UV Suppliment Lighting

Randomblame · May 23, 2019

SSGrower said:
To one degree or another radiation will both reflect from and absorb into a surface. I am not sure what heatsinks you are talking about, maybe the reflectors on flourescent tubes?

Sorry, mate!
@mr. childs asked that question one post above yours and I've missed somehow pressing the reply button. Hit that like button two times instead. I want actually answering his question..
I may should re-read what I've wrote before I hit that "post reply" button, lol!

oldbeancounter · May 23, 2019

Randomblame said:
Actually you only need an efficient white light to get good results. You can try to improve the spectrum to make it more efficient and supplement the missing wavelengths on both ends of the spectrum. CRI90 adds for instance more deep and far-red and combined with an UVB reptile bulb you have already improved a lot. The more efficient red wavelength and the higher amount of far-red speed things up(for instance thru the emerson effect) so you can yield up to a week earlier and the UV light increase the over all quality of your endproduct.
The difference in electrical efficiency between CRI80 and 90 are much less important because their better spectrum can make up for the difference or do even better. I'm really keen on the new EBgen3 strips in CRI90 and will order a few as additional sidelights as soon as they are available. The effect on the lower areas was just awesome!
Shit, bro! My party cup champion ended up with 0 larf and only half as much leaf trim as usual. Every single bud was nice and compact, even the smallest ones and I've not used more watts because I've dimmed down the top light accordingly.

Currently I build 2 new 200w lights based on 2 CRI95 HL boards and an added reptile bulb and plan to add 10 vertical 5000°k/CRI90 EB strips(10w each) as sidelights mounted with 12" gaps between each strip.

@Randomblame
decided on four of these I just ordered them
https://www.led-tech.de/de/Horticulture-Plug-und-Grow-Angebotsset-Hyper-Red-Deep-Blue
@Moflow
Had linked to them thanks
Do you have these in your light moflow?
Hoping these heat sinks will do for now for those kits, have 4 each 48 inches long to deal with heat
if the heatsinks i have are not suitable I will have order from same place just didnt have funds till I transfer money tomorrow.
https://www.heatsinkusa.com/1-000-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/#gallery

I have 2 of these for 3000k I will fit in light somehow not sure yet , thought would need them more so for flower not veg?
https://growerslights.com/collections/horticulture-lighting-group/products/horticulture-lighting-group-320-watt-xl-quantum-board-led-kit
I should get some zzz's been working on this light for days now lol

SSGrower · May 23, 2019

Randomblame said:
Sorry, mate!
@mr. childs asked that question one post above yours and I've missed somehow pressing the reply button. Hit that like button two times instead. I want actually answering his question..
I may should re-read what I've wrote before I hit that "post reply" button, lol!

Congrats on the graceous cup victory btw.

oldbeancounter · May 23, 2019

some info on color LED's

SSGrower said:
Just light will fade lots of finishes.

Not some
I have a machined/anodized fishing reels that are 20 years old.
Same goes for exposed aluminum parts on hull.
Seen 1000's of hours on water and one heck of a lot of uv and sun
out floating about last 30 plus years.
The anodizing is done in a way that it just never fades nor is it easy to scratch.
You won't get that quality though unless you drop $1000.00 plus.
But then again even in that market that is an exception as most stuff is off shored now and done half ass.
You can put a very thin UV blocking wax car wax on stuff it works to some degree,
me I do not care it is a light not a
art piece

SSGrower said:
Just light will fade lots of finishes.

not if you use a good car wax
pinsink of course is out but anything you can get a Q-tip in you can wax.
works on boats etc exposed to sun-water-temp extremes and UV
me I don't care, it is a light

ChiefRunningPhist · May 23, 2019

oldbeancounter said:
@ChiefRunningPhist
Wicked cool graphics
Where would a high attitude land race's UV exposure be vers the summer solstice in Whales, UK ?

So many factors. More though. More UV in higher elevations.

Haha, if the sun is a cookie, the UV could be like the difference in the amount of vanilla added. It makes a difference, but it's a super small portion of the whole and its like 1/2 drop vs 5 drops per entire batch kind of a thing.

