Layoffs coming...

Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
Yeah, I could have lied to you and said that I volunteer at a kitchen every Saturday, but I don't. The truth is, I left a rural area, not making shit for money looking to better.
I spent a good part of 2007 living out of my car, having just arrived to a new city. I climbed up out of it with much help from family, financially. Had they not been there I would have failed and not been able to succeed out here.
As I become more able to help, I will. Right now, I'm pretty proud of performing quality work for folks and supporting myself, as well as being able to employ a friend part time as a contract laborer. I could easily pick up someone else and pay them a little more than half what I am paying him. But we are doing quality work and we can both make some good money doing it.
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are you paying him the same amount you take for yourself? or are you "stealing" from the workers to line your bourgeois pockets?

if your employee does not recieve an equal share of the spoils then your entire diatribe against CEO pay is just hot air.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
Yeah, I could have lied to you and said that I volunteer at a kitchen every Saturday, but I don't. The truth is, I left a rural area, not making shit for money looking to better.
I spent a good part of 2007 living out of my car, having just arrived to a new city. I climbed up out of it with much help from family, financially. Had they not been there I would have failed and not been able to succeed out here. Not everyone has help like that. Don't get me wrong, i worked very hard to get to my modest situation right now. But without some help. There would have been hunger to go along with living out of a car.
As I become more able to help, I will. Right now, I'm pretty proud of performing quality work for folks and supporting myself, as well as being able to employ a friend part time as a contract laborer. I could easily pick up someone else and pay them a little more than half what I am paying him. But we are doing quality work and we can both make some good money doing it.
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If welfare is so great how come you didn't get any? And how is it possible you survived without it? I see you worked hard, relied on luck, perseverance education and experience. When did government come into the picture?

Perhaps people don't need government or welfare to succeed eh? Look in the mirror for the proof.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
are you paying him the same amount you take for yourself? or are you "stealing" from the workers to line your bourgeois pockets?

if your employee does not recieve an equal share of the spoils then your entire diatribe against CEO pay is just hot air.
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No, we are both making good money. With the job we are working on now (that I need to leave for soon) he is actually making a little more than I am. Well, more like a lot more.... But I really wanted to get this job, so I put in a more than competitive bid... it is a job that he is not experienced in and this is a great chance to get him up to pace with it.

We can make really good money in the spring with this specific job, assuming I can rely on him and he is trained. That's what I am taking care of now.

You have to understand though. It's just part of my perfectionism and personality. I am definitely wanting to make some money. But I get a boner for a job well done and lose sleep after a disappointment. I don't think that business owners need to go out and make less money than their employees to be a good business. I just wanted this job and have learned that investing in my employees is the smartest thing I can do.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
If welfare is so great how come you didn't get any? And how is it possible you survived without it? I see you worked hard, relied on luck, perseverance education and experience. When did government come into the picture?

Perhaps people don't need government or welfare to succeed eh? Look in the mirror for the proof.
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I had assistance... from my family... not everyone has that. As I said, I cannot imagine I would have made it to my modest existence now and without more situation that could have led me another way... hunger, car living, athletes foot (if you've ever been without a home, you would get the athletes foot thing)

Once again... you are blind to the situations that people find themselves in. You just, don't, get it. You just can't get it through your skull. Not everyone is lazy, not everyone has someone there for them, not everyone encounters luck. There are people who need help. And I am NOT talking about Bill Gates after dropping out of college.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
It looks to me like poverty was at double the rate before money started being spent on it. It also look like nearly every year that an increase is made the poverty level drops. There are people falling in and out you know.
Don't forget now that we are in the toughest economic times since the great depression and the poverty level is staying even. The spending is countering an increase.

When you have people working for minimum wage under a multi million dollar company, you are going to have poverty. There are not enough good paying jobs (and there never have been or will be) for every person to live above the poverty line. You fail to put a net under those people and you pay for it in other ways.

I ask again. Where do they train you guys? The LICS? That's my best guess...
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I don't know how you get that. The poverty level fluctuated between 10 and 15% since the mid 60's, while spending went up nine-fold. The only large drop was before they started the big spending on it. The recession during the Carter admin was worse than it is now. The number of food stamp recipients has doubled in the last four years and the poverty rate has increased by thirty something percent. I wonder if his graph is adjusted for inflation?
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
And if you are about to give me shit about having him work as a contract laborer rather than a part time employee.... i know. but we are not working hourly,he IS a contract laborer. However, I do want to do him better, and that begins January 1st. He will be an hourly employee and I can start paying in my share of his taxes. Part of that has also been a learning curve. I've just been figuring this out as I go. I'm not trained in business.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
If welfare is so great how come you didn't get any? And how is it possible you survived without it? I see you worked hard, relied on luck, perseverance education and experience. When did government come into the picture?

Perhaps people don't need government or welfare to succeed eh? Look in the mirror for the proof.
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And I didn't get welfare because I did not apply. I had family who was both able and happy to help. Again, not everyone has that.

