The "OFFICIAL" cast your VOTE on PROP 19 thread

[hoMEGROWengurl]

They used notwithstanding to apply to any local laws that might be created to interfere with the minimum limits of prop 19. So a county couldn't say the legal limit was one gram.

Next time you talk to your lawyer ask him if the Kelly decision makes it unconstitutional for the limits of prop 19 to be applied to medical patients.



I wasn't trying to criticize your personal garden. If I came off that way I apologize. I don't really care how big, small, legal, or illegal anyone's garden is. It's all good to me.

awesome and thank you....this has been very helpful...but now my friends i am done

 

[Teeaytchsee]

well done all "yes-ers". cases were stated intelligently and without (much) bias. facts were used to educate not coerce. whether it passes or not even changing a few minds is a victory. lets keep spreading the education and hoping a change will come federally (2012 isnt far off).

you dont need to scare someone or intimidate someone when truth is on your side and its not ignored.

 

[The Ruiner]

...

rly?

perhaps its the legalese language of it thats throwing you off. this quote from an article on http://www.opposingviews.com/i/anger-at-marijuana-smokers-who-oppose-prop-19 says it better than i could:

Kirk Tousaw, writing in Cannabis Culture, examines this phenomenon, but in a much more polite Canadian manner than my own. For the only cannabis consumer who can even consider voting no on Prop 19 has to be one who fears losing rights under Prop 215:

The ‘supersedes’ argument relies mainly on the use of the phrase “nothwithstanding any other provision of law” in certain sections. This is a fairly typical phrase used in law to mean “despite other already-existing laws”. It does not mean “all existing laws on this topic are null and void and this new set of laws totally replaces them."

I went into it at length in a previous post in relation to Prop 19′s new section 11300 which legalizes possession, sharing, transport and cultivation of cannabis for personal consumption. My primary point was that the effect of Prop 19 will come from what Prop 19 does – not the use of “notwithstanding”.​

quote from http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6601631-full-text-of-california-prop-19-which-would-legalize-marijuana taken from the prop itself:

(b)
11304. Effect of Act and Definitions.
(a) This act shall not be construed to affect, limit, or amend any statute that forbids impairment while engaging in dangerous activities such as driving, or that penalizes bringing cannabis to a school enrolling pupils in any grade from kindergarten through 12, inclusive.
(b) Nothing in this act shall be construed or interpreted to permit interstate or international transportation of cannabis. This act shall be construed to permit a person to transport cannabis in a safe and secure manner from a licensed premises in one city or county to a licensed premises in another city or county pursuant to any ordinances adopted in such cities or counties, notwithstanding any other state law or the lack of any such ordinance in the intervening cities or counties.
(c) No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301. Provided, however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.
(d) Definitions. For purposes of this act:
(1) “Marijuana” and “cannabis” are interchangeable terms that mean all parts of the plant Genus Cannabis, whether growing or not; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing same; and every active compound, manufacture, derivative, or preparation of the plant, or resin.
(2) “One ounce” means 28.5 grams.
(3) For purposes of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 11300, “cannabis plant” means all parts of a living cannabis plant.
(4) In determining whether an amount of cannabis is or is not in excess of the amounts permitted by this act, the following shall apply:
(A) Only the active amount of the cannabis in an edible cannabis product shall be included.
(B) Living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight, in determining the amounts set forth in subdivision (a) of Section 11300.
(C) In a criminal proceeding, a person accused of violating a limitation in this act shall have the right to an affirmative defense that the cannabis was reasonably related to his or her personal consumption.
(5) “Residence” means a dwelling or structure, whether permanent or temporary, on private or public property, intended for occupation by a person or persons for residential purposes, and includes that portion of any structure intended for both commercial and residential purposes.
(6) “Local government” means a city, county, or city and county.
(7) “Licensed premises” is any commercial business, facility, building, land, or area that has a license, permit or is otherwise authorized to cultivate, process, transport, sell, or permit on-premises consumption of cannabis pursuant to any ordinance or regulation adopted by a local government pursuant to Section 11301, or any subsequently enacted state statute or regulation.

how bout we stop being lazy and do some research? stop stating hearsay and misinterpretation as fact. the bill is clear in many aspect of what you and others argue against, you simply need to figure out the jargon and legalese.

