Let's talk serious SCROG

G

GreatwhiteIVXX

Member
profgrow said:
Try not to "weave" it makes it difficult to reposition the branch when you need to.
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Ok. No weaving. But can you start the plant flowering process and than work the plant through the SCROG? Or is it better to work the plant through the SCROG and than flower her??? The way I am thinking is to have the girls reach a few inches under the SCROG and then flowe them?? Would this be bad? Or would it matter how you did it?

This is going to be my first SCROG and just reading the most I can. Everyone seems to work the plants through the SCROG and fill it all up and than flower. But was wondering if it would work the way I want to? Or would there be any difference at all?
 
luv2grow

luv2grow

Well-Known Member
profgrow said:
I didn't mean to pee in your Cheerios about the bucket, its just that i want to help steer serious growers away from that product, it was invented by a farmer trying to get rid of his over-supply of compost, the buckets cost a couple cents to make and he charges 130 for the setup and 100 for a refill, at best they will bring the ppm in your box up to 500-700, just seems like a ripoff when you think a regulator and tank cost the same over a 6 month time frame but you only have to buy them once.
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haha my Wheaties r fine. But im confused. u say its cheaper to run a tank setup. I dont think thats the case. Regulator is 150,bottle 100 and then u can get into all the cool environmental controls150-1000 plus refilling the bottle every month. Or u could rent the bottle. Still adds up. Bucket can work for some people. 500-700 ppm is more than what i had. Anyone know where to get the glass for the regulator? My broke in a move. I will be switching back to a tank setup when i run both rooms. But for now i just need some kinda co2 running. Again Thanks for the input!
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
you don't need a glass for the regulator...or did you bust the flow meter? your pretty SOL then, maybe e-bay.

At any rate, the proper way to do a cost benefit analysis is of Co2 is the cost of not doing it right compared to the cost of doing it right.

Assume a non co2 yield of 16 ounces. Then you add co2 which has been shown to be able to increase yields by 40%....

bucket = 1.6 oz additional bud (10% increase @ $300/oz)- $150 co2 bucket= $480-$150 = net cost = +$330

tank and controller = 5.6 oz additional bud (35% increase) - $700 set up = v$1680 - $700 = net cost +$1180

and that is PER HARVEST.

Now you look at me.. 12 plants with co2 yielding an additional 2 oz per plant. that's 24 oz of additional bud per harvest for the, I dunno $700-800 I spent on a co2 system. ummm yeah.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
In general I agree with Legally (shocker) I will say this, the up front cost of a cO2 tank and regulator is daunting but just a tank and regulator is similar in cost to 6 months of using the bucket (assuming you buy a refill after the first 3 months). A regulator and tank are about 250 all told, the environmental controls can come later, most smaller growers just have the fans and reg on a timer, fans off 3 times a day for 15-30 min at a time, regulator open. This will not give you consistent 1500 ppm but will provide much more than a bucket.

After saying all this, I again, don't use a regulator or a bucket. I have gotten away with a growler topped with a co2 "burper" (bought at a local beer brewing store) hooked to a hose that i run to my plants. This setup costs about 12 dollars including a couple weeks worth of yeast, it produces the same amount of co2 as a bucket and costs a ton less. I guess what I'm getting to is; a regulator and tank is the best way to go, if you cannot afford them using a bucket system is, in the long run, more expensive and less effective.
If cost is the issue use yeast, if dropping a couple hundred bucks is in your budget go with the regulator.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
GreatwhiteIVXX said:
Ok. No weaving. But can you start the plant flowering process and than work the plant through the SCROG? Or is it better to work the plant through the SCROG and than flower her??? The way I am thinking is to have the girls reach a few inches under the SCROG and then flowe them?? Would this be bad? Or would it matter how you did it?

This is going to be my first SCROG and just reading the most I can. Everyone seems to work the plants through the SCROG and fill it all up and than flower. But was wondering if it would work the way I want to? Or would there be any difference at all?
Click to expand...
I would go back and read the thread, this has been covered. I give you this in short, Don't start to flower unless you are well established (60-80% full) or you will end up with buds growing under the screen = immature trichomes = smaller yields.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
legallyflying said:
you don't need a glass for the regulator...or did you bust the flow meter? your pretty SOL then, maybe e-bay.

At any rate, the proper way to do a cost benefit analysis is of Co2 is the cost of not doing it right compared to the cost of doing it right.

Assume a non co2 yield of 16 ounces. Then you add co2 which has been shown to be able to increase yields by 40%....

bucket = 1.6 oz additional bud (10% increase @ $300/oz)- $150 co2 bucket= $480-$150 = net cost = +$330

tank and controller = 5.6 oz additional bud (35% increase) - $700 set up = v$1680 - $700 = net cost +$1180

and that is PER HARVEST.

