Obama is the man

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
If we go to war with Russia, there'll have to be a draft. And if that ever happens, they better be a whole lot more fair about it than they were in the past. No more rich folks' kids buying their way out of it, or having their dad use influence to get them easy duty in Texas. No more forcing the poor to fight so the rich can lounge around and watch the poor die on TV. If we have to fight, we have to fight, but we should do it all together, not allow the use of money and influence to weight the burden unfairly toward one segment of the population.
 

tipsgnob

New Member
If we go to war with Russia, there'll have to be a draft. And if that ever happens, they better be a whole lot more fair about it than they were in the past. No more rich folks' kids buying their way out of it, or having their dad use influence to get them easy duty in Texas. No more forcing the poor to fight so the rich can lounge around and watch the poor die on TV. If we have to fight, we have to fight, but we should do it all together, not allow the use of money and influence to weight the burden unfairly toward one segment of the population.
you are talking about the U.S. right?
 

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
LMFAO.. if we goto war with Russia.. you mean if we keep provoking and threatening Russia.. sorry, I see through the propaganda and the lies the msm has been constructing about Russia through this Georgia situation- no one I know will march into battle for that.

The idea of a draft itself is insane, if it was a war our people felt strongly about, there would be no need for a draft... A draft implies the government owns you, and can send you to fight and die for their causes, and for the wars they start. Doesn't sound like freedom..
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
LMFAO.. if we goto war with Russia.. you mean if we keep provoking and threatening Russia.. sorry, I see through the propaganda and the lies the msm has been constructing about Russia through this Georgia situation- no one I know will march into battle for that.

The idea of a draft itself is insane, if it was a war our people felt strongly about, there would be no need for a draft... A draft implies the government owns you, and can send you to fight and die for their causes, and for the wars they start. Doesn't sound like freedom..

I wonder where you would be milf if the French government said the same thing about America when Brittan was trying to force us under their despotic flag during the revolution.

luckily the French opted to help us, against their most dangerous foe Great Briton. that took balls, like anything worth doing, it takes balls and hard work

without their help America would have never existed. never existed to let you live in freedom, never existed to save the world from Hitler including the French themselves from the destruction of their free society.

maybe one day the free country of Georgia who are free from Russian oppression will save America in our time of need hundreds of hears from now.

maybe, or maybe they will be eternally grateful for generations to come, as so many free Americans and thier children and grand children are.


If you abandon Georgia after we have befriended them and told them to join with us and fight against thier oppressors, just like every other country in the eastern Europe who wanted to escape from the dictators and gulags of the USSR.

then we should have just abandoned Briton, France, east Germany, china, south Korea, & south Vietnam and everyone one else, including our own country so the dictators could freely consolidate their power and do what they do best. Dictate

to you, to me and to every one else.

tell u what to do, and who to fuck, and what to eat, how hard yours or my little boy will slave in the field, how long of a line you will wait for food. and how much of the riches of your country they will splurge upon themselves and their minions to secure their power and shit on the people just like saddam, and every other power money hungry fucker that ever walked this earth

If you know the truth, that freedom is the right for every human being on earth, then it matters not how powerful the enemies of freedom are. That is not relevant.

or else just give up now. and let them take over


humans are animals, and the good must have control, or the evil ones will take over. I wouldn't really care if they did I guess but I have little children and family and people I care about.

we have been so lucky that we are a country that's loves freedom for all and success through hard work instead of slavery or pseudo slavery through communism or redistribution of the fruits of your own labor.

thank god we became the most powerful country and not Hitler and not Stalin and not Tajo, and King George III and every other fucker who has come around trying to tell us what to do.

so for all the ones who died before us fighting for us. I say lets not shit on them now when we are at the best and strongest that we have ever been. lets not shirk our duty, shirk our responsibility to advnace peace through freedom

Kinda would be the most unthinkable act of cowardess and ignorent selfishness ever perpetrated if we did that.

I say ignorent selfishness because that type of attitude would eventually lead to the destruction of your country and the world we live in together.

I mean why did all the millions die over history for all our freedoms and reforms?


"The long gray line has never failed us. Were you to do so, a million ghosts in olive drab, in brown khaki, in blue and gray, would rise from their white crosses, thundering those magic words: Duty, Honor, Country"

- General Douglas MacArthur
 

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
I had to stop reading when you said protect Georgia from Russia oppression.. lol.. maybe you should watch less tv and start reading. GEORGIA ATTACKED FIRST, out of the blue. Both of the disputed territories had fought for their independence FROM Georgia in the 90's and won. Most of the population in the disputed areas had Russia passports, voted in the Russian elections- the Russians were obligated by agreement to protect the areas in question. Georgia killed almost 2,000 civilians in South Ossetia- give me a break Russian aggression. Russia came to the aid of the two territories to fight GEORGIA OPPRESSION. Do some research please and get back to me...
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
I had to stop reading when you said protect Georgia from Russia oppression.. lol.. maybe you should watch less tv and start reading. GEORGIA ATTACKED FIRST, out of the blue. Both of the disputed territories had fought for their independence FROM Georgia in the 90's and won. Most of the population in the disputed areas had Russia passports, voted in the Russian elections- the Russians were obligated by agreement to protect the areas in question. Georgia killed almost 2,000 civilians in South Ossetia- give me a break Russian aggression. Russia came to the aid of the two territories to fight GEORGIA OPPRESSION. Do some research please and get back to me...

honey I understand what your saying, but the truth is Russia has been poised and planning this, they have been sending and training rissian seperatists to mess with Georgia so they can have an excuse to go in there and take it back.

they send thier sabatuors in there, fully knowing that Georgia will have to come in there and clear out these, "infultrators"

and guess what?

when Georgia did just as expected all of a sudden a zillion russian troops are already in thier tanks with the engines running crossing the border?

whos being nieve honey?



