the 2020 democratic candidate (and VP)

ttystikk said:

He isn't deficient and he isn't stupid. He feels like his family is in the top ten percent of income and wealth, so he's fine with what the democratic party is doing on his behalf.

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UncleBuck said:

purity tests are stupid.

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UncleBuck said:

for example, we could not run someone like you for anything because we'd be constantly having to defend and explain your creepy porn fetishes and giving porn to minors.

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Fogdog said:

To a republican, an establishment democdrat is a progressive. Also compared to the next four years, Obama's progressive presidency will seem like a golden age of liberal progress. Since I've been here, you have always talked as though Trump were already in charge. Just saying, incremental change is better than none.

Sanders is organizing some rallies this weekend. Are you going to show up, Ty? The closest one to you is in New Mexico. Why isn't CO having a "save our healthcare" rally?

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ttystikk said:

Good questions. No I'm not going to New Mexico this weekend. I don't know why they aren't having such a rally here, especially considering the health care plan on the ballot last election.

You are inspiring me to get in touch with the local democrats, and see how to get more involved.

I AM a progressive and I see the next 4 years as creating more support for my views than ever.

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Padawanbater2 said:

That's ironic, considering him and bearkat accused Sanders supporters of the exact same thing when criticizing their reason to support Sanders and not Clinton during the primary..

"You just support him because you're white, and Trump's regime won't harm you like POC or LGBTs! You don't have as much to lose as me!"

Why?

Right, my "creepy porn fetishes".. which amount to a subreddit that's been inactive for more than 2 years, which is 100% consentual as well as voluntary. Buddy, I have news for you incase you haven't picked it up yet.. if you could view my private porn stash, your sensitive flowered ass would probably consider me Hitler. Are you picking up how many fucks I've laid down, yet?

Try to embarrass or shame me all you want with the things I find sexually appealing, you will never reach that goal because I am unmotherfucking shamable. Everything I enjoy is completely legal. So go ahead and keep proving my and tty's point that you're obviously more moderate than you accept or believe you are. Actual liberals/progressives couldn't care less what is in your porn cabinet as long as it's legal and consentual.

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UncleBuck said:

just saying that "duct tape them by the butthole" is arguably worse than "grab 'em by the pussy".

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Padawanbater2 said:

TPP/trade, universal healthcare, universal college, the private prison industry, the war on drugs, waging aggressive war, climate change/fossil fuel industry..

It's not "progressive" to support a trade policy that screws over the middle-class, just like NAFTA did, in favor of big business. It's not progressive to condemn universal healthcare or college as unrealistic. "Super predators". Voted for Iraq, Libya and supports more aggression in Syria.. Supports the natural gas industry.. etc.

You pretend you're a progressive. Those of us who are actual progressives can see right through it

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1. happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
   "a progressive decline in popularity"
   synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More.
2. (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   "a relatively progressive governor"

1. a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   synonyms: innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal, libertarian
   "he is very much a progressive".

Fogdog said:

pro·gres·sive
prəˈɡresiv/
adjective

1. happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
   "a progressive decline in popularity"
   synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More.
2. (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   "a relatively progressive governor"

noun

1. a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   synonyms: innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal, libertarian
   "he is very much a progressive".

I don't know what your definition of progressive is. The root of the word is "progress" and the definition uses descriptive terms like developing gradually and in stages. It's not radical change. A person advocating radical change would be called a radical. Obama didn't enact radical change. Under his administration he made progress on all the issues you listed compared to where the country was when he took over. I'd say Obama is a progressive Clinton maybe less so but I think we would have made progress with her in charge too. And Sanders is one too. And Buck advocates progress too. I get that the progress made over the last 8 years wasn't enough but it was at least incremental progress in every category you listed. Incremental progress is still progress.

I'd have liked to see more but was satisfied by what Obama managed given the dross he dealt with in Congress.

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ttystikk said:

Incremental change to the left, followed by radical change to the right is a pretty good description of what this country's politics has looked like for the last half century.

The end result is that we AREN'T making 'progress', except towards more inequality, fewer rights and more wars.

By your definition, I guess I'm a radical, because I no longer believe that incremental progress is sufficient in the face of radical conservatism.

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Fogdog said:

You can't lay the retrograde orbit Trump is putting us in at Obama's feet. Well you can but you'd be wrong.

I think you might fit "radical" better than progressive. Not that this is bad, it's just a better fit. Personally, I don't think we understand the problems well enough to enact radical change in most areas including climate change. I'll take progress. Just my thing, not yours I guess. I'd prefer more rapid - but sure - progress. As witnessed by the past election, not everybody agrees. That said, a majority voted for incremental progress but their numbers weren't distributed in enough states.

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Fogdog said:

pro·gres·sive
prəˈɡresiv/
adjective

1. happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
   "a progressive decline in popularity"
   synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More.
2. (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   "a relatively progressive governor"

noun

1. a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   synonyms: innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal, libertarian
   "he is very much a progressive".

I don't know what your definition of progressive is. The root of the word is "progress" and the definition uses descriptive terms like developing gradually, in stages, innovator and reformer. Not radical change. A person advocating radical change would be called a radical. Obama didn't enact radical change. Under his administration he made progress on all the issues you listed compared to where the country was when he took over. I'd say Obama is a progressive. Clinton maybe less so but I think we would have made progress with her in charge too. And Sanders is one too. And Buck advocates progress too. I get that the progress made over the last 8 years wasn't enough by your lights but the country made incremental progress in every category you listed. Incremental progress is still progress.

I'd have liked to see more but was satisfied by what Obama managed given the dross he dealt with in Congress.

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ttystikk said:

it's time to stop being incremental in the face of the radical right

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Padawanbater2 said:

Exactly right!

It's time to facefuck the opposition into erradication.

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ttystikk said:

I think creating a radical left movement could be the necessary catalyst.

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Padawanbater2 said:

I agree. I am interested if you have any thoughts on how to do this? I completely support this. There has to be strong opposition to Trump's right wing administration to ensure checks and balances

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ttystikk said:

His Chumpness will give us the best chance of our lifetime. We must not squander it or allow it to be diluted into mediocrity by the establishment 'left'.

I think creating a radical left movement could be the necessary catalyst.

It worked for the Tea Party crowd...

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ttystikk said:

Establish a platform and then use tactics of the radical right to advance it

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Fogdog said:

I don't think the Democratic party will ever be radical enough for you.

I've been thinking along the same lines lately. You aren't alone in what you are saying. Here's a link that says the same:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-trump-protests-tea-party-231450
Trump protesters plan to build ‘tea party of the left’

Among the groups eyeing a stepped-up role in primaries are 350.org’s political action wing and National Nurses United, which backs Rep. Keith Ellison’s bid for chairman of the Democratic National Committee and is convening its board this week in Washington, where its members will participate in a Thursday afternoon rally with Sanders on the Capitol grounds. “Time for faux progressives to get out of the way,” said the union’s executive director, RoseAnn DeMoro. “Change is the only thing that will save that party.”

I really like the idea of including unions in the effort. But then again, unions might be too statist for you.

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Padawanbater2 said:

I think I know what kind of platform you would support, but what kind of tactics from the radical right would you use to advance it?

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Padawanbater2 said:

Well, I can agree with most of this, but I just don't think it was enough, especially when Obama and the Democrats held government for 2 years when he was elected. No public option, no end of the war on marijuana, etc.. The reason the Tea Party Republicans took over during the midterms was because the Democrats didn't go far enough. They didn't give the middle-class what they wanted. Z

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ttystikk said:

I love unions, where did you get the idea I wouldn't?

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