Again, why are people using articles that dont really mean a damn? Just so you know, hophead, I have read the bill SEVERAL TIMES start to finish. I have read articles regarding 19 ad naseum, and I am left with the same conclusions...19 is bait.

And your lame-ass "legalese" phrasing doesnt even appear in the bill. Read it...maybe not high this time...

 

[The Ruiner]

furthermore what the fuck does a canuck give about CA MJ laws? who the fuck asked him?

 

[Teeaytchsee]

ya know. i was going to stoop to your level, but i don't need to. you can go ahead and hide in your idiot cave, you've got nothing to say that hasn't already been rebutted. attacking me again is pathetic desperation.

 

[The Ruiner]

Well actually, you just pointed something out very useful....

They use "notwithstanding" in the only section that deals with personal cultivation...therefore they are seemingly using 19 to supercede cultivation rights under 215. If they meant to keep 215 intact, there would be this: except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. but its not there....why? They use notwithstanding which if you simply use "despite" would read:

Despite any other provision of law (prop 215) it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to: Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands. except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7

Words in red do not appear in actual bill


Does that make sense to you? What's there, what's not? By the way, nobody here will be interpreting this bill...that is left to the lawmakers, which are all totally honest and trustworthy people. So, stop thinking your interpretation is right, or some jack offs' in a magazine, they don't matter one fucking bit. That is propaganda, like it or not, it is influencing the way you are thinking. The bill is what it is...bait.

 

[Teeaytchsee]

do you just enjoy annoying people? way too tired to keep reiterating the same thing over and over simply because you haven't learned to read.



already answered. all it takes is a click on a link and a quick read.


http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6601631-full-text-of-california-prop-19-which-would-legalize-marijuana
also found at
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Text_of_Proposition_19,_the_%22Regulate,_Control_and_Tax_Cannabis_Act_of_2010%22_%28California%29
and
http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/pdf/english/text-proposed-laws.pdf

i can go on, but to anyone with an iota of intellect 3 legitimate sources are more than enough.

QUOTE:

.
.
.

7. Ensure, if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9 of the Health and Safety Code.

8. Ensure, if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9 of the Health and Safety Code
.
.
.

its called citing sources. take a civil law or a simple writing class...or... google it. you seem to be ignoring Initiative Statute 1377. (09-0024. Amdt. #1S). you think it remains the same as when the courier dropped it off? they (legislators) simply look at it and go "oh ok that wording is perfect lets leave it as is"?

 

[Teeaytchsee]

any other snarky remarks you wanna toss my way, or are you tired of looking like a fool and a jerk yet?

 

[The Ruiner]

dude...wow...you know who you remind me of? The kid from worlds greatest dad.... Do you know what you post? Seriously? Are you that high? I want some of what you are having! Because you have your head in the fucking clouds apparently never to return. I would love to meet someone like you in person, it would be entertaining just watching you in a social setting, how do you get by? Or is this your alter-ego wanna-be bad-ass holier than-thou persona? Regardless of your views of 19, I think you are probably a horrible person in general and you have no tact, or comprehension, making it absolutely impossible to have any sort of discussion. Put the bong down and go for a run, stretch, do something good for your body, because your mind seems to need it.

 

[Hayduke]

If Notwithstanding can be used to trump a local law, from making a lower limit...Wait for it...The why would the same word not apply to a state law which currently is higher...the only way to amend a voter enacted initiative (for all you fer'ners) is by another voter enacted initiative...and of course we know that it is not supposed to affect MMJ (though the SD City council is meeting today to vote on restricting access)...but this is the thing...This will be interpreted, and it won't ever be in our favor...the loose language is dangerous

inaccurate and misleading. though the percentage may be much smaller in CA due to better strains propagated and distributed legally, MJ sold in the USA makes up for up to or more than 60% of cartel business. the other substances mentioned are not from Mexico, but muled through it on its way here.