USA told Georgea not to go in there because we new full well what the russias were planning.

anyway,
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
now lets examine this, why is russia best buddies with castro? and his hell island

i can go to cuba right now and get a blowjob for a pack of cigs.


now if u wanna take russias side fine.


but ask yourself this, u like ugo Shavez?

well for some reason the russians like him a lot.

check out what hes systematically doin to his people.


kinda gettin too close to home if you ask me.

see the difference is we may be right near russias border, but we are there to make sure people are free to do as they please like us.

they come near our borders so they can help dictators consolidate power and rape thier people.
 

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
From what I recall the Russians didn't retaliate right away, no one was 'waiting in their tanks'- and I can find little to back up your claims.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
In seeking to justify its invasion of Georgia, Russia has claimed that its forces entered Georgian territory only after a purported “surprise Georgian assault” on Tskhinvali; however, Moscow continues to refuse to make public the time at which Russia launched its invasion into Georgia.

As the following timeline makes clear, Georgian Government forces advanced into the Tskhinvali region only after days of intensive shelling that caused civilian deaths in villages under Georgian control —and after confirmation that a massive Russian land force had begun invading Georgia through the Roki Tunnel.

This was the culmination of months of meticulous planning by Russia; 40,000 Russian troops were soon occupying Georgia, as part of a simultaneous land, air and sea assault, unfolding a premeditated strategy that had little to do with Russia’s stated claim of protecting its recently created “citizens” in the Tskhinvali region.

This document is organized into the following three sections:
I. RUSSIAN ESCALATION 2004-AUGUST 2008: Russian Policy Toward Georgia in the Months Before the Invasion
II. KEY POINTS: The Days Before, During & After Russia’s Invasion of Georgia
III. DETAILED CHRONOLOGY: The Days Before, During & After Russia’s Invasion of Georgia



