The French Cannoli` Hash Thread

[qwizoking]

I'm confused what you don't get? Decarbing is only useful in edibles, your lighter decarbs the thc instantly when smoking. So what's the point in decarbing if its not for an edible..as I said in my previous post it does have advantages of extending the shelf life but I don't see how its productive... and no I haven't ever pressed trichs in my hand or otherwise ( but I do understand how that positively effects the hash)

I did also say earlier that we haven't studied all the constituents of cannabis enough to know how effects and flavors may be altered by degredation.. though most likely lesser in psychoactivity and effect flavors could potentially still change

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Decarboxylation

Some decarboxylization will take place during curing as well. This happens when the carboxyl group (COOH) located at C-2, C-4, or the end of the hydrocarbon chain at C-3 is destroyed leaving a hydrogen attached and liberating CO2.

Decarboxylization is necessary to convert cannabinoids to usable psychoactive forms; the plants (and your body) carboxylize cannabinoids to make them more soluble in water (for metabolic reactions and excretion).

Research indicates that this effect is fairly minimal during the curing process though. Decarboxylization will take place naturally very rapidly at temperatures of over 100C. So smoking and most any cooking will decarboxylize the cannabinoids. As decarboxylization occurs, the loss of CO2 will liberate a small amount of inert material making the pot more potent via concentration of the cannabinoids.

 

[bongaload]

Aloha from Hawaii Frenchy thanks one more time for posting my video. I have been working and trying to refine my technique always trying to make it better. Glad to see others with the same passion. I will be scouring all previous post for all knowledge. Looking forward to conversing with you. Aloha and much love brother

 

[qwizoking]

Right....so as it says, smoking it decarbs it. .fully and completely on contact while destroying a large portion. Which is why vaping is popular

Decarbing is only necessary for oral consumption without baking or anything

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

So yes you do a decarb when you light up and smoke FLOWERS with a lighter not an extract on a nail but there is way to burn/vaporize hashish that would do the trick I guess.
I am also into extended shelf life and aging since some of the best hashish and Charas I smoked were up to 8 years old.
A main reason why I am interested to know how much the corrosive power of a resin mass can "clean" the vegetal matter left in it.
I also believe that pressing the trichomes into a mass bounds the cannabinoids (that are an altered terpenoids themselves) to terpenes, since they are "family" it makes sense that they would "stick together"?

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

An interesting thought that's show again how much knowledge there is in traditions

I always thought that drying that way was pure butchery and most of you must have had the same thought.
If you look at it keeping in mind the process of decarboxylation, the story takes another turn.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

By the way, when you open an album in Rollitup it will be impossible to see the upload pictures button, if you pass your pointer over the blue-ish line you will see it, from there it's easy and you can keep a load of pics

 

[qwizoking]

For that extract on the nail to be heated enough to vaporize that means its reached its boiling point, decarboxylation happens instantly at that point. The remaining hash on the nail may still have some remaining thca which will be decarbed as its vaporized on the next hit.....

I still don't understand its not a strong acid(in fact acidity damages thc as well) but it does oxidize. Im not sure where your going with that tough, I'm trying to help...metabolic processes and chemical reactions do occur constantly. That's how cbn is formed, many think it is a direct byproduct of thc but that time study proved this was not the case. Cbns were rising at a steady rate despite environmental variability and wasn't correlated to thc degredation, meaning they couldn't accurately calculate starting thc from cbn, though some does come from that route..other cannabinoids and terpines go threw this process we haven't studied all of them and their degraded compounds. But it alters effect and flavor...

they stick together but not in the way your thinking. We use techniques like vacuum distillation, and look at the varying boiling points to extract a pure compound. When under vacuum the boiling temp progressively drops until its not so damaging to thc. There are lots of better and more technical ways but yea...so no these compounds can still be thought of as a big liquid they are still volatile and unique just dissolved..but the outer layer acts like a protective sheath stopping light and help protecting it

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Decarb happen instantly????

 

[qwizoking]

Yea

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier,they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shortenthe amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat. The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized...from skunkpharm on decarbing

 

[Baywatcher]

Here's another idea I had on the oxidation issue. One of the arguments I've seen *against* pressing is that the pressing ruptures the trichomes, exposing their contents to the air. But if you look at that microscope picture I posted of the pressed hash a few pages back, there were still a *bunch* of intact trichomes in it. They were just compacted together.

