Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[outliergenetix]

i've used cold compost in my grown a bunch of times with no issues. i personally don't really see what the big deal is. as hillbill said, you can use your compost to start a worm bin and they will further process it and take care of any issues that may be there... but if nothing has been growing in the pile I wouldn't really worry about pests. plant pests live on plants outdoors... that's how they make their living. Decomposers will reside in your compost pile.

yea i do see both sides. it's hard because if i'm worng or unlucky i gotta re-live that nightmare lol. maybe i'll bring some on the patio or predatory mites and worms and let them process it indorrs for the summer then in the winter try it in a closet grow apart from everything especially stuff in veg. or maybe i'll just use that outdoors for vegies idk. my soil mix is dialed in good now but i just needed a lil xtra organic material as i recycle and re-ammend it, but i havent added castings or compost in a while just down to earth single ingredient stuff between grows and some top dressing
thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[hillbill]

Worm farms are really awesome. Couple months ago I had centipedes and more than a few. I applied diatomaceous earth and reduced that to an occasional sighting of a sick centipede and whiteish curled up exoskeletons. The worms multiplied right thru that.

Something I have used in every batch or reammending mix is Cotton Burr Compost from Back To Nature. Adds structure and moisture holding properties and has some nutes as well. Tried other brands, forget it.

 

[ShLUbY]

yea i do see both sides. it's hard because if i'm worng or unlucky i gotta re-live that nightmare lol. maybe i'll bring some on the patio or predatory mites and worms and let them process it indorrs for the summer then in the winter try it in a closet grow apart from everything especially stuff in veg. or maybe i'll just use that outdoors for vegies idk. my soil mix is dialed in good now but i just needed a lil xtra organic material as i recycle and re-ammend it, but i havent added castings or compost in a while just down to earth single ingredient stuff between grows and some top dressing
thanks for sharing your experience.

yeah i mean really there's no need to add extra OM at recycle. the roots are OM, so are the amendments, the biology, the topdressings, the mulches... lots of OM inputs. Unless of course you need to inoculate some MO. But you can always do compost extract or brew AACT.

 

[outliergenetix]

yeah i mean really there's no need to add extra OM at recycle. the roots are OM, so are the amendments, the biology, the topdressings, the mulches... lots of OM inputs. Unless of course you need to inoculate some MO. But you can always do compost extract or brew AACT.

yea but i use coco instead of moss in my cooots style mix. so i add organic matter like a little compost and a castings to it as well as the ammendments and grokashi etc.. you still think i wouldnt need to add organic matter? i kinda feel like adding it is a buffer for micro nutes i may be missing or depleted
btw i dont add much of the compost or castings really as i dont use any aeration like perlite. i decided to try and find the perfect balance of drainage and retention using the perfect amount of coca and going light on other organic mater and ammending as stated

 

[ShLUbY]

yea but i use coco instead of moss in my cooots style mix. so i add organic matter like a little compost and a castings to it as well as the ammendments and grokashi etc.. you still think i wouldnt need to add organic matter? i kinda feel like adding it is a buffer for micro nutes i may be missing or depleted
btw i dont add much of the compost or castings really as i dont use any aeration like perlite. i decided to try and find the perfect balance of drainage and retention using the perfect amount of coca and going light on other organic mater and ammending as stated

ok right on, you have a different style of organic soil for sure. using any worms in your mixes? if you're using rock dusts your micro nutes are pretty well covered. are you leaving your roots in the soil when you recycle it? Do you add back canna leaves as a mulch or dry, grind to powder, and use as an amendment? returning cannabis plant matter back to the soil IMO is one of the best ways to cycle nutrients because the plant pulled them from the mix... so adding them back can only be beneficial

 

[Resin_pheasant]

This is one of my current mixes I'm using. I still have some other mixes going as well with more ingredients but I truly believe that this is a great start for everyone that is very reasonably priced. I used to amend commerical soils until I got enlighten.

Soil Base - Per Cubic Foot

33% Priemier Peat (brand name) I buy this for 9.99 at lowes 3cfu
33% Pumice/Perlite/Lava rock (I'm using perlite cause I have much on hand)
33% Combination of Compost and vermicompost.

Note: Always use quality amendments and compost in your soil. Just like anything, you get what you put into it, or just like quality good food, fresh ingredients makes for a better end product. If you don't make your own compost or casting try to source some local. If you need a commercial product there are brands like Bu's Compost and a few other quality ones.

Plants are top-dressed with 2" of vermicompost

Amendment Mix

1/2 cup Organic Neem or Karanja Meal
1/2 cup Organic Kelp Meal

Rock Dust Mix

4 cups Basalt & Glacial Rock Dust Mix

Lime Mix

1/2 cup Gypsum
1/2 cup Crab Meal

For the amendment mixes you give the measurement but for what unit. Cup per gallon? Or cups per what? Please lmk. Thank you.