Now you look at me.. 12 plants with co2 yielding an additional 2 oz per plant. that's 24 oz of additional bud per harvest for the, I dunno $700-800 I spent on a co2 system. ummm yeah.
Click to expand...
Quick math edit.

tank and controller = 5.6 oz additional bud (35% increase) - $700 set up = v$1680 - $700 = net cost +$980
 
luv2grow

luv2grow

Well-Known Member
good info and yeah the flow meter is busted... so new reg for me. I'll get there, just trying to help in a cheap way while keeping the cycle going.. Im dropping 200 a week on one room. Thats tuff on my budget at the moment. Is that 2-3 months just in one room or tent? Anyway i'll quit spamming the scrog thread lol
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
luv2grow said:
good info and yeah the flow meter is busted... so new reg for me. I'll get there, just trying to help in a cheap way while keeping the cycle going.. Im dropping 200 a week on one room. Thats tuff on my budget at the moment. Is that 2-3 months just in one room or tent? Anyway i'll quit spamming the scrog thread lol
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Lol, your not spamming, your keeping this dying thread alive!

2-3 months is an average of a 5x5x8 space.

I definitely understand budgets, I'm on one of the tightest grow budgets you can be on. I only charge my patient cost so any additions I make to my grow room have to be spaced out so they can afford the medicine I produce, thats why I cut every corner I possibly can. A 1000 dollar investment has to be stretched out over almost a year for my patient to be able to afford it (not including electricity/nutes) so you can imagine my operation grows super slowly.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
profgrow said:
Oh, also;

Refilling a tank costs maybe 20 dollars (20 lb tank) and should last 2-3 mo.
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I'm going to object to this statement, like really object.

My room is 11x7x7 A 20lb tank keeping the room at 1500 ppm (and I mean like within 20 PPM of 1500) for 12 hours a day will last you 5 days.

If anything, this statement goes to show you how drastically inaccurate just putting your co2 on a timer is. When I was using bottles and my cap XGC-1 the co2 was always clikcing on and off. it would just spurt then off, spurt, off , spurt, off. Something like once a minute if not more. Co2 disapates or is absorbed pretty damn quickly. much quicker than you think. I thought my room or hoods were leaking it would go away so fast but I shut the circulating fan off and did a smoke test, only found a couple tiny leaks. surely tighter than a tent.

if you have a 5x5x8 room plan on 3 tanks a month.. $60.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
legallyflying said:
I'm going to object to this statement, like really object.

My room is 11x7x7 A 20lb tank keeping the room at 1500 ppm (and I mean like within 20 PPM of 1500) for 12 hours a day will last you 5 days.

If anything, this statement goes to show you how drastically inaccurate just putting your co2 on a timer is. When I was using bottles and my cap XGC-1 the co2 was always clikcing on and off. it would just spurt then off, spurt, off , spurt, off. Something like once a minute if not more. Co2 disapates or is absorbed pretty damn quickly. much quicker than you think. I thought my room or hoods were leaking it would go away so fast but I shut the circulating fan off and did a smoke test, only found a couple tiny leaks. surely tighter than a tent.

if you have a 5x5x8 room plan on 3 tanks a month.. $60.
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Do you have a massive exhaust? my estimate was not taking into account a heavy duty exhaust system, rooms I have seen with minimal venting use considerably less co2.

I will admit I may be wrong, I'm mostly going off what other growers have stated before and a few smaller setups I have seen and spoken with the grower about.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Zero exhaust. Mini split for cooling. Others experienced similar rates. When I said I checked for leaks, I meant leaks in the room, not the tank or anything
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
Well, that turns what I knew on its head.

guess I have to run my own test before passing along info I have gathered. Off to the gas store!
 
thunderbay

thunderbay

Well-Known Member
trouble, trouble. I fed my girls with Floranova bloom, made sure my setup was light tight and damn temps shot up to above 90. I cannot cut holes for exhaust but I have an 8 inch fan pulling air out, a 6in pulling air in and 2 6in fans mounted above the lights and an osilating fan in the box but still getting temps like that, don't seem right. Got the feeling after all I've been through I'm gonna lose my girls unless there are some suggestions out there......
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
thunderbay said:
trouble, trouble. I fed my girls with Floranova bloom, made sure my setup was light tight and damn temps shot up to above 90. I cannot cut holes for exhaust but I have an 8 inch fan pulling air out, a 6in pulling air in and 2 6in fans mounted above the lights and an osilating fan in the box but still getting temps like that, don't seem right. Got the feeling after all I've been through I'm gonna lose my girls unless there are some suggestions out there......
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You can bring temps in a cab down by:

1. Lowering the temps in the room that houses the cab - a/c etc

2. Enlarging your in/outtakes

3. Getting a more powerful exhaust fan 200-400 cfm

4. All of the above.

If your hood is properly vented this can help a ton, I just went from a 100cfm on a 1k watt to a 400 cfm - the difference is about 5 degrees in my setup, went from 83-85 to 77-80.