Where is the (cartel) Meth from???

anyhow this has been a fascinating debate

Yes, fascinating...

that doesn't explain why they puit a one ounce limit. why ONE ounce?

one ounce of schwag?

one ounce of bomb?

an ounce of inidca?

an ounce of sativa?

how about hash?

maybe a dash of honey oil?


just because you don't need an ounce doesn't mean others don't. see: "judgmental" and "butter".

I think I read it does not include "concentrates"

i see flawed reasoning here, too.

you have medical. you can still make your butter after this passes.

so can recreatonal users. store the 4 oz in the 5x5, cook with it when needed.

so simple a caveman can do it (not an insult, just parroting geico)

So now my 5x5 has to make room for a refrigerator...and the heat they produce...

To make it more fun lets do it like this. Lets pretend you don't have a 215 card and you just harvested you 5x5 garden and made 2 pounds of butter. Guess what? As long as you keep it in the same place you grow it, then you're still in compliance with the laws made in prop 19!

So now you are ok with the 5x5 including storage...I bet this helps get rid of even more competition for you!

you've obviously never had to go to the park to buy weed.

those guys sling out of half ounce bags a gram or two at a time to maximize profits

i never saw it as getting ripped off, i saw it as giving a homeless chump lunch...or his next meth fix.

So now this hurts the homeless!

Tell me why you need to have more than an ounce in your backpack for reasons other than medicinal which is exempt in prop 19. Go ahead. Do you need to take your bud out for a walk every day so it doesn't pee on the carpet?

Well as long as you say backpack...it made me think about camping and festivals...and lots of friends (all 21 or over of course).

I think you're on to something here. If I didn't speak english, the entire prop 19 would be unclear. Why isn't prop 19 written in Swahili? Maybe it's some kind of sekret plot by Richard Lee to take over the universe.

Or maybe just the Central Valley...muhahahaha

that's an honest reply. thank you.

i don't think there should be any limit. i can have all the beer i want. they say the limit is to fool those who may otherwise be opposed. well that sounds like trickery to me. i don't support a bill filled with trickery. even if it is to my benefit. it is strictly a moral issue for me. i hope you all can someday understand my side as well.

i get it. you all want to smoke pot. for me it goes beyond that.

Exactly!

i never said you made anything up. i asked you to cite your source. you dont just speak for another person and take credit for their post. show me where you got that... even 1 link will suffice for arguments sake. please learn to listen

Hey I read it too! (no citation)...

yea! the out of weed-out of staters yammered on incessantly (I know you are, but what am I?) till the stoners gave up!!!

I used to smoke a lot of Mexican pot...it got me stoned and in general, I liked it...but I never really understood why the kiddies nowadays refer to it as "stress"...now I know

 

[Teeaytchsee]

hay...you aren't even worth the time...

you really are a special kind of stupid. good growing to you, but i have yet to see anything you have to say being worthwhile in an adult conversation. funny or malicious, this isn't the forum for that. grow up.

TR... pathetic. simply pathetic. your trend of being a fool and a jerk by your own hand continues, well done.

 

[The Ruiner]

Tee...I love you.

 

[The Ruiner]

It's not a trend really, I am just a very hard person to like...

 

[Teeaytchsee]

if you have real concerns please state them and i will do my best to abate that fear. if i cannot i will look for the foundation of the claim and secede to the truths of it. however if you are unwilling to listen to the opposite side of it what do you hope to accomplish by arguing? getting hostile because you don't agree solves nothing.

im an asshole. i know this. my wife knows this. everyone i know, knows this. personality and personal feelings aside lets continue in a civil manner. i have tried very hard to keep myself in check and stay professional and on point. im not asking for the same respect, simply enough to make this a debate rather than an argument over opinions.

