Triploids

HydroRed · Mar 22, 2016

Dr. Who said:
I CALL POSSIBLE HORSE SHIT ON THIS CLAIM!

The easiest way to poly a plant is with a chemical that is so toxic to the seeds (you must attempt to treat the seeds as treating a plant - kills it) that you would be LUCKY to get 1-2 viable seeds from 100! Then, it weakens the seed so much that chances are the seedling will not make it! Once you get a live one, you can NOT use the plant or the products from that plant because it's now STILL toxic to humans! You must breed that to another to get the poly to the next set of seeds and grow those out to be able to consume in any way! Other then that it takes a whole lot breeding manipulation......I know of only 1 breeder/seed company out of Spain doing quality work with Polys and they're not putting polys out publicly....Only breeding experiments for down the line train crossing. as far as these guys say it's the triploids that take the long bloom runs....Sam Skunkman fucked with it some time back, but as far as I know know he tabled that work.

Poly cannabis is way, way, way rare in nature!

To even GET me interested in you actually having grown THAT plant. I NEED to see other pictures of it....If you grew that. You have shit loads of shots from differing views! I know I WOULD!

Sorry dude - PROVE IT! More pics please and name the breeder the beans came from please.

I dont lie or bullshit on here. I stated already in my previous post that the breeder was ILGM (ILoveGrowingMarijuana) from the NL. They had great genetics, but were terrible at getting them to people (thats a whole other post).

Again....I DONT BULLSHIT OR LIE ON HERE. Im only allowed 10 pics per post so if you need more pics let me know. I was intrigued by it, but wasnt overly interested in it so I didnt take a million shots of it. Everything I said is 100% true and dont feel the need to keep up with the Jones' in storytelling. I didnt use any chemicals on it and it was garbage other than for hash. The buzz was the equivilant to the other 7 plants that were normal.

Dr. Who · Mar 23, 2016

chronicboomz said:
During my research of polyploid cannabis. I have come up with what I believe to be the initial source of this super weed. It was said, but not confirmed, that UBC Professor David Suzuki, doing genetic research (1977), created a polyploid plant (tetraploid) by treating it with colchicine based upon the work of Menzel/Brown and Warmke. This plant was originally a hybrid of Thai (sativa) x Purple Afghani (indica) and was then treated with Colchicine (Autumn Locus bulb). There are certainly other clones that were created by other breeders, especially in Hawaii, but the initial commercial tetraploid was developed in B.C. by the Canadian Government and UBC for Cancer patients. I would estimate that the THC content of polyploids to be well over 30% and maybe up to 40%

Sam Skunkman has personally asked David Suzuki if this was true. He said NO!
Billy Bud is really Billy B.S. on this topic! The plants, like OG KUSH he listed were never tetraploid (poly) plants....

Also boomz, sorry the plant you show is again, Trifoliate.

The only way to prove poly is to have it tested under a scanning electron microscope and count the chromosomes (unless it makes it to bloom like the pic Red supplied)! The Spanish breeder/seed comp. says that they can and do slip BACK to normal as young vegging plants!
The Spanish breeder/seed comp says the whole Canadian story is malarkey and that NOTHING it has run has produced even 30% THC! Just another myth busted.

NOW HERE is where I begin to believe Red as he stated it was nothing special.....Although we're back to the toxic plant problem.

Dr. Who · Mar 23, 2016

HydroRed said:
I dont lie or bullshit on here. I stated already in my previous post that the breeder was ILGM (ILoveGrowingMarijuana) from the NL. They had great genetics, but were terrible at getting them to people (thats a whole other post).

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Again....I DONT BULLSHIT OR LIE ON HERE. Im only allowed 10 pics per post so if you need more pics let me know. I was intrigued by it, but wasnt overly interested in it so I didnt take a million shots of it. Everything I said is 100% true and dont feel the need to keep up with the Jones' in storytelling. I didnt use any chemicals on it and it was garbage other than for hash. The buzz was the equivilant to the other 7 plants that were normal.

First off.. Thank you for the pictures! You have proven you had a poly! I am now standing on your side!

Folks - This is legit! Red had a poly (tetraploid)!

The reason behind saying "possible horse shit" is I did NOT want to call you a liar ! Strange things happen!
While naturally poly is rare - it does not mean it don't happen! Could be that your seed company is in cahoots with The Spanish seed breeder and as does happen a seed slipped in with something else....The other thing is that we have before had pic hijackers and shit stories along with them.....It was the shear rarity of poly's that had me wanting more pics.

The part about it being nothing special was the part that made it possible in my understanding.

I'm glad of the way you answered back! If you have any remaining frustration - I'm really sorry - it was not intended that way...

I have to ask for knowledge.
Was the veg as long as they say vs. bloom?
Water and nutrient needs higher like they say?
Damn I wish I'd had that plant. Sooo many breeding tests I'd have liked to try!