 

[ShLUbY]

For the amendment mixes you give the measurement but for what unit. Cup per gallon? Or cups per what? Please lmk. Thank you.

probably per cubic foot (7.5gal of base mix).

 

[Dryxi]

yea i do see both sides. it's hard because if i'm worng or unlucky i gotta re-live that nightmare lol. maybe i'll bring some on the patio or predatory mites and worms and let them process it indorrs for the summer then in the winter try it in a closet grow apart from everything especially stuff in veg. or maybe i'll just use that outdoors for vegies idk. my soil mix is dialed in good now but i just needed a lil xtra organic material as i recycle and re-ammend it, but i havent added castings or compost in a while just down to earth single ingredient stuff between grows and some top dressing
thanks for sharing your experience.

I have encountered spider mites twice in my grow journal on this site, once was out of control due to vacay, but both times (one big and one little) infestation were taken care of with predator mites. The big infestation killed the plants but I reused the same bed and soil, without cleaning the tent AT ALL, and had 0 issues on the following grow 15 days later. The grow I'm in currently got spidermites on the cover crop once spring started, literally days after I flipped to flower, and I used preds again (from Arbico) which are completely controlling the spider mites.

Introducing them either way, will be a big preventative later in the grow.

 

[outliergenetix]

ok right on, you have a different style of organic soil for sure. using any worms in your mixes? if you're using rock dusts your micro nutes are pretty well covered. are you leaving your roots in the soil when you recycle it? Do you add back canna leaves as a mulch or dry, grind to powder, and use as an amendment? returning cannabis plant matter back to the soil IMO is one of the best ways to cycle nutrients because the plant pulled them from the mix... so adding them back can only be beneficial

rock dust is actually not as good as ppl think. i watch allot of big ag and even small organic farmers non cannabis test various ammendments and rock dust did nothing. it is very very very slow release like years. i use azomite and langbenite tho.
i dont have worms in pots atm but i will once i start using soil from the bin as i am not after just castings. i also want to blatticompost with ivory head roaches for frass but im getting ahead of myself lol

 

[outliergenetix]

I have encountered spider mites twice in my grow journal on this site, once was out of control due to vacay, but both times (one big and one little) infestation were taken care of with predator mites. The big infestation killed the plants but I reused the same bed and soil, without cleaning the tent AT ALL, and had 0 issues on the following grow 15 days later. The grow I'm in currently got spidermites on the cover crop once spring started, literally days after I flipped to flower, and I used preds again (from Arbico) which are completely controlling the spider mites.

Introducing them either way, will be a big preventative later in the grow.

what you say is likely the case, but in my case i had mites for several runs till i realized it. if i didnt say already i thought i had mites from the speckles on the leaves but i was also transitioning from hydro to soil and thought i had lock out or deficiency even tho all signs pointed to mites. reason is i looked on back of leaves saw the brown specs and i would touch em and they didnt move so i said maybe its dirt splatter and just kept trying to adjust feeding. long story short one morning i went down there and my entire canopy was covered in webs and i could see em crawling everywhere i was shocked. i had to kill everythign syeralize the basement and i have been using closets for 6months upstairs hoping anything i missed died off or moved on. atm i have my first flowering batch in that room, so far sao good week 5. but i still keep veg plants up stairs i dont bring anything down there back upstairs near my veg/moms and clones. i only put stuff down there after i clone now till i feel comfortable they are gone for good
i probably will add predators to my ipm tho

 

[outliergenetix]

Worm farms are really awesome. Couple months ago I had centipedes and more than a few. I applied diatomaceous earth and reduced that to an occasional sighting of a sick centipede and whiteish curled up exoskeletons. The worms multiplied right thru that.

Something I have used in every batch or reammending mix is Cotton Burr Compost from Back To Nature. Adds structure and moisture holding properties and has some nutes as well. Tried other brands, forget it.

interesting i never heard of cotton burr. thanks ill look into it

 

[outliergenetix]

yeah i mean really there's no need to add extra OM at recycle. the roots are OM, so are the amendments, the biology, the topdressings, the mulches... lots of OM inputs. Unless of course you need to inoculate some MO. But you can always do compost extract or brew AACT.

yes i process my root balls right into the next run uncomposted as there is soluble plant avain N on nodules on roots the plant hasnt used and other plants can use it. idk where i learned that but it was not a cannabis site. i foget what the nodules are called but there is allot of immediatly avail nutes the dead plant didnt use on roots
i believe i learned this from a no till book. it is why they cut down the plant not uproot it. the only thing is dont do this if the plant had root problems

