POLL: Income Tax

How quickly we fall into their trap..........divided we fall .........

If you do just a little more research you will find it actually is extremely clear.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/cases.htm

That page explains several of the court cases that have been brought up in this thread.

This isn't really a debatable topic.

Play it like a dumb ass - Start a "trust" and don't file a return for several years. Been there done that. BIG BIG BIG PITA

Play it dumb - Make as much money as possible and pay your due taxes.

Play it smart - Start a "company" and find those deductions.

Play it smarter - Start two companies, find those deductions, and get a CPA smarter than you.

Genius - Never enter your SS# into the system from birth. Never sign a tax return.


A lot of people use paying taxes as a savings account. They think they are beating the system with that huge "bonus" at the end of the year. It's your fuckin money to begin with. Why let the IRS use your money all year and return your hard worked money back to you when they are done. Use that money yourself to make more money.

The IRS is essentially taking a loan from you, using your $ all year and giving it back to you with no interest.

Pay ONLY what is due.

guy incognito said:

The tax code doesn't tax profit, it taxes income. I'm not sure what those quotes from cases have to do with anything.

Also you owe taxes on things bartered whether that be wages or tangible goods.

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technically you are correct, but have you ever seen the IRS build a case against someone not paying taxes based on fair market values of bartered items or services? Ever? How would they know that I swapped 10 pounds of venison for 10 dozen eggs if no one alerts them of it?A Unenforceable tax rule is all it is. If you don't volunteer the information the IRS is VERY hard pressed to even attempt to collect on something it has no idea even took place.

Barter is still pretty much untaxable.

If you don't volunteer the information the IRS is VERY hard pressed to even attempt to collect on something it has no idea even took place.

Ding ding

NoDrama said:

technically you are correct, but have you ever seen the IRS build a case against someone not paying taxes based on fair market values of bartered items or services? Ever? How would they know that I swapped 10 pounds of venison for 10 dozen eggs if no one alerts them of it?A Unenforceable tax rule is all it is. If you don't volunteer the information the IRS is VERY hard pressed to even attempt to collect on something it has no idea even took place.

Barter is still pretty much untaxable.

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That was never the issue though. The exact same argument can be made for wages paid under the table. It's unenforceable because they don't know about it and there is no paper trail. But according to the law you are still required to report that income and pay tax on it, whether it's cash, meat, eggs, or a service you receive (your buddy doing $10k worth of construction in your home).

guy incognito said:

That was never the issue though. The exact same argument can be made for wages paid under the table. It's unenforceable because they don't know about it and there is no paper trail. But according to the law you are still required to report that income and pay tax on it, whether it's cash, meat, eggs, or a service you receive (your buddy doing $10k worth of construction in your home).

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The issue is how much of my money am I going to get to keep, with Barter I get to keep it all. I care not if the law says I must report it, there are lots of laws I ignore daily, so do you.

If you don't like paying taxes..then please stop doing ANY of the following if you are allowed to stop..