Thanks again !!!

NICE to have actually grown one out!

HydroRed · Mar 23, 2016

@Dr. Who To answer your questions about the poly (please bare in mind this was close to 2 yrs ago and I didnt record much but just recalling from memory) that the veg time was equal to all the others of the same strain and seed batch. I believe I vegged under the 1k's for approx 3-4 wks. The room I was growing in was just freshly built and had not been perfected yet but ran pretty consistant temps & RH. I got 20 fem WW seeds from ILGM. The seeds germinated wonderfully without hassle ( had 2 seperate runs and only 1 of approx 17 failed to pop). Bloom on the other hand was much longer for the poly. She went over 10 wks (and likely could have run another week at least) or so vs 8 for the others. The WW I recieved was an Indica strong gene, probably close to 100% if I had to guess on visual alone. I had fan leaves that would cover my face from the 3.5-4' plants which I've never had before. As for feeding, I pretty much ran the same juice for all of them and just topped the buckets with a main res so she fed the same "diet" as all of the others (which was probably pH'd @ 5.6-6.0 & had a ppm of no more than 400 max IIRC). I never really run higher than 500 ppm on anything even on my heavy feeding strains since I run hydro. The characteristics of the plant showed on the lowers as well as the top of the Poly. I had 2-3 lowers that the colas developed the same as the main cola but on a smaller scale. The part about the "Gigantism" I read in a previous post are very true along with the smell being extreme compared to the others. I also remember that the main stalk was as large as two of my thumbs which was remarkable compared to the others considering the plants didnt get above 4' at their tallest. Considering what the stalk had to feed it does make sense though. Thinking back on it, she did drink a lot more than the others did. I was topping off the res much more frequently compared to the others.

Dr. Who · Mar 23, 2016

HydroRed said:
@Dr. Who To answer your questions about the poly (please bare in mind this was close to 2 yrs ago and I didnt record much but just recalling from memory) that the veg time was equal to all the others of the same strain and seed batch. I believe I vegged under the 1k's for approx 3-4 wks. The room I was growing in was just freshly built and had not been perfected yet but ran pretty consistant temps & RH. I got 20 fem WW seeds from ILGM. The seeds germinated wonderfully without hassle ( had 2 seperate runs and only 1 of approx 17 failed to pop). Bloom on the other hand was much longer for the poly. She went over 10 wks (and likely could have run another week at least) or so vs 8 for the others. The WW I recieved was an Indica strong gene, probably close to 100% if I had to guess on visual alone. I had fan leaves that would cover my face from the 3.5-4' plants which I've never had before. As for feeding, I pretty much ran the same juice for all of them and just topped the buckets with a main res so she fed the same "diet" as all of the others (which was probably pH'd @ 5.6-6.0 & had a ppm of no more than 400 max IIRC). I never really run higher than 500 ppm on anything even on my heavy feeding strains since I run hydro. The characteristics of the plant showed on the lowers as well as the top of the Poly. I had 2-3 lowers that the colas developed the same as the main cola but on a smaller scale. The part about the "Gigantism" I read in a previous post are very true along with the smell being extreme compared to the others. I also remember that the main stalk was as large as two of my thumbs which was remarkable compared to the others considering the plants didnt get above 4' at their tallest. Considering what the stalk had to feed it does make sense though. Thinking back on it, she did drink a lot more than the others did. I was topping off the res much more frequently compared to the others.

Cool beans RED!
Thanks for the reply!!

Very interesting to be sure...BTW the Spanish breeder is Buddhaseeds (Not Big Buddha)......They have a very interesting thread from a few years back in the ICMAG web site about their project.....I subbed it and read it with great interest! I think I have that book marked on another PC - gone to look and send it to this one. (music from final Jeopardy playing)

GOT IT.....
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=296131

You might like reading that! Enjoy!

Peace!

HydroRed · Mar 23, 2016

Check out Robert Bergman if you would like to try to find some insight on the breeder of the poly I had. Does this mean this was a lab created poly only or can this happen in nature? If this is a lab only occurrence then my question is, who experienced greater or significant gains in quality,thc,cbd,weight,taste etc to make someone do this much to further its genetics in this manner ya know? Where was the initial "gain" to promote all of this? I didnt see any of it other than smell & trichs, but the other 3 major negative factors regarding the plant negate this. I couldnt get past the taste, the trim was a nightmare and even then close to impossible & drying was difficult and required special treatment to get done without getting any rot etc.

Dr. Who · Mar 24, 2016

HydroRed said:
Check out Robert Bergman if you would like to try to find some insight on the breeder of the poly I had. Does this mean this was a lab created poly only or can this happen in nature? If this is a lab only occurrence then my question is, who experienced greater or significant gains in quality,thc,cbd,weight,taste etc to make someone do this much to further its genetics in this manner ya know? Where was the initial "gain" to promote all of this? I didnt see any of it other than smell & trichs, but the other 3 major negative factors regarding the plant negate this. I couldnt get past the taste, the trim was a nightmare and even then close to impossible & drying was difficult and required special treatment to get done without getting any rot etc.