 

[ShLUbY]

yes i process my root balls right into the next run uncomposted as there is soluble plant avain N on nodules on roots the plant hasnt used and other plants can use it. idk where i learned that but it was not a cannabis site. i foget what the nodules are called but there is allot of immediatly avail nutes the dead plant didnt use on roots
i believe i learned this from a no till book. it is why they cut down the plant not uproot it. the only thing is dont do this if the plant had root problems

not sure if that process happens in the cannabis plant roots... in the N fixing plants like legumes and clovers that associate with rhizobia bacteria, yes. that is the nodule forming process. but the cannabis roots are good to recycle in the mix as they already contain nutrients, growth hormones, and lots of other goodies like proteins and carbohydrates. cheers

 

[hillbill]

not sure if that process happens in the cannabis plant roots... in the N fixing plants like legumes and clovers that associate with rhizobia bacteria, yes. that is the nodule forming process. but the cannabis roots are good to recycle in the mix as they already contain nutrients, growth hormones, and lots of other goodies like proteins and carbohydrates. cheers

Always surprised how fast root remains “disappear” in my used mix tote. Sifted usedmix starts my seeds and used mix is 40% to 70% of “new” mix, depending on my supply as I use it fo herbs and ornamentals also. More roots and plant waste goes to worm bin. Worms take a little longer on stems.

 

[outliergenetix]

not sure if that process happens in the cannabis plant roots... in the N fixing plants like legumes and clovers that associate with rhizobia bacteria, yes. that is the nodule forming process. but the cannabis roots are good to recycle in the mix as they already contain nutrients, growth hormones, and lots of other goodies like proteins and carbohydrates. cheers

huh, i never considered it was plant specific, this is why i like forums always get info to look into. thanks. i'll have to look into that myself now, but as you said it is a benefit either way, i just thought there was some immediate N from the nodules things
update, yup you are right. it is trees shrubs, some cover crops and legumes. i musta misread or misremembered it. it seems i was right about no-till being where i got it as it was prolly talking about cover crops.

 

[ShLUbY]

Always surprised how fast root remains “disappear” in my used mix tote. Sifted usedmix starts my seeds and used mix is 40% to 70% of “new” mix, depending on my supply as I use it fo herbs and ornamentals also. More roots and plant waste goes to worm bin. Worms take a little longer on stems.

I often find balls of aggregated root material in my recycling composter that I use to mix my soils. They're bound together with that nice microbial glue we all rely on so much. by 4 weeks time, they are a ball of black organic matter that crumbles easily when handled. so cool!

 

[Groat21]

So I’m looking to start my organic no-till bed in a 3x3 foot tent.

I’m going to be using this container
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07QGSCCQC/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_3p_dp_i1
It should hold between 60-75 gallons of soil, but I am wondering how much aeration I will need? I’ve read as high as 33%, and as low as 10-20%.

Also, is there a better alternative to perlite?

I’m in Canada if that makes a difference, and perlite is going to cost me $1 a litre ($4 a gallon), unless I find a cheaper source!

 

[outliergenetix]

So I’m looking to start my organic no-till bed in a 3x3 foot tent.

I’m going to be using this container
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07QGSCCQC/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_3p_dp_i1
It should hold between 60-75 gallons of soil, but I am wondering how much aeration I will need? I’ve read as high as 33%, and as low as 10-20%.

Also, is there a better alternative to perlite?

I’m in Canada if that makes a difference, and perlite is going to cost me $1 a litre ($4 a gallon), unless I find a cheaper source!