1. Do not use Medicare.
2. Do not use Social Security
3. Do not become a member of the US military, who are paid with tax dollars.
4. Do not ask the National Guard to help you after a disaster.
5. Do not call 911 when you get hurt.
6. Do not call the police to stop intruders in your home.
7. Do not summon the fire department to save your burning home.
8. Do not drive on any paved road, highway, and interstate or drive on any bridge.
9. Do not use public restrooms at parks.
10. Do not send your kids to public schools.
11. Do not put your trash out for city garbage collectors.
12. Do not live in areas with clean air.
13. Do not drink clean water.
14. Do not visit National Parks.
15. Do not visit public museums, zoos, and monuments.
16. Do not eat or use FDA inspected food and medicines.
17. Do not bring your kids to public playgrounds.
18. Do not walk or run on sidewalks.
19. Do not use public recreational facilities such as basketball and tennis courts.
20. Do not seek shelter facilities or food in soup kitchens when you are homeless and hungry.
21. Do not apply for educational or job training assistance when you lose your job.
22. Do not apply for food stamps when you can’t feed your children.
23. Do not use the judiciary system for any reason.
24. Do not ask for an attorney when you are arrested and do not ask for one to be assigned to you by the court.
25. Do not apply for any Pell Grants.
26. Do not use cures that were discovered by labs using federal dollars.
27. Do not fly on federally regulated airplanes.
28. Do not use any product that can trace its development back to NASA.
29. Do not watch the weather provided by the National Weather Service.
30. Do not listen to severe weather warnings from the National Weather Service.
31. Do not listen to tsunami, hurricane, or earthquake alert systems.
32. Do not apply for federal housing.
33. Do not use the internet, which was developed by the military.
34. Do not swim in clean rivers.
35. Do not allow your child to eat school lunches or breakfasts.
36. Do not ask for FEMA assistance when everything you own gets wiped out by disaster.
37. Do not ask the military to defend your life and home in the event of a foreign invasion.
38. Do not use your cell phone or home telephone.
39. Do not buy firearms that wouldn’t have been developed without the support of the US Government and military. That includes most of them.
40. Do not eat USDA inspected produce and meat.
41. Do not apply for government grants to start your own business.
42. Do not apply to win a government contract.
43. Do not buy any vehicle that has been inspected by government safety agencies.
44. Do not buy any product that is protected from poisons, toxins, etc…by the Consumer Protection Agency.
45. Do not save your money in a bank that is FDIC insured.
46. Do not use Veterans benefits or military health care.
47. Do not use the G.I. Bill to go to college.
48. Do not apply for unemployment benefits.
49. Do not use any electricity from companies regulated by the Department of Energy.
50. Do not live in homes that are built to code.
51. Do not run for public office. Politicians are paid with taxpayer dollars.
52. Do not ask for help from the FBI, S.W.A.T, the bomb squad, Homeland Security, State troopers, etc…
53. Do not apply for any government job whatsoever as all state and federal employees are paid with tax dollars.
54. Do not use public libraries.
55. Do not use the US Postal Service.
56. Do not visit the National Archives.
57. Do not visit Presidential Libraries.
58. Do not use airports that are secured by the federal government.
59. Do not apply for loans from any bank that is FDIC insured.
60. Do not ask the government to help you clean up after a tornado.
61. Do not ask the Department of Agriculture to provide a subsidy to help you run your farm.
62. Do not take walks in National Forests.
63. Do not ask for taxpayer dollars for your oil company.
64. Do not ask the federal government to bail your company out during recessions.
65. Do not seek medical care from places that use federal dollars.
66. Do not use Medicaid.
67. Do not use WIC.
68. Do not use electricity generated by Hoover Dam.
69. Do not use electricity or any service provided by the Tennessee Valley Authority.
70. Do not ask the Army Corps of Engineers to rebuild levees when they break.
71. Do not let the Coast Guard save you from drowning when your boat capsizes at sea.
72. Do not ask the government to help evacuate you when all hell breaks loose in the country you are in.
73. Do not visit historic landmarks.
74. Do not visit fisheries.
75. Do not expect to see animals that are federally protected because of the Endangered Species List.
76. Do not expect plows to clear roads of snow and ice so your kids can go to school and so you can get to work.
77. Do not hunt or camp on federal land.
78. Do not work anywhere that has a safe workplace because of government regulations.
79. Do not use public transportation.
80. Do not drink water from public water fountains.
81. Do not whine when someone copies your work and sells it as their own. Government enforces copyright laws.
82. Do not expect to own your home, car, or boat. Government organizes and keeps all titles.
83. Do not expect convicted felons to remain off the streets.
84. Do not eat in restaurants that are regulated by food quality and safety standards.
85. Do not seek help from the US Embassy if you need assistance in a foreign nation.
86. Do not apply for a passport to travel outside of the United States.
87. Do not apply for a patent when you invent something.
88. Do not adopt a child through your local, state, or federal governments.
89.Do not use elevators that have been inspected by federal or state safety regulators.
90. Do not use any resource that was discovered by the USGS.
91. Do not ask for energy assistance from the government.
92. Do not move to any other developed nation, because the taxes are much higher.
93. Do not go to a beach that is kept clean by the state.
94. Do not use money printed by the US Treasury.
95. Do not complain when millions more illegal immigrants cross the border because there are no more border patrol agents.
96. Do not attend a state university.
97. Do not see any doctor that is licensed through the state.
98. Do not use any water from municipal water systems.
99. Do not complain when diseases and viruses, that were once fought around the globe by the US government and CDC, reach your house.
100. Do not work for any company that is required to pay its workers a livable wage, provide them sick days, vacation days, and benefits.
101. Do not expect to be able to vote on election days. Government provides voting booths, election day officials, and voting machines which are paid for with taxes.
102. Do not ride trains. The railroad was built with government financial assistance.
By Stephen D Foster