I'm guessing that this would also explain why Frenchy's bottle-pressing method produces better quality than a hydraulic press -- a big mechanical press probably *can* easily exert enough force to rupture the trichomes, exposing them to oxidation, while my fat ass rolling a hot bottle on it can only compress it to the level you see in the pic.

Just a thought as I sit here and smoke some of it

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Yea

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier,they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shortenthe amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat. The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized.

It happens "WITHIN REASONABLE RANGES", and in that specific article they are talking of burning or vaping flowers, not extracts on nail.

 

[Baywatcher]

Decarb happen instantly????

Based on your earlier description of it, I would think so - burning it is pretty destructive, maybe happening as a precursor to the phase change from solid to vapor?

Some decarboxylization will take place during curing as well. This happens when the carboxyl group (COOH) located at C-2, C-4, or the end of the hydrocarbon chain at C-3 is destroyed leaving a hydrogen attached and liberating CO2.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

All this is helping me make sense of "what is behind" the different flavors of the Pinot Noir, the flower nose change from fresh to cure drastically with another nose in between when it is just dry.
The hashish made with the cured flowers give a chocolate taste with a fruity undertone. The fresh one is grape and aromatic flowers, totally at opposite side of the spectrum. This week I will be working on dry trims to see if I can also get the other flavors.
CA will be better at making sense of the technical part, this knowledge and good lab test on it will be very informative

 

[qwizoking]

While pressing does rupture heads like my solvent wash. Both the pressed hash and my shatter are protected from light and oxygen ..as should be seen from cutting open a ball of stored hash. It will still degrade at the same rate and all volatile properties remain but due to their properties only the outer layer is effected..in solution my oil is very sensitive however.....also I believe skunkpharm only deals with concentrates

Water evapoartes at 212 for the thc to have been vaporized and smoke produced it has to far exceed that number and in fact a lighter does many times over. Its decarbed before it ever even leaves the ball of hash, has soon as that flame touches it.. but again the remaining oil not smoked will still have some thca though not much as a lighter is so hot

 

[qwizoking]

I'm not sure what exactly yalls product looks/acts/tastes like. If the resin heads are ruptured or not. But there are arguments in my mind for pressing. Decarbing is what I'm having issues with I don't see how it would be productive

I'm my mind your essentially doing what would happen over time naturally in a quick process. I believe many terpenes will be lost and some cannabinoids degraded, noted visually by the color change. I think pressing without heat should compress it enough to break heads without heating as much to lose flavor and potency, but you might have to increase pressure increasing heat so u don't know if that would work

 

[qwizoking]

Again its important to understand thc is a terpene and like the other terpenes they have similar properties. Anything that effects potency effects flavor. But as terpenes get altered and shange structure they form new terpenes with different flavors and effects are they necessarily bad, no but in general not as potent

I thought I was giving gold here but nobody brought it up I'm gonna say it again cause I think its cool cbda in fresh material before its decarbed to cbd can be turned into thc instead with uv-c light. Altering the high, can be implemented in solution or even right before harvest


I think I will try your method next time and do a small amount smoking shatter can be a real pain and I think it would be much smoother an easier to smoke.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

While pressing does rupture heads like my solvent wash. Both the pressed hash and my shatter are protected from light and oxygen ..as should be seen from cutting open a ball of stored hash. It will still degrade at the same rate and all volatile properties remain but due to their properties only the outer layer is effected..in solution my oil is very sensitive however.....also I believe skunkpharm only deals with concentrates

Water evapoartes at 212 for the thc to have been vaporized and smoke produced it has to far exceed that number and in fact a lighter does many times over. Its decarbed before it ever even leaves the ball of hash, has soon as that flame touches it.. but again the remaining oil not smoked will still have some thca though not much as a lighter is so hot

Can we NOT mixed up Hashish with solvent products.
Let's agree on a definition should we?
Psychoactive drug made from sieving the resin glands of the dried Cannabis flowers and from pressing them with a source of heat

 

[qwizoking]

Well....no. there's not really that much of a difference both are the collection of broken resin heads in a solid form. The pressing and heating only serves to rupture heads and decarboxylate. So essentially the only difference between my product and yours is mine isn't decarbed...I could do that but I didn't understand why you did?

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

This is what I do:
Timewreck TGA

Pinot Noir Pressed on a bed of its trichomes (made from cured trims)

Dream Queen beginning of cure

You also could take the time and visit my albums and find plenty of my work as well as hashish from around the world.
That is what I mean by minimum respect, take the time to see what I do before going on. Showing yours is very simple as I mentioned earlier and would be appreciated by all