Ive been looking into UV index lately as a bit of a probe. Even with areas of depleted ozone or immense UV radiation, the WV range barely moves, and the overall wattage is very little. A tiny change in UV can be huge. A possible UV index of 10.6 can have but only 0.074w/m2 of 305nm (or 0.0068w/ft2 of 305nm), and only 0.0006w/m2 (or 0.0000557w/ft2) of 295nm. If you're designing for a room don't add too much. A little bit goes a long ways. That's as far as my knowledge goes..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_index

ChiefRunningPhist · May 23, 2019

Rocket Soul said:
Actually these graphics are less helpfull in choosing a UVB light than i thought: have a look how all the linear/lightube lights have much lower output everywhere on the spectrum (and remember, this is absolute values, not relative to max peak as you normally see in datasheets).

The higher values in the bulbs are simply cause their output is more concentrated than the linears.

But at least you can make some decent comparison within each category, bulb and linear/tube.

Ya I figured it must have been measured from a single sensor. I was going to mention it when I jumped back on but looks like you beat me to it haha, as always good eye @Rocket Soul

They still give a good idea of SPD and if you disregard the actual Y values the proportionality is maintained.

nachooo · May 23, 2019

Hello all, I have two led strips of 365 nm..they spread the light nicely over a 3x3 área about 30 watts total. Also I have two more strips with far red..6 leds each one about 16 watts total.
I use the far red strips for general suplementation and EOD.
My question is...Can I run the UVA leds at the same time than Far red leds in the EOD treatment? Will the UVA leds interfere with the Far red effect in the EOD time? Will the UVA leds avoid the posible strecht from far red in the EOD time?
Is anybody doing this or did it?
Thanks in advance

.RootDown · May 23, 2019

nachooo said:
Can I run the UVA leds at the same time than Far red leds in the EOD treatment?

I don't understand what the benefit would be to run the UV lamps during Emerson Effect at lights out... The Emerson Effect is something the plant has naturally experienced and as such as developed a response to the stimuli. In nature once the sun fades there is no further UV. To introduce it in the growing environment is forcing the plant to deal with a scenario it is not adapted to deal with. That sounds like stress.

nachooo · May 23, 2019

.RootDown said:
I don't understand what the benefit would be to run the UV lamps during Emerson Effect at lights out... The Emerson Effect is something the plant has naturally experienced and as such as developed a response to the stimuli. In nature once the sun fades there is no further UV. To introduce it in the growing environment is forcing the plant to deal with a scenario it is not adapted to deal with. That sounds like stress.

I am not talking about Emerson effect..Emerson effect happens with the addition of Deep red and Far red.....The EOD is only the addition of Far red with all the other lights off a few minutes at the end of the day..Think you did not understand my question….

.RootDown · May 23, 2019

nachooo said:
Think you did not understand my question

Yes, you're right. I was thinking flowering initiator, 730nm after lights out (5mins).

I also learned that I was calling that "Emerson Effect", which is something completely different.

nachooo · May 23, 2019

.RootDown said:
Yes, you're right. I was thinking flowering initiator, 730nm after lights out (5mins).

I also learned that I was calling that "Emerson Effect", which is something completely different.

Yes Far red can be used for several things.. I use EOD from 2 or 3 week of flowering time trying to avoid stretching problems..but as I have some pure uva leds..maybe I can use the EOD from the start of flowering without no far red stretchting at all if I use the UVA at the same time to counteract the far red effect...but I dont know if the UVA Will change the far red effect regarding shortening flowering times..

oldbeancounter · May 23, 2019

ChiefRunningPhist said:
So many factors. More though. More UV in higher elevations.

Haha, if the sun is a cookie, the UV could be like the difference in the amount of vanilla added. It makes a difference, but it's a super small portion of the whole and its like 1/2 drop vs 5 drops per entire batch kind of a thing.

Ive been looking into UV index lately as a bit of a probe. Even with areas of depleted ozone or immense UV radiation, the WV range barely moves, and the overall wattage is very little. A tiny change in UV can be huge. A possible UV index of 10.6 can have but only 0.074w/m2 of 305nm (or 0.0068w/ft2 of 305nm), and only 0.0006w/m2 (or 0.0000557w/ft2) of 295nm. If you're designing for a room don't add too much. A little bit goes a long ways. That's as far as my knowledge goes so far..
View attachment 4338426
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_index

Interesting and far above my scope of knowledge lol

nachooo said:
Yes Far red can be used for several things.. I use EOD from 2 or 3 week of flowering time trying to avoid stretching problems..but as I have some pure uva leds..maybe I can use the EOD from the start of flowering without no far red stretchting at all if I use the UVA at the same time to counteract the far red effect...but I dont know if the UVA Will change the far red speeds fruiting/flowering but I don't have far red ..yet at least, so cant comment on that combination.
What the right amount of UV is I do not think is an easy answer, I know what too much is that is about it.