well im not a fan of perlite and if you are no-till or recycling soil i recommend not using perlite or vermiculite etc. im sure some ppl will chime in and sayy rice hulls etc, but i havn't used them plus they will break down over time and then you have the taskk of keeping up with the right viablle ratio, just my opnion. i am also sure ppl will disagree with what i do mysell which is use my own variation of a basic coots mix, but i use coco instead of peat or shagnum. here is how and why. on it's own coco is basically the perfect medium water retention and for ph. i basically use really high grade organic compost and castings, not commercial castings fed shit or store bought compost. ik what is in my compost and it's allot of coffe, bannas egg shells as well as my chopped fan leaves etc among whatever else i eat that is compostable, worm casting the same. store bought castins are fed an undiverse diet. anyway i needed to make this point because the idea is to use as little organic matter as possible yet still have enough food, microbes etc and balanced for micros etc... i cannot give you an exact ratio but it's possible 50% or more coco, th result is a very dark rich yet fluffy mix that holds water and air grea even in small or fabric pots that in the past i've had to water frequently with other mixes. to this base i also mix in bokashi, azomite, langbenite, alphalpha meel, neem meal, kelp meal as well as some guanos i use 3 kinds of guano with diff NPK, however i don't put a ton in the mix as it is largely soluble. the other part of the regiment is nute tea as needed not often at all and/or top dress when you up-pot. i use diff top dress ratios of the mentioned DTE single ingredient nutes(alphalpha, kelp and guanos) and which guano depends on if it is veg or flower but always a bit of the others to maintain microbe diversity. i never water with a true compost tea as that also will throw off microbes not simply add more like ppl say/think. you can spray compost tea on leaves in veg tho for overall health, but don't foliar the nute tea it will slow root growth. this is pretty much what i do in a nutshell it may sound liek allot or confusing but it really isn't. i do this becasue it is easy once it is made. i keep huge 100 gallon plastic bins and when i harvest i throw rootball and all back in there slightly reammend and mix. this last part has some nuance that would serve to confuse so i will leave it at that, but basically i sometimes don't re-ammend the entire bin but top dress the next wave, this is really on a case by case basis but you will get it.
to clarify a guano tea is a nute tea, a compost tea is well made with compost/castings and is about microbes not soluble nutes like nute tea. also to adjust the tea npk use othe DTE single ingredients based of need, just pay attention to the soluble unsoluble ratios and do the math

 

[Groat21]

well im not a fan of perlite and if you are no-till or recycling soil i recommend not using perlite or vermiculite etc. im sure some ppl will chime in and sayy rice hulls etc, but i havn't used them plus they will break down over time and then you have the taskk of keeping up with the right viablle ratio, just my opnion. i am also sure ppl will disagree with what i do mysell which is use my own variation of a basic coots mix, but i use coco instead of peat or shagnum. here is how and why. on it's own coco is basically the perfect medium water retention and for ph. i basically use really high grade organic compost and castings, not commercial castings fed shit or store bought compost. ik what is in my compost and it's allot of coffe, bannas egg shells as well as my chopped fan leaves etc among whatever else i eat that is compostable, worm casting the same. store bought castins are fed an undiverse diet. anyway i needed to make this point because the idea is to use as little organic matter as possible yet still have enough food, microbes etc and balanced for micros etc... i cannot give you an exact ratio but it's possible 50% or more coco, th result is a very dark rich yet fluffy mix that holds water and air grea even in small or fabric pots that in the past i've had to water frequently with other mixes. to this base i also mix in bokashi, azomite, langbenite, alphalpha meel, neem meal, kelp meal as well as some guanos i use 3 kinds of guano with diff NPK, however i don't put a ton in the mix as it is largely soluble. the other part of the regiment is nute tea as needed not often at all and/or top dress when you up-pot. i use diff top dress ratios of the mentioned DTE single ingredient nutes(alphalpha, kelp and guanos) and which guano depends on if it is veg or flower but always a bit of the others to maintain microbe diversity. i never water with a true compost tea as that also will throw off microbes not simply add more like ppl say/think. you can spray compost tea on leaves in veg tho for overall health, but don't foliar the nute tea it will slow root growth. this is pretty much what i do in a nutshell it may sound liek allot or confusing but it really isn't. i do this becasue it is easy once it is made. i keep huge 100 gallon plastic bins and when i harvest i throw rootball and all back in there slightly reammend and mix. this last part has some nuance that would serve to confuse so i will leave it at that, but basically i sometimes don't re-ammend the entire bin but top dress the next wave, this is really on a case by case basis but you will get it.
to clarify a guano tea is a nute tea, a compost tea is well made with compost/castings and is about microbes not soluble nutes like nute tea. also to adjust the tea npk use othe DTE single ingredients based of need, just pay attention to the soluble unsoluble ratios and do the math

Yeah I’m just wondering what aeration to use... And I’m no expert, but that’s definitely not no-till...

When you re-mix your soil and ammend it, you’re tilling the soil...

Interesting about coco, but I’m going to probably go with the traditional no-till route.

That said, anyone have ideas on what to do for the aeration in my mix?

 

[outliergenetix]

Yeah I’m just wondering what aeration to use... And I’m no expert, but that’s definitely not no-till...

When you re-mix your soil and ammend it, you’re tilling the soil...

Interesting about coco, but I’m going to probably go with the traditional no-till route.

That said, anyone have ideas on what to do for the aeration in my mix?

ummmm i didn't say i no-till and i explained what is the aeration, it is the excessive ratio of coco, trust me man ik what constitutes no till. i am not no-tilling because i am using small pots because i am doing male/female runs and multiple strains ect. what i am doing is called recyled organic soil and i said no-till OR recycling. anyway take or leave the advice but at least read it right
if you wanna no till than cover crop and/or top dress and do the same shit smh i am telling how i re-ammend instead of simply saying use coco for aeration and looking like an idiot