I. RUSSIAN ESCALATION 2004-JULY 2008: Key Developments in the Russian Military & Political Escalation Before the Invasion of Georgia
  • Georgian peace proposals repeatedly rejected by Russia (2004 onwards): Beginning in 2004, the Georgian Government has repeatedly proposed to launch a genuine peace process for South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Years of stalemate had left all ethnic populations in both conflict zones impoverished and without any effective protection of basic rights; Georgians in particular were targeted and persecuted on ethnic grounds. The Russian Federation and separatist leaders have rejected Georgia’s peace initiatives each and every time they have been proposed—even when the international community backed the initiatives. As a result, South Ossetia and Abkhazia have become hubs for acute criminal activity, including kidnapping, extortion, counterfeiting, smuggling of arms and drugs. At least one case of nuclear smuggling has been confirmed (Annex 1).
  • Russia gains stranglehold over separatist governments (2005 onwards): In recent years, Moscow has been exerting an increasingly strong hold over the separatist governments; since 2005, Russian military and civilian officials seconded from Moscow effectively have been governing South Ossetia (Annex 2).
  • Russia builds illegal base near Tskhinvali (2006): In spring 2006, Russian forces illegally build of a forward military base in the strategically located town of Java (north of Tskhinvali). The base has capacity for 2,500 soldiers, and includes substantial fuel-storage capabilities for tanks and other armored vehicles.
  • CIS arms/economic embargo lifted illegally by Moscow (March 2008): In March, the Russian Federation unilaterally—and illegally—withdraws from a CIS economic and arms embargo imposed in 1994 on the secessionist region of Abkhazia, Georgia.
  • International community condemns Russia’s legal recognition of S. Ossetia & Abkhazia (April 2008): On April 16, Moscow sharply escalates tensions by decreeing the establishment of legal links between Russia and the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia; this is a form of de facto annexation of Georgian territory and draws sharp rebukes from the entire international community—including the EU, the US, the OSCE, and others, who call for the immediate reversal of this Russian decision.
  • United Nations confirms Russia downs Georgian aircraft over Georgian airspace (April 2006): On April 20, a Russian fighter jet downs an unarmed Georgian drone (MIA) over Georgian airspace (near Ganmukhuri), an act of aggression confirmed by formal UNOMIG and OSCE investigative reports. (Annex 3)
  • Russia increases troop strength & introduces paratroopers into Abkhazia (May/June 2008): In the following weeks, Russia continues to unilaterally increase its troop strength in Abkhazia, without fulfilling its legal obligation to seek the consent of Georgia; among other moves, it deploys paratrooper units, which are incompatible with the existing format for peacekeeping.
  • Russia moves illegal heavy weaponry & offensive forces into Abkhazia (May/June 2008): In direct contravention of all peacekeeping norms and agreements, Russia introduces additional offensive military troops and heavy weaponry in Abkhazia, verified by UNOMIG.
  • Russian railroad troops sent to Abkhazia to prepare rails for invasion (May 26, 2008): On May 26, Russia sends more than 400 hundreds of Ministry of Defense “railroad troops” into Abkhazia to reinforce the rail infrastructure needed for military action; these troops do not belong to any peacekeeping unit.
  • As peace plan advances, Russian provocations move to S. Ossetia (July 2008): In July, as the efforts by Georgia and the international community to advance peace proposals for Abkhazia are gathering pace, the focus of Russian provocations suddenly shifts to South Ossetia.
  • Separatists attempt to assassinate S. Ossetian unionist leader (July 3, 2008): On July 3, South Ossetian separatists attempt to assassinate Dimitry Sanakoyev, the Head of the Temporary Administration of South Ossetia ; three policemen are injured.
  • Russia defiantly acknowledges violating Georgian airspace (July 10, 2008): On July 9, Four Russian military aircraft violate Georgian airspace on the eve of US Secretary of State Rice’s visit to Georgia. Although Russia continually violates Georgian airspace, this is the first time Moscow acknowledges it has done so deliberately.
  • Russia undertakes large-scale military exercises near S. Ossetia & Abkhazia (July 2008): Russia launches large-scale military exercises (July 15-August 2) in the immediate vicinity of Georgia’s northern border; they are named “Caucasus 2008.” The Russian Defense Ministry claims that the exercises, involving over 8,000 troops and 700 pieces of military hardware, are aimed at preparing for “special peace enforcement operations” in the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. During the exercise, anti-Georgian leaflets are distributed entitled “Know Your Enemy”.
  • Russian troops fail to redeploy (August 2 2008): Russian troops participating in the exercise do not re-deploy from the region when the exercises are finished.
  • Separatists reject German-mediated peace plan (July 18, 2008): On July 18, Abkhaz separatists reject a German-mediated peace plan and refuse to attend peace talks scheduled in Berlin.
  • EU organizes peace talks, separatists fail to appear (July 22-24, 2008): On July 22-24, the EU tries to hold talks in Brussels between representatives of the Government of Georgia and the South Ossetian separatists, with the participation of the Russian Federation. The separatists refuse to participate, initially objecting to the title of Minister Yakobashvili—“Minister for Reintegration.” In response, the Georgian Government appoints Mr. Yakobashvili as a Special Envoy for Conflict Resolution. The separatists once again refuse to attend the talks on unspecified grounds.
  • OSCE proposes peace talks, separatists reject proposal (late July 2008): OSCE Chairman in Office, Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, proposes talks in Helsinki in early August between South Ossetian separatists and the Georgian Government. The separatists reject the proposal.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
II. KEY POINTS: The Days Before, During & After Russia’s Invasion of Georgia
  • July 3: One month before Russia’s invasion into Georgia, separatists try to assassinate Dimitri Sanakoyev, Head of the Temporary Administration of South Ossetia. A remote control road bomb exploded while Mr Sanakoyev’s cortege was passing by. Five policemen accompanying Mr. Sanakoyev were wounded. Mr. Sanakoyev—a former separatist fighter and defense minister in the separatist government - laid down his arms in 2006 to promote the peaceful re-integration of the region with the rest of the country under a broad autonomy arrangement. Mr. Sanakoyev was elected in democratic elections and administered up to 50% of the territory of the region.
  • July 29: For the first time since last major hostilities, separatist militia begin intensively shelling ethnically mixed villages under Georgian control, including those of them where the Georgian peacekeepers held their check-points, with large-caliber artillery (greater than 82 mm) which is prohibited by existing agreements. This fact is formally acknowledged by the Head of “Peacekeeping Forces,” Russian General Marat Kulakhmetov on August 4 (he makes specific reference to the shelling on villages under Government control on August 1 and 2 with high caliber artillery). Shelling of this magnitude continues on a regular basis through August 7, in advance of the Russian land invasion into Georgia.
  • 1 August: A pickup truck carrying six police officers of MIA of Georgia is hit by two remote-control explosive devices (IED) on the Eredvi-Kheiti bypass road, close to the Government controlled enclave north of the city of Tskhinvali. Five policemen are severely wounded.
  • 3 August: Russian media outlets report the large-scale mobilization of volunteers across the Russian North Caucasus, including pledges by Cossacks to deploy mercenary troops into Georgia.
  • 4 August: The separatists announce the evacuation of the civilian population from Tskhinvali and from the separatist controlled villages of the region.
  • 5 & 7 August: At the request of President Saakashvili, Special Envoy Temur Yakobashvili twice attempts to negotiate with separatists, but his requests are rebuffed.