I shall, thanks.
It "can" happen in nature. Extremely rare! I would say lab for yours.
I'll guess that the rumor mill from the good old 70's supplied the BS......It was a kinda fad back then. Colchesene - the toxic chemical used to induce this multi chromosome "Frankenplant" was sold in the add section of High Times. Good old HT soon did a story on it. As normal for HT, they didn't really cover the base's and there was hype just in that. The rumors flew fast and a few of us gave it a whorl. I didn't, the toxic thing just put me back....I remember a "friend" doing it and he had real problems even getting it to work. When he did and got to the 2nd gen. Same thing happened as to today...Quality was blah and a pain to work with.

Today we have too many jumping off the handle and going "Look at what it does. I need to try that!" Billy Buds Bull Shit does no favors for the truth. Buddhaseeds was doing it for possible passing of breeding "traits". The best thing they did was keep it public, tell the truth and dispel myth's!

Thanks again for the "rest" of the pic's Red! Very cool to have gotten that experience!

chronicals77 · Jul 24, 2016

I dont know why that would have been so hard to believe. He showed me that plant on another thread and I believed him immediately because I have a Triploid, Polyploidy, or Tetra polyploidycannabinol or whatever the fuck they're called. I dont think anybody really knows what they are called for sure. Anyway, mine is only 2.5" tall but has 3 identical leaves at every node. It just now put out the three leaflet leaves in the past couple days. It started out weak looking and lagging but its growing fine now. Based on Reds and several others grows I dont think im going to mess with it. I dont have time or money to waste on a subpar plant. Dr. Who, if you want it you can have it. By the way its White Widow x Big Bud bred by femaleseeds.nl.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

Wtf guys its simple science and most of you are getting confused, let me explain the facts in an easy to understand way....

Absolutely nowhere does polyploidy mean three leaves or any crap like that, you can google that fact on wiki.

The stretched out bud on the first page is not polyploidy its whorlled phylotaxy i.e. you fucked up.

Knowledge here on these subjects is mostly bs and limited.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

SPLFreak808 said:
Ive had over 12 females sprouts from the same haze mother most if them tripple, some of them quad cotyledons. They keep the 3-4 branch structure but the tops look like regular tops when you flower them. It basically just grows a bit more bushy. I've never had a tripple or quad that only threw out a pair of fans.

Is this what you are looking for? A true poly i believe View attachment 3598285

Nope thats whorlled phylotaxy, more leaf than bud if you look closely enough, polyploidy is somthing totally different.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

chronicboomz said:
Hi Richie,

Not quite sure if this is the same sort of thing you are seeing, but I have 3 leaves sprouting at each side of every node, with a separate side branch starting at the base of every leaf. So, in affect, 6 leaves where there should be 2, and 6 side branches where there should be 2. Its in a scrog net (female seeds c99) and is SUPER bushy. How are your WW x Critical looking?View attachment 3637627 View attachment 3637628 View attachment 3637629

Whorlled phylotaxy again.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

HydroRed said:
I dont lie or bullshit on here. I stated already in my previous post that the breeder was ILGM (ILoveGrowingMarijuana) from the NL. They had great genetics, but were terrible at getting them to people (thats a whole other post).

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Again....I DONT BULLSHIT OR LIE ON HERE. Im only allowed 10 pics per post so if you need more pics let me know. I was intrigued by it, but wasnt overly interested in it so I didnt take a million shots of it. Everything I said is 100% true and dont feel the need to keep up with the Jones' in storytelling. I didnt use any chemicals on it and it was garbage other than for hash. The buzz was the equivilant to the other 7 plants that were normal.

Sorry but 100% whorlled phylotaxy.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

Whorlled phyllotaxy -

Leaves may also be *whorled
* if several leaves arise, or appear to arise, from the same level (at the same node
) on a stem.

Polyploidy -

*Polyploid* cells
and organisms
are those containing more than two paired (homologous
) sets of chromosomes
.

I just googled that from wiki, its not rocket science!

HydroRed · Jul 24, 2016

Kingrow1 said:
Wtf guys its simple science and most of you are getting confused, let me explain the facts in an easy to understand way....

Absolutely nowhere does polyploidy mean three leaves or any crap like that, you can google that fact on wiki.

The stretched out bud on the first page is not polyploidy its whorlled phylotaxy i.e. you fucked up.

Knowledge here on these subjects is mostly bs and limited.

Kingrow1 said:
Whorlled phyllotaxy -

Leaves may also be *whorled
* if several leaves arise, or appear to arise, from the same level (at the same node
) on a stem.

