LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
you an me both.
pr0fesseur
Well-Known Member
Nah just late night and wrapping a gazillion presents...
you cant criticize something than use that very thing as proof of point. second some graphs are measured in luminious flux, others are measured in intensity...
you can t just measure the charts peaks and say "well its 25% percent 410nm etc.." because thats not a representation of the total energy of that given spectra... that completely IGNORES the energy output of that spectra... ITS A GRAPH you have to use the vertical and horizontal measurements..
those high peaks may be narrow but make up to 40% of the TOTAL ENERGY output...
organicbynature
Active Member
So "ITS A GRAPH you have to use the vertical and horizontal measurements.." but it doesn't matter if a peak is narrow, it still takes up to 40% of the total energy output? If you're not contradicting yourself then I just have no idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid. "Narrow" = description of it's horizontal presence...
"you can't just measure the charts peaks and say 'well its 25% percent 410nm etc..' because thats not a representation of the total energy of that given spectra" yet "those high peaks may be narrow but make up to 40% of the TOTAL ENERGY output..."
Again, if you're not contradicting yourself then I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why can't you look at a chart and "measure" the RELATIVE INTENSITY between different ranges of spectra by looking at the AREA under the curve for that range? As long as the y-axis scale is linear I don't see why this would be incorrect.
The Roseate graph literally shows you the percentages of light that it is emitting in difference spectra. Look at the 400-440 section - this sections contains one of the two highest peaks and one of the two second-highest peaks for the bulb, yet is only responsible for 15.5% of the bulb's output. Please explain this graph (previous page) according to your SPD-world-view.
Does anybody here understand pr0f's point? Can you explain it?
Endur0xX
Well-Known Member
I have been running my UVB lamp every other hour for an hour since the beginning of my grow, so 6hours a day with no apparent damage to the plant, in fact a shit loads of trich on the plant that gets the most. Why is everybody so careful with the UVB? mine is 125W reptile lamp so it's not like I have a weak UVB light.
I would say don't put to much in to the graph. I dought any of them are vary accurate. Also what about the bulbs that don't have a graph? There may be some relay good bulbs out there with no graph. I my self think the graph is bullshit. A sales pitch, if you no what I mean. These company's that make and sale the bulbs, will have a graph dune by the contract manufacturer, and that graph is false or for a one time run. Just how many times do you think the phosphorus, or the coating is bought from the same supplier? Well I tell you it is bought from the cheapest supplier. And that supplier goes out of business, then what?
What I am trying to say is the graphs are not the Gospel. And it appears that you guys think that it is.
The company that manufacture or the sealer will do what ever it takes to move the product. I call BS to the graphs.
If take 3 red suns put them in a machine that messieurs the par on a graph you will most likely get 3 different graphs. So don't put to much Faith in the graph on the box.
What I am trying to say is the graphs are not the Gospel. And it appears that you guys think that it is.
The company that manufacture or the sealer will do what ever it takes to move the product. I call BS to the graphs.
If take 3 red suns put them in a machine that messieurs the par on a graph you will most likely get 3 different graphs. So don't put to much Faith in the graph on the box.
Undercover Cop
Active Member
I hope we've had a nice holliday and got some rest, and arent so snippy now. I understand that some actually do attack you/your theories so Im not bothered if you get stuck in defensive mode. Ill give up that those are some good points, not entirely wrong, but Id still argue that there is a balance between the intensity of a specific freq and overall coverage throughout a wavelength range.
regardless, My main thought right now is finding bulbs with suitable red output so we can get really start to compare with a high watt HID. You keep mentioning the Fiji purp (and Im not really knocking them either) but do we really know the red is useable or is it like the Coral Wave which looks nice and purple but has little PAR usable red. who knows? lets find out
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I am searching for answers. Will post here, as I find links that might clear the air, so look for Edits.
Best article so far
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/sj/index.php#0Another artifact of using the CCT arises from the fact that a single number is once again being used to characterize the SPD of the lamp. It is very possible that two very different spectral power density functions can have the same CCT, as shown in the Figure 7 below (I TRIED COPYING URL & IMAGE, BUT NEITHER WORKS. SCROLL DOWN IN THE ARTICLE TO SEE Light sources with different spectral distributions but with the same CCT are called metameric light sources.
Spectral power distribution of two metameric light sources:
Figure 7: The SPD on the left is that of an incandescent lamp with a CCT of 2856 K. The SPD on the right is of a red, green and blue LED mixed spectrum that is metameric with the incandescent lamp.