  • 7 August: The Special Envoy of Russia’s Foreign Ministry, Yuri Popov, fails to mediate preliminary agreed talks on a ceasefire, citing refusal by the separatists, while shelling of Villages under Government control continues. General Kulakhmetov, during the meeting in Tskhinvali with Special Envoy Yakobashvili, declares that he cannot contact the separatist leaders, and that Russian “peacekeepers” cannot stop the separatist attacks; General Kulakhmetov admits that the separatists were shooting from the vicinity of Russian “peacekeeping” posts. In spite of casualties among Georgian peacekeepers and civilians killed by separatist fire, President Saakashvili orders an immediate ceasefire and calls for negotiations. He reaffirms the Government’s proposal to grant broad “European standard” autonomy to the region, and offers Russia to serve as a guarantor. President Saakashvili also announces an unconditional amnesty for separatists who agree to cease hostilities. Despite the ceasefire declared by President Saakashvili, the separatists intensify their shelling of villages under Georgian control and Georgian peacekeeper posts. Approximately 150 armored vehicles and military trucks of the Russian regular army stream into the Roki Tunnel and head towards Tskhinvali. In response to the entry of Russian armed forces into Georgian territory, the Georgian military enters the conflict zone in the region. Russia claims that its forces entered Georgian territory only after a purported “surprise Georgian assault” on Tskhinvali; however Russia continues to refuse to make public the time at which it launched its invasion into Georgia.
  • 8 August: The Ministry of Defense of Russia and various senior officials claim that Georgian forces “have killed 2,000 civilians” in Tskhinvali.
  • 11 August: Human Rights Watch representative say that Russia purposely exaggerated casualty figures in Tskhinvali, leading to revenge killings against the ethnic Georgian population (Annex 4).
  • 21 August: The Russian Prosecutor General’s Office reports significantly lower civilian casualty figures in the South Ossetia region at 133. There is a strong likelihood that the majority of these casualties were separatist militiamen, as local officials frequently refer to non-Russian servicemen as civilians (Annexes 5 and 6).
  • 9–24 August: Following the retreat of Georgian armed forces towards Tbilisi, the Russian armed forces and paramilitary groupss conduct widespread atrocities, including the burning, looting, kidnapping, raping, and summary executions of Georgian civilians inside and outside the zone of conflict. Within the zone of conflict, entire villages of Eredvi, Avnevi, Nuli, Kurta, Achabeti, Tamarasheni, Kekhvi, Disevi, etc., are deliberately burned and destroyed, resulting in the ethnic cleansing of Georgians. Many of these events are confirmed in reports issued by international human rights organizations. (Annex 7).
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
III. DETAILED CHRONOLOGY: The Days Before, During & After Russia’s Invasion of Georgia
28 July: Separatist units open fire at joint peacekeeping forces and an OSCE observer group moving towards the village of Chorbauli (Znauri district), thus disrupting monitoring activity.
29 July: Separatists open fire at villages under Government control to the north of Tskhinvali. They fire at a group of OSCE observers, working with the joint peacekeeping forces, who are on their way to the village of Andzisi. (Annex 8) 120 mm mortars and grenade launchers target a Georgian peacekeeping checkpoint near the village of Sarabuki.
30 July: A Georgian police car, traveling between the villages of Kekhvi and Sveri, is fired upon from positions in the separatist-controlled village of Andzisi.
31 July: The joint monitoring group of the JPKF and the OSCE mission observe large-scale fortification works undertaken by the separatists on two checkpoints between Tskhinvali and the village of Ergneti.
1 August: A pickup truck carrying six Georgian police officers is hit by two remote-control explosive devices (IED) close to a Georgian enclave north of the city of Tskhinvali. Five policemen are severely wounded. Later that day,separatists open fire with machine guns and grenade launchers on the villages under Government control Kvemo Nikozi, Zemo Nikozi, Avnevi, Ergneti, and Eredvi. Attacks also are directed at Georgian police and peacekeepers checkpoints. In the village of Nuli, one person is wounded and several houses damaged. Georgian peacekeepers checkpoint in Sarabuki comes under attack. In the village of Ergneti, one person is wounded and two houses are damaged. Separatists reported, that six separatist militia are killed and 12 wounded after Georgian police open fire in response.
2 August: Six civilians and one servicemen of MIA of Georgia are injured after separatists shell villages under Georgian control in the conflict zone overnight. The villages of Zemo Nikozi, Kvemo Nikozi, Nuli, Avnevi, Eredvi, and Ergneti come under intense large-caliber mortar fire the separatists. Georgian law enforcers initially shoot back in self-defense, but are soon ordered to cease fire in order not to escalate the situation.
3 August: The separatist government starts an evacuation of the civilian population from the city of Tskhinvali and villages under separatist control of the region. The evacuation continues for the next two days.
Russian media outlets start a massive propaganda campaign against Georgia, advocating for volunteers and militias to support separatists in South Ossetia. Representatives of major Russian television networks (i.e. NTV, RTR, ORT, Ren TV, TVC, etc.) are on-site in Tskhinvali.
South Ossetia media sources report the mobilization of volunteers from across the North Caucasus of Russia.
4 August: General Marat Kulakhmetov, Head of the “Peacekeeping Forces,” formally acknowledges the shelling of Georgian positions with illegal (large-caliber) artillery. (Annex 9). On the evening of August 4, the medical and communication units of Russia’s 58th Army enter South Ossetia, according to human intelligence received by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia.
Eleven artillery gunships (2S1-“Gvozdika”) in the possession of separatists are relocated from Java to the villages of Andzisi, Dzari, and Tsru, close to Tskhinvali, according to intelligence provided to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia.
5 August: 3 tanks and 2 military trucks with armed soldiers are reported moving towards the village of Avnevi. According to telephone intercepts, separatist internal affairs minister M. Mindzaev (formerly head of the General Staff of the Ministry of Interior of North Ossetia, Russia and former head of the Alfa Special Forces Group during Russia’s operation in Beslan) orders a massive attack on—and the elimination of—the village Dvani (SigInt)*.
*Here and below signal interseptions are cited. They are available upon request.
Special Envoy Temur Yakobashvili visits the conflict zone Tskhinvali, meets Russian General Marat Kulakhmetov, to agree the next meeting for 7 August to defuse the situation.
A journalist of Le Figaro, Laure Mandeville later quotes a Russian soldier in Gori who says that Russian troops began moving from Shali in the Chechnya region of Russia towards Georgia on August 5.
6 August: Approximately 150 volunteers from the North Caucasus arrive in Tskhinvali as reported by local television; militants from other North Caucasian republics join separatist units.
Russian and local employees working on the military base in Tskhinvali are temporarily dismissed. Shops and other offices are closed, as reported on local television.
In the late afternoon at approximately 16:00, separatists open mortar fire from the villages of Pranevi, Ubiati, and Khetagurovo at ethnically mixed and Georgian-controlled villages of Eredvi, Prisi, Avnevi, Dvani, and Nuli. Khetagurovo was the main artillery base of the separatists. This attack continues until approximately 19:00.
A lull is then observed for one hour, with attacks resuming at 20:00 and lasting until late into the night. Georgian government forces fire back in order to defend their positions and the civilian population. As a result of intensive cross-fire during the night, two servicemen of the Georgian battalion of the Joint Peacekeeping Forces are injured. The separatist regime also claims several persons are injured on their side. Despite these provocative, targeted attacks on peaceful civilians and on Georgian police and peacekeeping forces, the Government of Georgia decides not to respond with heavy fire, in order not to escalate the conflict.
7 August: In a morning interview with Russian TV (NTV) and news agencies, South Ossetian separatist leader Eduard Kokoity declares that if the Georgian government does not withdraw its forces from the region, he will start “to wipe them out.” The Georgian military forces to which he refers are peacekeepers legally present in the South Ossetia conflict zone.