Polyploidy -

*Polyploid* cells
and organisms
are those containing more than two paired (homologous
) sets of chromosomes
.

I just googled that from wiki, its not rocket science!

Google "Polyploidy cannabis" and tell me what comes up between sites and images? Its not "BS" limited to just this site or thread.. And you are correct....it is limited knowledge, since people just like to roll from thread to thread telling people they are wrong, but not saying why, or adding any "real truth" or factual information to the subject. Since you keep saying its not rocket science implying were all fuckin stupid, maybe you can set everyone straight with your version in lamens terms so us dummies can grasp this simple "not rocket science" concept that the majority of the INTERNET seems to get so wrong.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

HydroRed said:
Google "Polyploidy cannabis" and tell me what comes up between sites and images? Its not "BS" limited to just this site or thread.. And you are correct....it is limited knowledge, since people just like to roll from thread to thread telling people they are wrong, but not saying why, or adding any "real truth" or factual information to the subject. Since you keep saying its not rocket science implying were all fuckin stupid, maybe you can set everyone straight with your version in lamens terms so us dummies can grasp this simple "not rocket science" concept that the majority of the INTERNET seems to get so wrong.

Kingrow1 said:
Whorlled phyllotaxy -

Leaves may also be *whorled
* if several leaves arise, or appear to arise, from the same level (at the same node
) on a stem.

Polyploidy -

*Polyploid* cells
and organisms
are those containing more than two paired (homologous
) sets of chromosomes
.

I just googled that from wiki, its not rocket science!

I did above, one describes what you have and the other describes somthing different. The fact that ill educated cannabis growers/sites think whorlled phyllotaxy = polyploidy and trifolates = triploids is not my fault and what makes the truth hard to see for all the bs.

So are you saying because you have a leafy whorlled bud you have extra chromosomes?? Sounds bs to me!

chronicals77 · Jul 24, 2016

I have not seen on anyones plants including my own any whorlled effect in the leaves whatsoever. I was told by a breeder that its simply called a tri-leaf mutation. Its all these forums putting names to it like triploid, polyploidy, whorlled phylotaxy, ect... I havent seen or found any scientific explaination yet for this mutation. Until then i'll stick with tri-leaf because its simple and the name that makes the most sense.

SPLFreak808 · Jul 24, 2016

Kingrow1 said:
Nope thats whorlled phylotaxy, more leaf than bud if you look closely enough, polyploidy is somthing totally different.

Good to know about the whole poly/tetra thing, i think that specific pic i posted is called canabis fasciation though or some type of F-LC/LC phenomenon.

Screen shot 2011-06-06 at 9.05.48 PM.png

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

SPLFreak808 said:
Good to know about the whole poly/tetra thing, i think that specific pic i posted is called canabis fasciation though or some type of F-LC/LC phenomenon. View attachment 3740314

Fasciation is linked to the apical dominance problem, cresting is another name. There is lots on this subject but none of it relates to polyploidy or triploids. I prefer the word fasciation, less tainted by mj growers than whorlled phylotaxy.

chronicals77 · Jul 24, 2016

From what I read Whorled Phylotaxy refers to a natural growth in some plants. Not a mutation. Some oaks grow with 3 or more leaves from one node and thats just the way those species grow. ie Whorled Phylotaxy. Tri-leaf cannabis is not natural but one day be all thats left if so many people dont stop fucking with plants. It IS supposed to be a rare natural occurance when genes of a plant go haywire. The reason people are seeing so many from bred seeds is because people are breeding them to death. It is not a good thing. Its piss poor breeding or waaaaayyy to many generations. Im actually pissed now that mine has done it because I now realize it is bad seeds. Retarded, oh my fault. Special seeds. Im going to pop another and if I get the same shit im demanding a refund or new seed from a different generation. Ie femaleseeds.nl, breeding garbage.

Kingrow1 · Jul 24, 2016

chronicals77 said:
From what I read Whorled Phylotaxy refers to a natural growth in some plants. Not a mutation. Some oaks grow with 3 or more leaves from one node and thats just the way those species grow. ie Whorled Phylotaxy. Tri-leaf cannabis is not natural but one day be all thats left if so many people dont stop fucking with plants. It IS supposed to be a rare natural occurance when genes of a plant go haywire. The reason people are seeing so many from bred seeds is because people are breeding them to death. It is not a good thing. Its piss poor breeding or waaaaayyy to many generations. Im actually pissed now that mine has done it because I now realize it is bad seeds. Retarded, oh my fault. Special seeds. Im going to pop another and if I get the same shit im demanding a refund or new seed from a different generation. Ie femaleseeds.nl, breeding garbage.

Hate people who blame seeds and breeders, you didnt even know what the word whorlled meant until five seconds ago, now your pay grade is enough to start bashing breeders, quite bold accusations your making!

Triploids

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