My parents used WIC when were young. That was the extent of our Welfare use. We were lucky. My parents had good Union jobs and good genetics (healthy).
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Red1966 said:
You see a different graph than I do? Since 1967 the percentage in poverty has remained between 10 and 15% while spending has increased nine-fold.
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But then you need to factor in that one 1967 dollar was worth about $7. today. That is what makes the graph misleading imo. Adding the inflation adjustment flattens most of that trend, if admittedly not all. cn

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm
 
S

spandy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
are you paying him the same amount you take for yourself? or are you "stealing" from the workers to line your bourgeois pockets?

if your employee does not recieve an equal share of the spoils then your entire diatribe against CEO pay is just hot air.
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Wait, so I'm suppose to pay my employees the same as I pay myself?


LOL

As soon as they start paying the insurance, rent, parts bills and take an equal share in the potential for financial ruin if the business goes belly up, etc.

But as long as its my risk of going severly into debt, or getting sued, having to hear about an employees bullshit and why they don't want to work that day, etc, and their only risk is losing a job that they can just walk away from at any time because they don't have loans and agreements attaching them to the business and the debt that surrounds it, then I'm getting paid more like I always have. It was my ideas, my work ethic and determination and my sticking of my own neck while dragging my wife and kids along for the ride for years while I worked alone 80 hour a week trying to build a business from nothing but hopes and dreams and an empty commercial building. What they did was learned a trade and showed up one day wanting to get paid for the skills, which I pay them more than a fair rate, but I;ll be damned if they are getting paid the same as me considering the road they took and the lack of risk their position puts them in. I take more risk, I get paid more. Now if they were partners within the business, that would be different, but they aren't, they are my employees that I offer a wage up and they accept. If they want more, go start your own business and they can do payroll themselves with their own checking account.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
spandy said:
Wait, so I'm suppose to pay my employees the same as I pay myself?


LOL

As soon as they start paying the insurance, rent, parts bills and take an equal share in the potential for financial ruin if the business goes belly up, etc.

But as long as its my risk of going severly into debt, or getting sued, having to hear about an employees bullshit and why they don't want to work that day, etc, and their only risk is losing a job that they can just walk away from at any time because they don't have loans and agreements attaching them to the business and the debt that surrounds it, then I'm getting paid more like I always have. It was my ideas, my work ethic and determination and my sticking of my own neck while dragging my wife and kids along for the ride for years while I worked alone 80 hour a week trying to build a business from nothing but hopes and dreams and an empty commercial building. What they did was learned a trade and showed up one day wanting to get paid for the skills, which I pay them more than a fair rate, but I;ll be damned if they are getting paid the same as me.
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No, No, No. I explained the situation. I explained why it is currently like that and that I do not believe that is something people need to do. For my situation, right now, it is beneficial to me both for my mind and pocket book (future).

...Back up your pull string...
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
I had assistance... from my family... not everyone has that. As I said, I cannot imagine I would have made it to my modest existence now and without more situation that could have led me another way... hunger, car living, athletes foot (if you've ever been without a home, you would get the athletes foot thing)

Once again... you are blind to the situations that people find themselves in. You just, don't, get it. You just can't get it through your skull. Not everyone is lazy, not everyone has someone there for them, not everyone encounters luck. There are people who need help. And I am NOT talking about Bill Gates after dropping out of college.
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Thats why they created charities, thrift stores and even churches. I see no reason for government to get involved and steal from me to pay someone else who has hit hard times.

I could lose all my property and still be fine, I saved for a rainy day. If you see a person on welfare drinking a Coke, then he too could be saving for a rainy day. You know how many cokes I gave up to afford my first car?
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
So when a tool breaks, or machine goes out, are the employees going to pony up their share to pay for it?
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Somewhat dissenting opinion. Politicians have as their singular goal "becoming an elected official". Should they succeed, their singular duty is to serve and represent the constituents. cn
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You would think so, but it turns out their singular duty is to get RE-elected. You're a smart guy, you know this.
 
S

spandy

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
But those trillions did little to treat the cause of poverty. It could have been spent much more wisely IMO.
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I agree, welfare is no different than just handing a man a fish. When are we gonna teach them to fish for themselves?
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
free money from gov should ahve reward and balance system , if progress is not made then benifits turn into literal needs no cash . .idk its really not hard if you actually care about the impovershed to think up rational outcomes . . . . .start with the idea of end game they dont need it any more
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Thats why they created charities, thrift stores and even churches. I see no reason for government to get involved and steal from me to pay someone else who has hit hard times.

I could lose all my property and still be fine, I saved for a rainy day. If you see a person on welfare drinking a Coke, then he too could be saving for a rainy day. You know how many cokes I gave up to afford my first car?
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I think your pull string buddy (Kelly4) put it best...

  • Bill gates could spend every last penny of his towards world poverty and it wouldn't begin to make a dent.​




 
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