Georgian Special Envoy Temur Yakobashvili visits the conflict zone on August 7 to meet with representatives of the separatists. He meets General Marat Kulakhmetov, in Tskhinvali; Kulakhmetov states that he cannot contact the separatist leader Kokoity, and that Russian peacekeepers cannot stop the separatist attacks. Kulakhmetov admits that the separatists are shooting from the vicinity of Russian peacekeeping posts. During this meeting, at approximately 16:00, General Kulakhmetov suggests to Minister Yakobashvili that the Government of Georgia declare a unilateral ceasefire.
The Special Envoy of Russia’s Foreign Ministry, Yuri Popov fails to arrive to Tskinvali, as previously agreed together with Minister Yakobashvili, citing a flat tire and a flat spare tire. When he finally reaches Tskhinvali, Popov meets Kokoity, and afterwards concedes that he cannot convince the separatists to hold urgent talks with Minister Yakobashvili (Annex 10).
Earlier, at approximately 00:15, separatists begin attacking the villages of Eredvi, Prisi, and Vanati, with artillery, including mortars and grenade launchers. Simultaneously, the separatists attack the Sarabuki Heights, where Georgian peacekeepers are stationed. Three Georgian peacekeepers are wounded during the Sarabuki attack. The fighting in this area continues until approximately 10:00.
At approximately 11:00, separatists resume shelling the Georgian villages of Nuli, Avnevi, Vanati, from the village of Khetagurovo. Three Georgian servicemen are injured; a Georgian law enforcers return fire towards the village where the firing comes from, Khetagurovo, killing two separatists and wounding two others. At approximately 14:00, the Georgian peacekeeping checkpoint in Avnevi is shelled, including again from Khetagurovo, killing two Georgian peacekeepers and eight civilians. Phone conversation interception of separatist militia confirming the death of Georgian military servicemen and civilians is available (Sigint)*.
After the killing of civilians and Georgian peacekeepers, at approximately 14:30, Georgian armed forces receive intelligence that Russian troops that had still not redeployed from July’s North Caucasian military exercises have been put on high alert and have received orders to prepare to march towards the Georgian border.
At approximately 14:30, Georgian forces mobilize tanks, 122mm howitzers, and 203mm self-propelled artillery in the direction of the administrative border of South Ossetia, in an effort to deter further separatist attacks, and to be in a position to defend the Russian-Georgian border in the event that Russia invades.
At approximately 17:00, Minister Yakobashvili calls General Kulakhmetov to inform him of the Government of Georgia’s decision to implement a unilateral ceasefire.
At approximately 17:10, Georgian peacekeepers unilaterally cease fire to defuse tensions.
At 18:40, Minister Yakobashvili holds a press conference to discuss the results of his visit to Tskhinvali, and announces the decision of the Government of Georgia to call for and implement a unilateral ceasefire.
At 19:10, in a televised address, President Saakashvili declares a unilateral ceasefire and calls for the separatists to respect it and resume talks.
At approximately 20:30, a Government controlled village of Avnevi comes under separatist mortar fire from Khetagurovo.
The chairman of the separatist Security Council, Anatoly Barankevich (a long-standing Russian military officer, who served for four years as First Deputy of the Military Commissioner in Chechnya), tells the local TV that armed groups of Cossacks are headed towards South Ossetia to “fight against Georgian forces”.
At 22:30, separatists fire at the Government -controlled village of Prisi and Tamarsheni, from Tskhinvali and the mountain of Tliakana, wounding civilians.
At 23:30, separatists open heavy fire on all Georgian peacekeepers’ positions around Tskhinvali, including the villages of Tamarasheni and Kurta; the Kurta police station is destroyed.
At 23:30, Georgian Government receive multiple human intelligence reports that about 150 armored vehicles and trucks with Russian soldiers are approaching the Roki Tunnel from Russia and moving towards Tskhinvali. Multiple signal intercepts of separatist security and military officials at around 3am and later confirm that columns are stretched from Roki to Java. (Sigint)*.
At 23:50, for the first time, and in response to the entry of Russian armed forces into Georgian sovereign territory, Georgian armed forces enter military action—using armor, including tanks, 122mm howitzers, and 203mm self-propelled artillery system Dana.
At approximately 00:45 on August 8, Georgian forces fire artillery rounds at the invading Russian forces on roads being used by a Russian column already moving south of the Roki Tunnel.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
After Russia’s Full-Scale Invasion: 8 August to present
Outside Tskhinvali
On August 8, after advancing into the conflict zone of South Ossetia, Georgian armed forces seized control of a significant number of villages around Tskhinvali during a five-hour period (Tsinagara, Orchosani, Didmukha, Muguti, Gromi, Dmenisi, and Artsevi, ). During the fighting, Georgian armed forces encountered substantial Russian forces and separatist militias on the Zara bypass road leading to the northeastern part of Tskhinvali and the village of Khetagurovo, which had been substantially re-enforced with advanced artillery systems, armored vehicles, and self-propelled artillery. In response, Georgian artillery shelled both positions. Georgian artillery and aviation conducted a targeted attacks on the Gupta bridge, where Russian armed columns where entering Tskhinvali.
Outskirts of Tskhivali and Inside Tskhinvali
Tskhinvali is a small regional town, located in a river valley, approximately 75 kilometers from Tbilisi. Immediately prior to the conflict, the population was approximately 7,000, based on local intelligence estimates and on-the-ground reports. Following the mass evacuation on August 3-5, the number of residents decreased substantially.
Several Georgian positions were under attack from points on the outskirts of town, specifically from Verkhny Gorodok (the location of the Russian “peacekeepers” on the non-residential southwest portion of the city). This was the first position in the immediate vicinity of Tskhinvali that Georgian forces targeted using GRAD multiple-rocket launching systems, following repeated warnings to the Russian “peacekeeping” forces not to allow their positions to be used for attacks. Soon thereafter, Georgian artillery (again using GRADs) targeted stockpiles of munitions and fuel depots located on the western part of the city—outside civilian areas—and military barracks in the northwest part of Tskhinvali—also outside civilian areas.
At approximately 11:00, once Georgian forces had secured the heights around Tskhinvali, Ministry of Defense and Ministry of Interior forces entered the city of Tskhinvali. These forces came under fire from positions around the main government compound, located in the center of Tskhinvali. In response, Georgian forces employed precise artillery system Dana (not GRAD) against the ministries of defense, interior, intelligence (KGB), and the main government building of the separatists.
Russian aviation bombed Georgian positions on a continuous basis inside and around Tskhinvali once Government forces began advancing on the town. Russian aviation continued bombing in and around Tskhinvali for the next two days (until late in the day on August 10).
At approximately 14:00, Georgian forces took control of most of Tskhinvali. At 15:00, Georgian forces declared a 3-hour ceasefire to establish a humanitarian corridor.
Georgian forces began a phased retreat from Tskhinvali during the evening of August 9. Forces re-positioned themselves south of the city.
During the two days that Georgian forces were in control of separatist controlled villages (from August 8) there were no credible reports of looting or abuse of civilian populations, according to international human rights organizations. The ethnic Ossetian population in the conflict zone was not displaced, unlike the ethnic Georgian population under the Russian occupation. The only village that sustained severe damage was the village of Khetagurovo due to the location of substantial amounts of military equipment and forces around the village. After Government forces seized Khetagurovo, there was no cruel or degrading treatment of the civilian population, as documented by Human Rights Watch (Annex 11).
Russian Attacks & Invasion Outside the Conflict Zone
Ethnic Cleansing of Georgian Villages