^^^ I don't mind paying taxes as long as they are not taxes on my labor. What I get paid in wages is an even exchange; my labor for my pay.

Yes, the tax code says "taxes on income from whatever source derived ... including income derived from wages. Now what exactly does that mean? When I receive my wages, have I derived any income from those wages? Nope, not until I invest those wages into some kind of investment that pays me a PROFIT on those wages. At that time, I now have derived income from wages.

Take that one on and reply back.

income does not equal profit when dealing with an individual.

barter is most definetly taxable. modern barter is done through exchanges and credits. it's almost like a bank account. and you have to fill out a 1099. most of the time it's not included in your taxable income, but it does need to be reported.

no better way to get audited than to fail to report barter.

londonfog said:

If you don't like paying taxes..then please stop doing ANY of the following if you are allowed to stop..

1. Do not use Medicare.
2. Do not use Social Security
3.
By Stephen D Foster

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Stephen D Foster isn't very smart is he? SS isn't a tax, its a pension, a trust fund, a ponzi scheme, call it what you will, but its not a tax.

redivider said:

income does not equal profit when dealing with an individual.

barter is most definetly taxable. modern barter is done through exchanges and credits. it's almost like a bank account. and you have to fill out a 1099. most of the time it's not included in your taxable income, but it does need to be reported.

no better way to get audited than to fail to report barter.

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I have failed to report barter literally tens of thousands of times, the first time was when me and Suzy were 7 years old and I traded my ham sandwich for her jelly and banana sandwich. I was a terrible child. I haven't ever been audited, in fact I cannot think of a Single instance of barter that ANYONE has EVER done that the IRS felt was suspicious and wanted to do an audit. How in the fuck would they know about it? You are funny sometimes.

The best way to an audit is having huge sums of undeclared cash in the bank and having no source of income.

Oral sex is illegal in Florida and Alabama, its a law. Think they arrest a lot of folks on that one? Perhaps each police station has its own Dick Sucking Investigation Unit? If they do how come David Caruso isn't starring in the new hit show DSIU: Miami?

NoDrama said:

Stephen D Foster isn't very smart is he? SS isn't a tax, its a pension, a trust fund, a ponzi scheme, call it what you will, but its not a tax.

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are you paying attention...did I say Social Security was a tax ???? Please show me my quote where I did...Social Security is a social insurance program that is funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contribution Act tax(FICA). If you have a job its taken out of your check before you get it from the government ( just like taxes)...Now if you don't want to pay it ( just like you guys don't want to pay taxes ) don't expect to receive or use it when it comes time...Again in your effort to "one up" on Londonfog you seem to make yourself look rather dumb...I think that list carried 102 items why you only show the first two... hell did you put the number 3 up and erased what it said ??????? You failed once again Modrama

londonfog said:

are you paying attention...did I say Social Security was a tax ???? Please show me my quote where I did...Social Security is a social insurance program that is funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contribution Act tax(FICA). If you have a job its taken out of your check before you get it from the government ( just like taxes)...Now if you don't want to pay it ( just like you guys don't want to pay taxes ) don't expect to receive or use it when it comes time...Again in your effort to "one up" on Londonfog you seem to make yourself look rather dumb...I think that list carried 102 items why you only show the first two... hell did you put the number 3 up and erased what it said ??????? You failed once again Modrama

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You said: "If you don't like paying taxes..then please stop doing ANY of the following if you are allowed to stop..", followed by a list of 102 items. #1 and #2 were Medicare and SS, so in essence, you did say SS and Medicare are a tax.
By the way, I do not benefit from or use anything on your list, does THAT exempt me from paying taxes?