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Best article so far
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/sj/index.php#0Another artifact of using the CCT arises from the fact that a single number is once again being used to characterize the SPD of the lamp. It is very possible that two very different spectral power density functions can have the same CCT, as shown in the Figure 7 below (I TRIED COPYING URL & IMAGE, BUT NEITHER WORKS. SCROLL DOWN IN THE ARTICLE TO SEE Light sources with different spectral distributions but with the same CCT are called metameric light sources.
Spectral power distribution of two metameric light sources:
Figure 7: The SPD on the left is that of an incandescent lamp with a CCT of 2856 K. The SPD on the right is of a red, green and blue LED mixed spectrum that is metameric with the incandescent lamp.
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mipainpatient
Active Member
Love the thread guys, been quietly watching for quite some time. Prof, especially props on all the work, but others too, UCDWC, murshdawg, all you guys are a real inspiration. Here is a late christmas gift from me:
CLEARANCE ON CORAL AND REEF WAVE BULBS $9.99 (free shipping over $49 and no extra ship for some reason too)
coral:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13821+23587&pcatid=23587
reef:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13821+21451&pcatid=21451
I like them both for different reasons and was pretty sure I'd seen others feeling the same way,
sorry if someone already posted this but it is the cheapest I've seen and I've been looking for months.
Buds of luck to all of you and happy upcoming new year. Maybe if I have time I'll post again later with some really really interesting academic studies I found regarding cryptochrome.
Peace,
MPP
p.s. just re-read undercover's post at the top of the page, love your grows btw man. I recently uncovered a study linking far-red wavelengths (700-1000 nm) and over all PAR adsorption. It seems the ratio of this range to "PAR" (referring to 400-700nm range as PAR) determines the rate of adsorption. So yes it is useful if not directly. I haven't had the time to read through the study line for line but I will add anything else I learn.
CLEARANCE ON CORAL AND REEF WAVE BULBS $9.99 (free shipping over $49 and no extra ship for some reason too)
coral:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13821+23587&pcatid=23587
reef:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13821+21451&pcatid=21451
I like them both for different reasons and was pretty sure I'd seen others feeling the same way,
sorry if someone already posted this but it is the cheapest I've seen and I've been looking for months.
Buds of luck to all of you and happy upcoming new year. Maybe if I have time I'll post again later with some really really interesting academic studies I found regarding cryptochrome.
Peace,
MPP
p.s. just re-read undercover's post at the top of the page, love your grows btw man. I recently uncovered a study linking far-red wavelengths (700-1000 nm) and over all PAR adsorption. It seems the ratio of this range to "PAR" (referring to 400-700nm range as PAR) determines the rate of adsorption. So yes it is useful if not directly. I haven't had the time to read through the study line for line but I will add anything else I learn.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
these are 24" bulbs
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Petmountain.com has the same price, 48" 54w. Free shipping over 49$
overTHEman
Active Member
The coral waves seem like a good bulb as an early bud stimulator and blue for the next flowering. Is the overal consensus that it is a quality bulb?
Week 5
Trichomes are starting to develop and stretch has stopped. Still fighting the phosphorus burn.
On the Fiji Purples; WHO KNOWS. It's a bulb that will make light and grow plants. So are the coral waves. And the red suns, colormaxes, super blues, and 6,500k daylight. This incessant discussion of whether or not the Fiji Purple is the "ultimate bulb" or if it "can be trusted" is pretty silly. This thread should keep to its intended nature of experimentation.
So make a plan, tell us about it and be detailed. Get your bulbs, stick to the plan, and show us the results. We would love to see what happens - success or failure. The only way the efficacy of any of these bulbs will be determined is through repeated experimentation.
"Graphs are not the gospel." Ahmen falcon223.
Happy growing.
Week 5
Trichomes are starting to develop and stretch has stopped. Still fighting the phosphorus burn.
On the Fiji Purples; WHO KNOWS. It's a bulb that will make light and grow plants. So are the coral waves. And the red suns, colormaxes, super blues, and 6,500k daylight. This incessant discussion of whether or not the Fiji Purple is the "ultimate bulb" or if it "can be trusted" is pretty silly. This thread should keep to its intended nature of experimentation.
So make a plan, tell us about it and be detailed. Get your bulbs, stick to the plan, and show us the results. We would love to see what happens - success or failure. The only way the efficacy of any of these bulbs will be determined is through repeated experimentation.
"Graphs are not the gospel." Ahmen falcon223.
Happy growing.
