs between 20 and 80w so I would say there is almost no difference in the spectum.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
DrGreenT420 said:
Ill definitely have to keep that in mind. Now just leaning towards the Reptisun 24in fixture (the fixture for the 34" bulbs is actually 36" and would be a tight fit in my 3x3). I can pick that up for $40 -$50 which is about how much I figure Id spend building my own, and I like the look or their wider, really low profile fixture. Would that fixture not lend its self more to the 12% Arcadias running closer than the 14%s running farther away ? The way I built my COB array was to go above and beyond the tried and true 6 COBs to get a perfect spacing and better coverage by using 9 instead, so Im able to run my lights pretty close (10-12in, some times down to 8in) A lot of what you have explained has really clicked with me, but I seem to be missing why exactly the 14% would be better in my situation. Is it just the 2% more UVB ? Does the 14% offer a better spectum of light ? Or is it just a more natural ratio of UVA to UVB ? Better coverage from being up higher ? Just worried about getting the 14%s, running them higher, and having my COB array casting a shadow. Either Arcadia option I think Id be very happy with, the increase in blues is definitely something I was looking for as well so thats perfect. Im currently growing in a basement in a decriminalized city, in Michigan, so Im very ok with letting my nugs get as stinky as they desire.

I think Im planning on running my UV and 730s very similarly to you. I was thinking get my plants slowly worked up to around 8 - 10hrs UV during the middle of my 12hrs on. And letting my 730s run the last hr or so with the extra 5 minutes after lights off.
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In the end it depends on the used distance. A 14% bulb reaches 10cm deeper like a 12%(same intensity level). Is 12" your prefered hanging height you would get ~150μW/cm² out of a 12% bulb. Is it 16" you should use the 14% bulb to get around 150μW/cm². I really down know if there is a difference between the Reptisun 10.0 and the Arcadia 12% bulbs but maybe you can find tests like this below for a Reptisun bulbs too. Youtube has also a few test videos showing UVB numbers at different heights. As far as I know there are only two bulb manufacturers creating these bulbs, one german and a company in thailand so they all get their bulbs from the same manufacturers. I'm pretty sure different brand resellers use exactly the same bulbs but with different numbers. So maybe the Reptisun 10.0 and the Arcadia 12% are exact the same bulbs.

I would try to find a test about the Reptisun 10.0 bulbs and would compare UVB intensity at different heights. If these number are close to the Arcadia 12% #'s it's probably the same bulb.
I've friends using the 6% bulbs but all day long. The daily dose should be the same like with 6h and a 12% bulb. All these reptile bulbs should work. They all try to mimic the sun ratio at different locations.
Lets say you have a columbian gold which is a jungle sativa and 6% jungle bulb... should work.
With an afghan indika found in 2000m height should can handle a 12% bulb.
And a mexican sativa which is an equatorial sativa usually found in 2000m height can maybe handle a 14% bulb.

Which one you take depends also on how long you want to use them per day.
If energy is cheap there is nothing wrong running the 6% bulbs all day long.

From my experience I can say each strain has different UVB resistance. Some can handle more UVB others less. My first Bluedream hermied under 12% but the 2nd one tested with the pureUV(75%) bulb was the most resistent out of 5 strains.
All other strains were damaged in this run only the BD was strong enough to handle 4x 15 minutes.
To me that means you have to figure out how much is okay with every new strain in your groom.
 

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Keesje

Keesje

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
I've friends using the 6% bulbs but all day long. The daily dose should be the same like with 6h and a 12% bulb.
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If you would use the UV-B mainly for the prevention of bugs, insects or mildew, would it be better to run the 6% bulbs for 12 hours?
Or would the 12% lamp for 6 hours have the same impact?
 
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