Spin-Out for Chemical Root Pruning

I find this all interesting.... and my only 2 cents is... Maybe the precaution against fruit bearing plants isn't for the plants or for most people it's for that small percentage of people who are allergic to copper? Maybe...

But who cares, this thread seems to show that Uncle Ben has used this and does use this and it works for him, and it hasn't killed him, sounds good to me.

Thanks for Sharing Uncle Ben!!!!

GidgetGrows said:

I find this all interesting.... and my only 2 cents is... Maybe the precaution against fruit bearing plants isn't for the plants or for most people it's for that small percentage of people who are allergic to copper? Maybe...

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How can you be allergic to something that doesn't exist? Most who are ignorant of the use of copper hydroxide are dealing with theories and "personal views", feelings, and not the reality of this product. Again, the copper ions are not located near the plant's root tissue responsible for the uptake of water and salts.

Product labeling, now there is a real can of worms. You would have to understand the labeling requirement laws, the political pressure by the environmental wackos and their attorneys, the litigious nature of our society and much more to understand why some active ingredients, at the same %, are labeled for different applications and different prices. I have played the game with herbicides and insecticides - different label, same ingredient, lower cost. It is complicated process and certain producers are not willing to put themselves in harm's way regarding the incoherent Green movement's farce and their idealogically driven games. You may be like many assuming that copper ions are translocated into the plant as I sit here and try to explain otherwise, not that I'm obligated to give anyone an explanation. Many are quick to shoot off their mouth and too lazy to do the research. Nothing I say or do will convince folks otherwise nor do I care what others think as they will not be able to get the product, or they are too cheap to buy it. They just go on with their feelings and theories and have at 4 different cannabis forums where I have posted. Like stoners' affinity to snake oils, it's just the way the cannabis biz is.

But who cares, this thread seems to show that Uncle Ben has used this and does use this and it works for him, and it hasn't killed him, sounds good to me.

Thanks for Sharing Uncle Ben!!!!

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You're welcome. I've been using it for years and my blood chemistry is still coming up clean.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Nothing I say or do will convince folks otherwise nor do I care what others think as they will not be able to get the product, or they are too cheap to buy it. UB

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Hi UB, I'm no horticulturalist but I can see the point of using the spray. If the roots are burned off before they hit the spray, as your pics have indicated, they couldn't possibly absorb any.

My question is how do we get? Where from? And if the average consumer can't get it what would be your recommendations for alternates?

I have looked online for it and, at best, just found more testimonials of nurseries using it (funny, they all talk like they just found something new). Thanks, MH

Mr. Homegrown said:

Hi UB, I'm no horticulturalist but I can see the point of using the spray. If the roots are burned off before they hit the spray, as your pics have indicated, they couldn't possibly absorb any.

My question is how do we get? Where from? And if the average consumer can't get it what would be your recommendations for alternates?

I have looked online for it and, at best, just found more testimonials of nurseries using it (funny, they all talk like they just found something new). Thanks, MH

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The root tips are burned, terminated when they hit the sides and bottom of the pot. The rest of the roots' epidermal tissue is no where near where the copper ions are located, reason why it can't be absorbed. You'll have to search for the product, and more than likely when you find it, it will very expensive as it's sold in bulk for commercial growers.

Found it, here's all the info and sources for it:

http://www.sepro.com/default.php?page=spinout

"How SpinOut Works: As the root tips hit the container wall, they begin to grow around the inside of the pot, forming a circled and matted root system. Poor root architecture leads to poor plant quality.

As its roots come into contact with SpinOut-treated container, they become inhibited, not damaged. Because elongation stops, that growth energy stimulates the development of secondary and lateral roots promoting a fibrous and healthy root system.......

......Research shows that SpinOut improves the plants ability to uptake nutrients. SpinOut plants develop a more fibrous root system, which is able to take up more nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium resulting in a healthier plant. With SpinOut, root pruning or trimming is not necessary. As a result, transplant shock is significantly reduced."

Uncle Ben said:

The root tips are burned, terminated when they hit the sides and bottom of the pot. The rest of the roots' epidermal tissue is no where near where the copper ions are located, reason why it can't be absorbed. You'll have to search for the product, and more than likely when you find it, it will very expensive as it's sold in bulk for commercial growers.

Here's all the info and sources for it:

http://www.sepro.com/default.php?page=spinout

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Great thanks. So do you have to treat the pots every grow? Buying in bulk would make sense then.

So how do you think air pruning would compare?

Mr. Homegrown said:

Great thanks. So do you have to treat the pots every grow? Buying in bulk would make sense then.

So how do you think air pruning would compare?

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I spray about 3 light coats on the pots and they're good for a couple of uses.