GreeneryBob · May 23, 2019

nachooo said:
Yes Far red can be used for several things.. I use EOD from 2 or 3 week of flowering time trying to avoid stretching problems..but as I have some pure uva leds..maybe I can use the EOD from the start of flowering without no far red stretchting at all if I use the UVA at the same time to counteract the far red effect...but I dont know if the UVA Will change the far red effect regarding shortening flowering times..

I am only postulating here, but if 660nm tells the plant to wake and 730 tells it to steep, POSSIBLY, the uva would just trigger the plants to stay squat and not interfere.
HOWEVER, this might not completely be the case, and there might be other factors at play with other spectra having an effect on waking the plant to a lesser degree.

What I plan on doing with my similar setup is running blues with 730nm for the last few minutes of lights on and 5 minutes of pure 730 after everything else is off....after the stretch

I have read that 730 EOD DURING stretch can make it more pronounced, but that isn't from personal experience.

Sorry, not really an answer

Randomblame · May 23, 2019

Randomblame said:
Sorry, mate!
@mr. childs asked that question one post above yours and I've missed somehow pressing the reply button. Hit that like button two times instead. I want actually answering his question..
I may should re-read what I've wrote before I hit that "post reply" button, lol!

I think its because of the anodized surface.. especially when colored too. I've often read from pinkish plastics because of UVB but not so often from problems with heat sinks.
I've for instance used colorless anodized alu sheets as reflectors for my T5 bulbs and till now no bronze tint. I've also used hammered reflector sheet metal, same thing, no strange colors.

SSGrower said:
Congrats on the graceous cup victory btw.

Yeah, thanks! I'm really happy!
I've decided to take the Amare fixture(2nd prize according to the dawg) and not the HLG Trinity(1st prize). It's btw a SolarBar-4 with canna spec spectrum. Exactly half a SolarBar-8 which has maximal 880w. So a SB-4 should have half as much..
Fits much better in my 4x 2,5' area like one 20x 21" board with 520w. And efficiency wise the SolarBars are not really far behind.

Randomblame · May 24, 2019

nachooo said:
Yes Far red can be used for several things.. I use EOD from 2 or 3 week of flowering time trying to avoid stretching problems..but as I have some pure uva leds..maybe I can use the EOD from the start of flowering without no far red stretchting at all if I use the UVA at the same time to counteract the far red effect...but I dont know if the UVA Will change the far red effect regarding shortening flowering times..

UVA has almost the same signaling effect like blue light and tells the phytochromes exact the opposide! I would not use it for EoD treatments cause it also drives PS. In the worst case you only cause a little growth but lose the initiator effect.

Rocket Soul · May 24, 2019

On far red eod: if you get stretch just decrease the amount of time for far red?
People quoting 10mins or more: its probably too much unless youre using like 3w per meter. 4000umols/600= 6.5 umol/s whic is about 2-2.5 w of decent far reds. I have a feeling most people use more watts than that. To get an even coverage you would prob need more.

oldbeancounter · May 24, 2019

ChiefRunningPhist said:
So many factors. More though. More UV in higher elevations.

Haha, if the sun is a cookie, the UV could be like the difference in the amount of vanilla added. It makes a difference, but it's a super small portion of the whole and its like 1/2 drop vs 5 drops per entire batch kind of a thing.