 

[Hayduke]

hay...you aren't even worth the time...

you really are a special kind of stupid. good growing to you, but i have yet to see anything you have to say being worthwhile in an adult conversation. funny or malicious, this isn't the forum for that. grow up.

TR... pathetic. simply pathetic. your trend of being a fool and a jerk by your own hand continues, well done.

Yea!!! I win!!!! But you don't matter cuz you can't vote!!! This is for all us crazy leftcoasters!

Hey Fadded...if ya get board...your linear logic is refreshing



edit: timing of post...priceless!

 

[Teeaytchsee]

you obviously missed the post of many of my friends and direct family still living there. not to mention the ripple effect it will have globally. we all have the right to weigh in because it effects us all. if you thinking you win means youll finally keep your nonsense out of here then that's fine by me. you've got the mental capacity of a walnut so seeing you gone would hardly be a shame.

 

[Dan Kone]

So now you are ok with the 5x5 including storage...I bet this helps get rid of even more competition for you!

Show me where it says 5x5 includes storage.

 

[UncleBuck]

they are seemingly using 19 to supercede cultivation rights under 215.

7. Ensure, if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9 of the Health and Safety Code.

8. Ensure, if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9 of the Health and Safety Code.

dude...wow...you know who you remind me of? The kid from worlds greatest dad.... Do you know what you post? Seriously? Are you that high? I want some of what you are having! Because you have your head in the fucking clouds apparently never to return. I would love to meet someone like you in person, it would be entertaining just watching you in a social setting, how do you get by? Or is this your alter-ego wanna-be bad-ass holier than-thou persona? Regardless of your views of 19, I think you are probably a horrible person in general and you have no tact, or comprehension, making it absolutely impossible to have any sort of discussion. Put the bong down and go for a run, stretch, do something good for your body, because your mind seems to need it.

nice rebuttal, ruiner....hahahhaahahahahahahahah

 

[Hayduke]

Show me where it says 5x5 includes storage.

Your the one who said you can have as much MJ as you want as long as you keep it in the grow space (5x5) I thought it was funny that you would have to store your butter (4 oz of fadded bud...from context) in the 5x5...gotta keep up with the walnut brained (registered voter) towel!

 

[The Ruiner]

if you have real concerns please state them and i will do my best to abate that fear. if i cannot i will look for the foundation of the claim and secede to the truths of it. however if you are unwilling to listen to the opposite side of it what do you hope to accomplish by arguing? getting hostile because you don't agree solves nothing.

im an asshole. i know this. my wife knows this. everyone i know, knows this. personality and personal feelings aside lets continue in a civil manner. i have tried very hard to keep myself in check and stay professional and on point. im not asking for the same respect, simply enough to make this a debate rather than an argument over opinions.

Tee - the foundation of most of my complaints stem from the wording of the bill itself. Nothing can be done about that. I thank you for trying, but really I don't think I am going to budge. What it would take are written amendments to prop 19 that cant happen because it's way too late to alter the wording, they can't touch it, and that makes me fear what could come after passage. At this point, I think that this thread has had what is probably the best, most unstructured debate on the subject to date, and both sides of the issue have been fairly represented. I respect that, a lot. This is actual democratic process in action... AMERICA LIVES!!! People are engaging each other again!! HOORAY!!!

I think that for now, our differences will remain, but know this: I want MJ to be legal. 19 will not make a damn bit of difference in what I do (I don't make money growing, I make money working 6 days a week)...my position is only because I feel that I am looking out for MJ growers/smokers... no one asked me to, I am well aware, but that's all it is. I just do not like 19, and I do not want my fellow tokers and growers left in a powerless position to rectify the potential damage 19 could do. I am trying to figure out more about the CCHHI, it does have legs....and it will be much more of a step forward.