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Im by no means slamming them and Ive heard nothing but good reviews about their performance and quality. Im just kinda peeved how KZ doesnt provide any info about their tubes. Im just really curious at this point. Ive been emailing them and their response I think that they just purchase their tubes from an outside manufacturer, and pay for the right to put their name on em... Im documenting my conversation with KZ in my journal and will post here when Im done (I dont want to clutter this thread with ALL my BS, I already post here too much lol) So far they just replied with a 3 sentence form letter with no answers to any of my questions... we'll see where it goes lol.
I have an interest in the red bulbs because its the middle of winter now and my temps are just under max, so in the summer when its 115 outside I wont be able run my HPS at all and I will have a T5 solo grow, I just want to find a good RED blend for flowering (without using Red Suns because to me they are SHIT!)
I think this all falls under the original intended nature of said experimentation.
I have an interest in the red bulbs because its the middle of winter now and my temps are just under max, so in the summer when its 115 outside I wont be able run my HPS at all and I will have a T5 solo grow, I just want to find a good RED blend for flowering (without using Red Suns because to me they are SHIT!)
I think this all falls under the original intended nature of said experimentation.
overTHEman
Active Member
Undercover Cop,
You are a great resource to this thread and have DONE great things here. I was speaking in general about this thread. It's hard to participate in discussions of "bests" when new in the room. Positivity and openmindedness will facilitate the success of this thread.
Regarding KZ, my correspondence with Thomas Pohl,
"Hello,
I would like to start by apologizing for this inquiry in English, my experience with the German language is very limited.
I have kept reef and coral marine aquariums since I was a young boy. The ritualistic, parental nature of this activity has centered me in times of toil and excited me in times of sadness. To care for a marine ecosystem and watch it grow and thrive has become so pervasive in my life, it is now a career path.
As a graduate student at **** State University working for the Marine and Aquatic Life department, I am studying the effect of particular lighting sources on coral growth in the context of reef restoration. The study is very involved and requires very particular statistics on the outcome of the experiment.
A brief overview of the study:
An involved view of bulbs/lighting sources as they relate to different stages of coral life from origin to mature growth. There is to be a control tank for each of the three forms of coral we will be using and a minimum of four experimental tanks per control. The tanks will be kept at the same specifications and only the lighting is to be changed. The students will use bulbs as they deem appropriate for use.
I have and currently do use your bulbs in my home reef. The Super Blue and Fiji Purple are two of my personal favorites. Though I do not have an emotional interest in seeing your bulbs outperform others, I would like to be able to include them in my study. My supervisor has indicated that the specifics of EACH bulb used must be available to the students for a final statistical comparison.
There are many brands we are considering; UVL, WavePoint, ReptiSun, Giesmann, to name a few. Since I have personally seen wonderful results with your bulbs, I would like to be able to include them as well.
However, since the spectral radiance charts for both the Super Blue and Fiji Purple are not available, the department will not allow the usage of either.
Here is my question: are the spectral radiance charts for your bulbs available for research/restoration purposes? If they are not available, are there bulbs with similar spectral output that could be used for comparison?
I am not asking for this information to be released to the public, I am in need for the purposes of this study.
Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Dankeschon,
*** ****
**** State University"
"Hi ***,
all of my products and also the tubes are the result of the practical
work with corals in my live, i work now 27 Jears on that. I make that
way with pulps. I speak with my producer what light i need , than i
get from every tube 8-10 different ones to test on my corals. That
what we sell is the best what we can produce in time. I hope that
answer is ok for you.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards
Thomas Pohl"
Only a nihilist could say no to reef-restoration.
...
My experience thus far with the red sun is nothing short of amazing. It's a great bulb - the available red spectrum is fundamentally unique and perfect for our use. If you can get your hands on some that work well, it might be worth your while to do so.
It's about experimentation, something that clearly doesn't scare you. Keep on growing and showing.
Thank you.
P.S. Your mini DWCoffee-buckets rock, any chance you have a pic of those plants to date?
You are a great resource to this thread and have DONE great things here. I was speaking in general about this thread. It's hard to participate in discussions of "bests" when new in the room. Positivity and openmindedness will facilitate the success of this thread.
Regarding KZ, my correspondence with Thomas Pohl,
"Hello,
I would like to start by apologizing for this inquiry in English, my experience with the German language is very limited.
I have kept reef and coral marine aquariums since I was a young boy. The ritualistic, parental nature of this activity has centered me in times of toil and excited me in times of sadness. To care for a marine ecosystem and watch it grow and thrive has become so pervasive in my life, it is now a career path.