Beginning on August 8 at 09:45, Russian aviation bombed a series of civilian and military targets across Georgia, outside the zone of conflict in South Ossetia, damaging infrastructure and causing significant civilian casualties. (Annex 12) These targets include but are not limited to:
  1. Gori and surrounding villages (including civilian infrastructure)
  2. Marneuli airfield, central Georgia Vaziani airfield, central Georgia
  3. Kopitnari airfield, western Georgia
  4. Oni (civilian areas), western Georgia
  5. Poti port, western Georgia
  6. Baku-Supsa oil pipeline, central Georgia
  7. Anaklia, western Georgia
  8. Zugdidi, western Georgia
  9. Upper Abkhazia/Kodori Gorge, Abkhazia region
  10. Tbilisi (aircraft factory and civilian radar facility in Tbilisi airport) <
  11. Khelvachauri, Ajara region
  12. Shiraki, eastern Georgia
  13. Senaki airport and military base, western Georgia
  14. Kaspi, central Georgia Khashuri district villages, central Georgia
  15. Borjomi National Park, central Georgia.
International human rights groups have documented seeming targeting of civilian objects by the Russian regular troops. (Annex 11a).
The Russian Federation&#8217;s nationwide bombing campaign included the use of SS-26 &#8220;Iskander&#8221; short-range tactical missiles used against the Baku-Supsa oil pipeline. Russian forces also used short-range tactical missiles SS-21 &#8220;Tochka-U&#8221;on the cities of Poti and Gori. In the villages around the town of Gori, Russian forces used &#8220;Hurricane&#8221; missiles. Cluster bombs were used extensively in Gori and nearby villages, including Ruisi and Shindisi. (Annexes 12 and 13)
On August 10, the Russian navy landed in the port city of Ochamchire and launched an unprovoked attack in Upper Abkhazia/Kodori Gorge using artillery and massive air bombing. Until this point, there had been no hostilities in Abkhazia, Georgia. This attack began only after Georgian armed forces, located at the Senaki military base, were re-deployed eastward (August 9).
On August 12, Russian forces invaded the western Georgian town of Zugdidi and the strategic port of Poti.
Over 100 Georgian civilians are still being kept as hostages in inhumane conditions in the prison of Tskhinvali (Annex 14: Photo 1, 2 and 3).
Following the retreat of Georgian armed forces towards Tbilisi, until today the Russian armed forces and paramilitary groups conduct widespread atrocities, including the burning, looting, kidnapping, raping, and summary executions of Georgian civilians inside and outside the zone of conflict. Within the zone of conflict, entire villages of Eredvi, Avnevi, Nuli, Kurta, Achabeti, Tamarasheni, Kekhvi, and Disevi, are deliberately burned and destroyed, resulting in the ethnic cleansing of Georgians. These atrocities have been committed after r all military clashes in the area were over. Many of these events are confirmed in reports issued by international human rights organizations (Annex 7).
Currently the Russian troops continue to occupy significant parts of Georgia &#8211; Annex 15.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
RUSSIAN FORCES SETTING UP OCCUPATION ZONES IN GEORGIA
Vladimir Socor
Russian forces remaining in Georgia have switched from the role of invasion troops to that of occupation troops, seizing chunks of territory in Georgia’s interior as well as key logistical nodes and arteries. The quick and smooth switch from the invasion to the occupation mode, as well as its ready-to-use diplomatic cover, bespeaks advance planning at the military and political level in Moscow. The land grabs extend southward from South Ossetia and Abkhazia, deep inside Georgia, as military buffer zones.
The occupation zone adjacent to Abkhazia was never discussed as part of the French-brokered “armistice,” which pertains to the South Ossetia conflict. This fact demonstrates that Russia is acting in a purely unilateral fashion in Georgia, completely disregarding the French mediation, although using President Nicolas Sarkozy’s involvement as a fig leaf on Moscow’s unilateral actions.
The new occupation zones and demarcation lines were shown on detailed maps by Col.-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, Deputy Chief of Staff of Russia’s Armed Forces, briefing the Russian and international media in Moscow on August 22 and 23. The Russians refer to the new occupation zones as “vnutrigruzinskie,” meaning “in Georgia’s interior.” Sarkozy may now realize that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev deceived him by promising, most recently on August 19, that Russian troops would withdraw from all vnutrigruzinskie territories (Interfax, August 19).
The Russians are rapidly building up a system of military posts for the long term in Georgia’s interior. These posts number 37 in all, including 18 in the buffer zone near Ossetia and 19 in the buffer zone near Abkhazia. Labeled as “blokposty,” they involve more than checkpoints. Russian troops are already constructing fortifications at some of these points. According to Nogovitsyn, “because blokposty on the main roads and in populated localities are going to be permanent, they are being endowed with the necessary living quarters and technical facilities.” This plan reflects Russian intentions to occupy these territories on a long-term basis.
Further according to Nogovitsyn, Russia reserves “the right to increase the peacekeeping contingent if necessary” as well the extent of buffer zones: “We do not intend to consult with the Georgian leadership about the size of buffer zones.” Moreover, some of the troops that were concentrated in South Ossetia and Abkhazia from August 8 onward may stay there “as long as necessary” and “depending on additional security measures” that Russia may take (Interfax, RIA Novosti, August 22, 23).
Indeed, Russia can do all this without technically violating the Sarkozy-Medvedev “armistice.” Medvedev again deceived Sarkozy with the promise that Russia would only keep some 500 extra troops in a buffer zone near South Ossetia. Based on such promises, France helped Moscow foist the buffer-zone scheme on Georgia. On August 22 in the evening, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov reported to Medvedev in front of the cameras that Russian forces had completed their “pull-back” (otvod) and thus, the Russian side has fulfilled the agreements (Interfax, August 23). On this point as well, the Russians misled the French presidency by playing on the Russian words for pullout and pull-back (vyvod and outvod) (see EDM, August 22).
The buffer zone adjacent to South Ossetia is demarcated by a jagged line, expanding Russian military control by up to 20 kilometers inside Georgia, reaching close to the country’s geographical center. Russian troops and their North Caucasus and Cossack auxiliaries have driven out the Georgian population from South Ossetia (which was one-third Georgian-populated until August 10) and also from the newly created buffer zone (which was compactly Georgian-populated prior to this conflict). This new zone enlarges a Russian-controlled salient deep within the Georgian heartland, within easy striking distance of Tbilisi.
In the west, the buffer zone expands Russian military control by some 40 kilometers to the south and southeast of Abkhazia. The demarcation line is so drawn as to include the Senaki airfield, the Kulevi oil export terminal (Azerbaijani state-owned), and both entrances to Poti (Georgia’s main sea harbor), within the Russian-occupied zone. This zone encompasses possibly one half of the population of Samegrelo province (Mingrelia).
Russian forces in this area claim to act on the collective behalf of the CIS, extending the allegedly “CIS peacekeeping” operation from Abkhazia into the newly-created buffer zone. The other nine CIS member countries dare not disavow this gratuitous Russian claim, which purports to associate them with an invasion and occupation of another country’s territory. Russian troops fly both the Russian and the CIS flag at their posts. They have set up two such posts near Poti harbor: one controlling its northern entrance and the other located south of Poti, on Free Economic Zone land recently leased by the Georgian government to the investment authority from the United Arab Emirates, without having asked anyone’s permission.
The Russians have paralyzed Poti harbor by bombing its installations from the air, sinking with explosives at least three Georgian coastal guard and police cutters in the anchorage area, cutting the port’s highway link to the country’s interior, and blowing up a critical railroad bridge. They took these actions both before and during the French-brokered “armistice.” On August 23, Poti residents took part in organized mass demonstrations demanding, “Russian Occupiers Go Home.”
In Tbilisi, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has repeatedly told local and international media, “There will be no ‘buffer zones’. We will never live with ‘buffer zones.’ We’ll never allow anything like this” (August 21-23).