Air pruning will work fine unless your ambient RH is high. Never seen roots growing out of drainholes at a nursery, hanging down 6" or so? It's all about the money, everyone is gonna push their product as "the best solution".

From Wikipedia:

"Symptoms of copper poisoning are very similar to those produced by arsenic. Fatal cases are generally terminated by convulsions, palsy, and insensibility.[citation needed]. The DRI Tolerable Upper Intake Level for adults of dietary copper from all sources is 10 mg/day[citation needed]. In toxicity, copper can inhibit the enzyme dihydrophil hydratase, an enzyme involved in haemopoiesis and homeostasis."

From what I've read about UB, he sure seems pretty healthy to me. Any convulsions he suffers is more than likely from coughing his ass off on some really good bud.

Got to admit, wife calls me insensitive all the time. "Honey, you just don't understand me!"

I can't get the email to work to contact them through that link. I can't find it in my neck of the woods.

I have severe spinout in all my 1 gallon pots and 5gl pots. The roots are all collecting on the edge of the soil, and the middle soil is hardly getting used at all...my 5gall rootball is as big as your 1 gall rootball, UB. Small for a 5 gl pot...
I've just started scoaring the roots when I up-pot to 5 gallon pots hoping it will help.

seasmoke said:

I can't get the email to work to contact them through that link. I can't find it in my neck of the woods.

I have severe spinout in all my 1 gallon pots and 5gl pots. The roots are all collecting on the edge of the soil, and the middle soil is hardly getting used at all...my 5gall rootball is as big as your 1 gall rootball, UB. Small for a 5 gl pot...
I've just started scoaring the roots when I up-pot to 5 gallon pots hoping it will help.

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Here you go:

http://horticulturespecialties.com/index.php?cPath=30

They even have growbags coated with it.

Thanx Dave, + rep. Looks like they sell coated items. i'll see if they have the "paint", otherwise bags it is.

seasmoke said:

Thanx Dave, + rep. Looks like they sell coated items. i'll see if they have the "paint", otherwise bags it is.

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If you get the bags, let me know how well they do. Im trying out a brand of fabric bags atm, but too soon to tell if theyre worth it.

DaveCoulier said:

If you get the bags, let me know how well they do. Im trying out a brand of fabric bags atm, but too soon to tell if theyre worth it.

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Sure will. I emailed the company about bags and paint. I am buying some...something...i'll give you the rundown. Same thing though, it'll be a while before I know anything. Hey man,thanks for all the help in all the forums. Youve helped more than hurt.

seasmoke said:

Sure will. I emailed the company about bags and paint. I am buying some...something...i'll give you the rundown. Same thing though, it'll be a while before I know anything. Hey man,thanks for all the help in all the forums. Youve helped more than hurt.

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Well, I do try to help heh. Let me know what the costs are on the bags you get. Im interested in the 1 gallon and 3 gallon pricing if you buy them.

they emailed back and have paint, which would work better for me...
The prices are:
30 one gallon treated pots for $36.49
25 three gallon pots for $46.25

seasmoke said:

they emailed back and have paint, which would work better for me...
The prices are:
30 one gallon treated pots for $36.49
25 three gallon pots for $46.25

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If you use the 1 gallon treated pots and do not leave yourself enough time from the time you upcan out of the treated into new soil before flowering, you will find that upcanning to a 3 or 5 gallon pot will be rather useless regarding new root exploration. My experience has been that once you pop that plant out of the 1 gallon treated pot, it takes a while for the roots to explore fresh soil found in the new pot. Keep in mind this stuff is designed for perennials, not annuals. In a nursery a perennial can be around for months and perhaps years before being sold. Perhaps if when upcanning you gently scrape off a bit of the outside rootball soil, it will help negate the effect of any copper ions that might still be around.

Just a heads up......

Just a heads up...

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And a good one. I'll keep that in mind...I took down 3 Sativa Spirit plants and was VERY dissapointed with the root structure. They were smaller that what i'm getting out of one gal. pots....and that was after 9 weeks.

I've really got to get a handle on growing a great root structure. Not all are bad, but they all hit the pot walls and do not use much of the soil in between.

Per the use of the MicroKote or SpinOut coated containers and its safety for the smoke. Its all Good. Back to my chemistry learnings. The copper that's doing the root prunning for these products will not move thru the plants and is bound in the first few cm of the root tips. I verified this in some research I found on the spinout product. Its All to do with solubility of the cu. Copper is an organic approved fungicide so I feel its safe for my sperm count.. The word chemical root prunning just seemed stronge so I had to check it out. I tried both products and the microKote plants had better color and vigor probably because of the micros. Both products grew plants and roots tons better than my untreated ones. I'm sold. I here going back to my babies and starting to develop a heavy root mass at that point even helps get to the finish line faster.. I will let you know... yea ha