In the short run, you can try Silica blast from Botanicare. I have heard it makes plants more resilient to "extreme conditions" but if you are running into 90 degree temps it wont save your trichomes, it will most likely just save your plant until you can get a better exhaust.

Temps are the most difficult part about cab growing, Most people opt for LED lighting when ventilation is an issue, I have used a 90 watt ufo to flower before and it wasn't great but I never had to worry about temps even with hours of zero air flow (I was a REAL noob back then) and I did get a harvest from it that I wasn't ashamed of.

Not to be redundant but ventilation is the key, a powerful blower may solve your problems.
 
thechemist310

thechemist310

Active Member
I never though I'd get so technical to consider a CO2 setup, but the more I dive in the more awesome this hobby is!

So, I thought the plant needed constant fresh air. Taking heat removal out of the equation, is the fresh air trully only to bring CO2 into the room? Basically, could you close a room completely off and just add CO2 if your temps were in check?

Thanks.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
The only time my room gets fresh air is when I open the door. Plants don't need "fresh air" which is around 80% nitrogen anyway. Then need co2 to photosynthesis and they need o2 to respire. If you don't know these words then you have some googling to do.

While co2 can help deal with high temps ( by getting rid of the first limiting factor as temperatures and chemical reaction rates increase) it is not however a panacea. I run around 85 and 1500 ppm until about the 5th week. Then it's down to the mid 70's for me. Denser buds, more trichs and greater smell. At 90 you just start off gassing all the terpenes.

So yeah, get those temps under control. One of the biggest growth factors, the easiest to control, yet... The one most often ignored.
 
Eternalghost

Eternalghost

Member
legallyflying said:
Well, fortunately I didn't have anyone to teach me how to grow buds so I didn't learn anything right or wrong. I just spend ALLOT of time researching and reading, like a FUCK load of time. There is soooo much bullshit to sift through that I rarely just take anyone's word for it. Well, there are a select few individuals that I completely trust on this website.

having a botany degree and a science background also never hurts. There is a limit to the degree of manipulation that will actually cause benefits. All of that weird lighting schedules and this and that have never really been shown to be of much use. Proper environmental conditions that steer the plant, strong lights, and solid nutrition is what yields the best results.

veg: high temps, high humidity, lots of co2, light nutes
early flower: moderate temps, lower humidity, lots of co2, strong but not burning nutes
foliar feed carbs EVERY WEEK during flower
Late flowering (4-6): lower temps (78) high co2, LOW humidity (<40%), strong nutes
Late late flowering (7-8) same temps and humidity, REALLY strong nutes... to limit water absorption and increase oil production. Raise the lights a little.
Flush, harvest, dry, sell.
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Foliar feed all thru flower? or just first 2 weeks? picked up cal carb few weeks ago, hydro guy sold me on it, he said to spray every 3 days in both veg and boom. Instructions say feed once a week. I have been using it in veg but only fed twice in bloom ( got nervous)
 
Eternalghost

Eternalghost

Member
profgrow said:
In general I agree with Legally (shocker) I will say this, the up front cost of a cO2 tank and regulator is daunting but just a tank and regulator is similar in cost to 6 months of using the bucket (assuming you buy a refill after the first 3 months). A regulator and tank are about 250 all told, the environmental controls can come later, most smaller growers just have the fans and reg on a timer, fans off 3 times a day for 15-30 min at a time, regulator open. This will not give you consistent 1500 ppm but will provide much more than a bucket.

After saying all this, I again, don't use a regulator or a bucket. I have gotten away with a growler topped with a co2 "burper" (bought at a local beer brewing store) hooked to a hose that i run to my plants. This setup costs about 12 dollars including a couple weeks worth of yeast, it produces the same amount of co2 as a bucket and costs a ton less. I guess what I'm getting to is; a regulator and tank is the best way to go, if you cannot afford them using a bucket system is, in the long run, more expensive and less effective.
If cost is the issue use yeast, if dropping a couple hundred bucks is in your budget go with the regulator.
Click to expand...
Hello, I been hanging around trying to make it through this thread, finally coming to the end. Question, I heard about this a while ago but never came across anyone who tried it. I actually brew my own beer (acquired taste) What exactly do you do to get the co2 to your plants? I use a 5 gal fermentation bucket with a air lock on top. I heard the amount of co2 produced while "brewing" is no where near enough. better luck just burning a candle (minus the light) thanks in advance
EG
 
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