RUSSIA IS READY FOR A MAJOR CONFRONTATION WITH THE WEST
Pavel Felgenhauer
A well-orchestrated surge of nationalistic pride seems to be driving Russia into a major confrontation with the West over the invasion of Georgia. The Russian media is full of brutal abuse, aimed at opponents of the invasion. State-sponsored propaganda has implied that the West is not only supporting Georgia against Russia, but has sent mercenaries to the fight. It was reported that on August 10 in South Ossetia a "black U.S. citizen" was captured together with a group of Georgian special forces planning subversion. It was reported that a captured pilot of a Georgian Su-25 attack plane shot down over South Ossetia "could not speak Russian or Georgian" (Nezavisimoye Voyennoye Obozreniye, August 15). These reports have not been substantiated.
In a display of Cold War rhetoric, the Kremlin-controlled daily Izvestia has called the U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice a "war hawk" and "a single old skinny lady that likes to display her underwear during talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov." The daily called Rice "insane" and described her statements criticizing Russian actions as "colloquial diarrhea" (Izvestia, August 20). Lavrov has in turn publicly used heavy language, accusing NATO of bias and of trying to save the "criminal regime" in Tbilisi as a suspension of military cooperation was announced by both Moscow and the Alliance (Ìèíèñòåðñòâî èíîñòðàííûõ äåë Ðîññèéñêîé Ôåäåðàöèè, August 19).
Comments by leading Russian political and business leaders explain to the public that the West needs our oil and gas, that Russia may ignore a suspension of WTO entry or the exclusion from the G8 club of leading industrial democracies. However, presidential foreign policy aid Sergei Prikhodko has praised "the constructive dialogue" with the French President Nicolas Sarkozy on finding a solution to the crisis over South Ossetia (Izvestia, August 20; Newsru.com, August 24).
The explicit difference in the Kremlin's approach to critics lead by the U.S. and our traditional friends - France, Germany and Italy - may be an attempt to split the West and weaken any possible future punishment for invading Georgia. At the same time presidential adviser Gleb Pavlovsky has said in a radio interview that there is a "party of war" inside the Kremlin - a group of high officials that are pressing for a direct attack on Tbilisi to overthrow the Georgian government. Pavlovsky states the alleged "party of war" wants to use the conflict with Georgia to undermine President Dmitry Medvedev's plans of modernize Russia, that "they say we must go further than Tbilisi," apparently indicating possible plans of further military action to subdue other pro-Western Russian neighboring nations like Ukraine. Pavlovsky stated that by signing a ceasefire agreement brokered by Sarkozy, Medvedev has defeated the "party of war" (Ekho Moskvy, August 12).
There may indeed be intense arguments within the ruling top bureaucracy in Moscow on what to do next: To march our tanks on to Tbilisi, or use more subtle means. On August 22, the Kremlin announced "all Russian troops withdrawn from Georgia" (Interfax, August 22). Some Russian troops have apparently indeed been moved back to Russian territory, but the bulk has remained in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, while others are manning outposts and roadblocks deep inside Georgian territory within a self-proclaimed "security buffer zone." The Russian Defense Ministry has in fact proclaimed its right to deploy Russian troops in any part of Georgia "if the situation requires action" (RIA-Novosti, August 23).
It’s clear that Moscow and the West interpret Sarkozy's ceasefire deal differently. The parties of presumed "doves" and "hawks" may differ on means, but their end goal seems to be the same: the destruction of pro-Western Georgia and inclusion of what's left within Moscow's sphere of influence. As Russian troops continue the occupation, the Kremlin has announced it will not discuss the possible replacement of Russian troops by international observers or peacekeepers (Interfax, August 23).
On Monday, the Russian parliament is expected to call for the recognition of the sovereignty of Abkhazia and South Ossetia and the creation of a special tribunal to punish Georgian officials, including President Mikhail Saakashvili, whom Moscow has already declared to be a war criminal (RIA-Novosti, August 25). Recognition of Abkhaz and Ossetian sovereignty could help legalize Russian permanent military presence in Georgia.
A Moscow defense weekly connected to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's former KGB associates and published by the state corporation Rostekhnologiy has admitted that the invasion of Georgia was prepared well in advance. The troops that crossed the Georgian border on August 8 were concentrated in attack positions in full readiness for immediate action under the cover of military exercises Kavkaz-2008 that ended on August 2. Massive troop reinforcements were also ready to follow up the initial attack (VPK, August 20).
Russia invaded Georgia with no intention to retreat and our leaders seem to be ready to pay the price. Last week Russian foreign currency reserves have decreased by $16.4 billion as some $20 billion foreign investment has fled because of the war. Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin expressed optimism at a Cabinet meeting that the worst is over, but Putin replied by ordering, "To be prepared for further negative developments" (Kommersant, August 22). Surely Putin knows better.
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
South Ossetia 'emptied of Georgians' August 25, 2008 BBC NEWS
August 25, 2008
Russia is attempting to empty Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia of its ethnic Georgian population, the head of Europe's security body says.
Alexander Stubb, of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), said he had witnessed elderly people being transported in lorries.
Last week, it was reported that Russian troops were evacuating Georgians whose homes had been destroyed.
Witnesses said many left willingly as they had little left in South Ossetia.
Mr Stubb, who was in the Georgian town of Gori last week, said OSCE observers were now in South Ossetia trying to clarify the situation.
"Russian emergency troops brought in two lorries full of elderly people," he told the BBC.
"[They were] elderly Georgians from southern Ossetia who had been torn away from their homes - basically sitting there on the street with all their belongings.
"[Russian troops] are clearly trying to empty southern Ossetia of Georgians, which I don't think goes by any of the books that we deal with in international relations."
Before the current crisis, about 30% of the breakaway region's population was ethnic Georgian.
Meanwhile, a Red Cross spokesman in the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali said the authorities there were holding 89 Georgian civilians who were taken into custody to save them from being lynched after the initial Georgian attack on the town earlier this month.
He said the Moscow-backed authorities wanted to swap them for South Ossetians captured by Georgian troops.
 