As a graduate student at **** State University working for the Marine and Aquatic Life department, I am studying the effect of particular lighting sources on coral growth in the context of reef restoration. The study is very involved and requires very particular statistics on the outcome of the experiment.
A brief overview of the study:
An involved view of bulbs/lighting sources as they relate to different stages of coral life from origin to mature growth. There is to be a control tank for each of the three forms of coral we will be using and a minimum of four experimental tanks per control. The tanks will be kept at the same specifications and only the lighting is to be changed. The students will use bulbs as they deem appropriate for use.
I have and currently do use your bulbs in my home reef. The Super Blue and Fiji Purple are two of my personal favorites. Though I do not have an emotional interest in seeing your bulbs outperform others, I would like to be able to include them in my study. My supervisor has indicated that the specifics of EACH bulb used must be available to the students for a final statistical comparison.
There are many brands we are considering; UVL, WavePoint, ReptiSun, Giesmann, to name a few. Since I have personally seen wonderful results with your bulbs, I would like to be able to include them as well.
However, since the spectral radiance charts for both the Super Blue and Fiji Purple are not available, the department will not allow the usage of either.
Here is my question: are the spectral radiance charts for your bulbs available for research/restoration purposes? If they are not available, are there bulbs with similar spectral output that could be used for comparison?
I am not asking for this information to be released to the public, I am in need for the purposes of this study.
Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Dankeschon,
*** ****
**** State University"
"Hi ***,
all of my products and also the tubes are the result of the practical
work with corals in my live, i work now 27 Jears on that. I make that
way with pulps. I speak with my producer what light i need , than i
get from every tube 8-10 different ones to test on my corals. That
what we sell is the best what we can produce in time. I hope that
answer is ok for you.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards
Thomas Pohl"
Only a nihilist could say no to reef-restoration.
...
My experience thus far with the red sun is nothing short of amazing. It's a great bulb - the available red spectrum is fundamentally unique and perfect for our use. If you can get your hands on some that work well, it might be worth your while to do so.
It's about experimentation, something that clearly doesn't scare you. Keep on growing and showing.
Thank you.
P.S. Your mini DWCoffee-buckets rock, any chance you have a pic of those plants to date?
Undercover Cop
Active Member
overTHEman
wow, I can appreciate all of that. Im a sucker for compliments lol. I didnt think I was the only one that had contacted KZ, and I got the same response, only worded slightly better (someone proofread his form letter for him in english.) Im gonna try to push him to at least tell me if he can or cannot get a graph from the actual bulb maker. Ill post when Im done. I actually do like/love the Red Sun's, and they definately are unique (I only know of two others that are similar from Phillips and Sylvania but they dont match the red of the Red Suns) Im just still peeved about having 2of4 go out in a week, and am still waiting to hear if/when AS will send replacements for both. I plan to get the Fiji's when I get my next T5 fixture so Ill see first hand then
I appreciate all the contributions from everyone here!
Stay tuned, Im working on a DIY bubblebucket thread to document my method there, prob post tomorrow under DWC/Bubbleponics or DIY. Thanks again
<< had to kill these three males yesterday, now Im down to these two in flower and two in the veg box starting to sex ...one may be herm 
12 beans sprout and only 3 females?! fucking shitty cartel brick bagseeds 
View attachment 1957105
wow, I can appreciate all of that. Im a sucker for compliments lol. I didnt think I was the only one that had contacted KZ, and I got the same response, only worded slightly better (someone proofread his form letter for him in english.) Im gonna try to push him to at least tell me if he can or cannot get a graph from the actual bulb maker. Ill post when Im done. I actually do like/love the Red Sun's, and they definately are unique (I only know of two others that are similar from Phillips and Sylvania but they dont match the red of the Red Suns) Im just still peeved about having 2of4 go out in a week, and am still waiting to hear if/when AS will send replacements for both. I plan to get the Fiji's when I get my next T5 fixture so Ill see first hand then
I appreciate all the contributions from everyone here!
Stay tuned, Im working on a DIY bubblebucket thread to document my method there, prob post tomorrow under DWC/Bubbleponics or DIY. Thanks again
<< had to kill these three males yesterday, now Im down to these two in flower and two in the veg box starting to sex ...one may be herm 12 beans sprout and only 3 females?! fucking shitty cartel brick bagseeds View attachment 1957105
overTHEman
Active Member
Undercover Cop,
Looks great, love the nodal spacing and thick stem. I'll keep an eye out for that thread.
Looks great, love the nodal spacing and thick stem. I'll keep an eye out for that thread.