Ive been looking into UV index lately as a bit of a probe. Even with areas of depleted ozone or immense UV radiation, the WV range barely moves, and the overall wattage is very little. A tiny change in UV can be huge. A possible UV index of 10.6 can have but only 0.074w/m2 of 305nm (or 0.0068w/ft2 of 305nm), and only 0.0006w/m2 (or 0.0000557w/ft2) of 295nm. If you're designing for a room don't add too much. A little bit goes a long ways. That's as far as my knowledge goes..
View attachment 4338426
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_index

@ChiefRunningPhist
I think UV varies far more than we know

https://www.livescience.com/46701-andes-highest-uv-index-measured.html

I think lighting must be in each color/nm to be most effective.
Full spectrum one white Samsung LED is a fable
How does one add violet most cost effectively to a self-build light any idea?
Cutter seems to be getting heat for long shipping times which I guess could be
worse and cant sell them.
You know a lot about lighting is this a hobby or perhaps a job?

oldbeancounter · May 24, 2019

Randomblame said:
Yeah, that's what I've mentioned. You want the Square series diodes soldered on strips.
The hyper-red/blue mix could already have the Square series because of the high difference but with no guarantee. Better contact them and ask them directly if they have strips with Osram Square. If not, ask them if they can do a certain amount of strips for you. They have own pick and place bots and its not a problem for them. They a very customer friendly.
They have created most of the grow modules they have because of customer wishes and then started to make own boards and strips with LM301b too. Before the LM301b came out they have just sold Nichia and Osram diodes but none of them was especially for growing. They only strips were 4" long with 6 deepreds or blue.
They profit a lot from the current situation on the LED market and can sell their LM301b strips at almost half the cost of a comparable H-influx L06 strips from Samsung and they use a better binning too.

@Randomblame
Bad news, all out of strips I thought I bought,
see details below if you have time at some point.
well they emailed me back.
Stopped making strips I THOUGHT I ordered.
They will supply plug and play Diode in the square diode 2 watt as you mentioned I should try and get as follows.

"thank you very much for your inquiry."

Please find here my suggestion to your e-mail. You can run 30pcs Square Hyper Red on 100cm of the following Heatsinks @700mA.

1pcs LT-2656 CoverLine Aluminium LED Profile V2 100cm Black Edition (transp. Cover)

30pcs LT-3385 Osram OSLON Square hyper-red Plug&Light Star (Horticulture)

1pcs LT-3183 Power Supply MeanWell LCM-60

About your first inquiry: The Horticulture Plug & Grow Special Offer Set Hyper Red+Deep-Blue will not be available any, because the Power Supply is end of life. We do only have one remaining Set in Stock.

My question if you could help as I am lost is how many red and how many deep blue would i need of these "square" diodes to cover a 5 by 5 foot area?
I want to spread them out over about 4000 mm of heat sinks I have coming.
If need be can buy theirs too
Looking to make 4 bars about 40-44 inches long with blue and red mixed over the canopy as best I can with the 5000k light strips
I want wide spacing so I can bring this light down close to canopy
i have 14 of the LT-QB22A IN 5000k and 1120 mm long here now heatsinks here monday.
I am still running as we discussed meanwell 600 HLG 48B.
Have you purchase of them and how is their delivery times like as Cutter seems to be very slow as they are swamped is that a fair comment ?
How much area will the 60 watts he is pricing will it cover in a tent (veg or flower) turned of course as needed by time frame.?
I may have misunderstood and got those 14 strips all in one spectrum just trying to work around it to fill in the holes they leave.
thanks
I made a little diagram as I cant work out the math and wanted to make this as easy as possible, don't laugh at it lol

thank you

Moflow · May 24, 2019

35 days 12 12 under the solarcures

RQS Royal Gorrilla and Dark Horse Genetics Kings Banner clones

oldbeancounter · May 24, 2019

Randomblame said:
Great find! Less powerful flowerpower bulbs but almost the same spectrum. Fuck! Since when they have T8 bulbs? Sad you hardly get them here in europe. I find them even better for non professionals cuz its probably pretty hard to really damage the plants with them. Ratio UVA to B is a little lower but its still two times more UVA.
@Randomblame
seems there may be dealer in Europe for anyone looking for bulbs
May have changed but seems bulbs are made in Europe
http://blog.solacure.com/2018-so-far-new-products-for-cannabis-growers/

Interesting link, bro! But its almost only for human skin and human skin behaves much different like plants or reptile skins. But even the skin can be adjusted to handle higher UV rates without getting damaged. Think on Afrika's, South and Middle Amerika's or Australia's first nations, they all have a dark skin which is more used to UV like ours. If they move to europe or so they get much more issues with the vitamin D levels in their bodies.
Its aktually pretty strange. You better avoid it but on the other hand your body needs it to stay healthy.
Without all the sourrounding EM waves no life would be possible but that's another thing.

UV Suppliment Lighting

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