medicineman

New Member
War with Russia? are you guys fucking crazy. They have a 3,000 ton guided missle cruiser cruising off the west coast with hydrogen warheads, 20+ nuclear subs with hydrogen warheads surrounding us. We are the worlds enemy, we have provided the weapons that fuel all the wars, we are the great Satan...... Do you think war with Russia will be like war on Iraq. War with Russia will be the end of your vacations anywhere. Can't you see that Russia is getting fed up with our imperialism. We are trying to surround Russia with our allies and drive them out of power. It will not work, they will fight back with everything they've got. War with Russia will be the beginning of the end!
 

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
Ah.. from the Georgian Daily- how about we get the reactions and opinions from the people IN the disputed regions... it is their 'freedom' we are threatening to goto war for right? If you recall, when Russia finally announced they were acknowledging the regions as independent the citizens of the regions were CELEBRATING.
 

HotNSexyMILF

Well-Known Member
War with Russia? are you guys fucking crazy. They have a 3,000 ton guided missle cruiser cruising off the west coast with hydrogen warheads, 20+ nuclear subs with hydrogen warheads surrounding us. We are the worlds enemy, we have provided the weapons that fuel all the wars, we are the great Satan...... Do you think war with Russia will be like war on Iraq. War with Russia will be the end of your vacations anywhere. Can't you see that Russia is getting fed up with our imperialism. We are trying to surround Russia with our allies and drive them out of power. It will not work, they will fight back with everything they've got. War with Russia will be the beginning of the end!
:clap::clap:

Your Obama boy is ready to goto war with Russia MED- talking about DRAFTS. :wall:
 

medicineman

New Member
the Kremlin-controlled daily Izvestia has called the U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice a "war hawk" and "a single old skinny lady that likes to display her underwear during talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov." The daily called Rice "insane" and described her statements criticizing Russian actions as "colloquial diarrhea"

Geeze, I get a woodie just thinking about it, NOT!
 
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