Mupphet.Man said:

The U.S. Mail Service should be included. (Constitutionally legal) Therefore you also need to account for a way for the service to do its duties, (roads). At one time that was a purely Federal matter, should it be again? If not, how much of the current services provided by the Fed. Gov't would you propose the state gov'ts take over? Then, if it is unlawful to have an income tax (Aaron Russo) - and you weren't paying your Fed, why would you pay your state? Lol - Who the fuck is going to fix the roads, dude? There are other vital services that you take for granted, that would disappear. The problem with neo-conservatism in respect to socio-economics is that neo-conservatives assume there are enough good people out there to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves. The truth is, and if you're a drug user, drug dealer, drug manufactorer, then you know it already, is that people are selfish. So, that leaves: let the weak die and the strong live, ok then, but what about small children, could you be the dude saying that then? Not me... Sorry to get on a tangent here, but I thought why not a little debate.

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i think you completely misunderstand the conservative position. most of us dont have a problem paying taxes for public needs. ie roads, ss, and other reasonable things.

my problem is when they paint everything as a "need" and make others pay for it. ie ethanol, windmills, volts, etc.

and another thing that bothers most conservatives is the handouts to unproductive people. i am not talking about people who are really in need. i am talking about people who have learned to game the system. and if you ever spent any time with people on welfare, you will know exactly what i am talking about.

a woman who has a baby out of wedlock, fine, throw her a few bucks. two babies? why didnt she learn her lesson? three? forget about it, you are on your own. when you walk through my town (58 percent on welfare by school tallies) there are 16 year olds with 2 and 3 babies everywhere.

this type of govt program not only destroys the person, but the society.

people get used to handouts and begin to feel entitled to them. thats where we are as a country now. everyone wants something for nothing, and wants someone else to pay for it. it isnt healthy, or sustainable.

look at the 99 week unemployment. i have about 5 friends right now that are on the verge of running out of checks. all of them have refused jobs because they were "collecting". now the checks are running out and they dont want to even look for work. the system has ruined their initiative.

londonfog said:

are you paying attention...did I say Social Security was a tax ???? Please show me my quote where I did...Social Security is a social insurance program that is funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contribution Act tax(FICA). If you have a job its taken out of your check before you get it from the government ( just like taxes)...Now if you don't want to pay it ( just like you guys don't want to pay taxes ) don't expect to receive or use it when it comes time...Again in your effort to "one up" on Londonfog you seem to make yourself look rather dumb...I think that list carried 102 items why you only show the first two... hell did you put the number 3 up and erased what it said ??????? You failed once again Modrama

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Is your name Stephen D Foster? It must be, for you to take it so personally. Who said we don't want to pay taxes? We love paying taxes, we just feel that a tax on your wage is akin to slavery and would like it abolished forthright.

Have a great day Steve!

If you're looking at social security and none of YOUR money is in the FUND, what would that be called?

If your employer was taking your paycheck and applying it to an account reserved for you when you retire, and you try to collect it but it isn't there, what would happen to said employer? Ie, enron.

Secondly, why is it okay with you if that's exactly what your govt has done?

Mr Neutron said:

By the way, I do not benefit from or use anything on your list, does THAT exempt me from paying taxes?

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so you never drive on U.S roads...and did you really read the list for number 33 would make you a liar for saying you do not use anything on the list

NoDrama said:

Is your name Stephen D Foster? It must be, for you to take it so personally. Who said we don't want to pay taxes? We love paying taxes, we just feel that a tax on your wage is akin to slavery and would like it abolished forthright.

Have a great day Steve!

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LOL..nope not steve, but you can call me that if it makes you happy Modrama...I had to give credit to the person who create the list...