Is Biden really that bad?

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Budley Doright

Budley Doright

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CANON_Grow said:
Why did you leave out "or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." that is one of the big concerns of that law? Being that the state curriculum doesn't teach about sexual orientation in third grade and under, certainly looks like a tool for removing people that don't conform to DeSantis's and conservative ideologies from the school system.

I'm pretty sure DeSantis saw "The Handmaid's Tale" and decided that is what he wants, and is well on his way in creating that.
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That’s exactly what it’s for, no discussion of LBGQT. By grade 3 many kids have seen same sex couples, trans people. Why not be able to discuss and teach acceptance….. oh right, never mind, my bad :o!
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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CANON_Grow said:
Why did you leave out "or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." that is one of the big concerns of that law? Being that the state curriculum doesn't teach about sexual orientation in third grade and under, certainly looks like a tool for removing people that don't conform to DeSantis's and conservative ideologies from the school system.

I'm pretty sure DeSantis saw "The Handmaid's Tale" and decided that is what he wants, and is well on his way in creating that.
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I was paraphrasing, and I think what you quoted would be encompassed within my statement. I'm curious how what you quoted would be deemed specific to homosexuality vs heterosexuality. It seems to me that neither one is age appropriate for those 3rd grade or under. While they may not formally teach such a curriculum, perhaps they are attempting to curb such discussions outside of such curriculum per se.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
Why did you leave out "or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." that is one of the big concerns of that law? Being that the state curriculum doesn't teach about sexual orientation in third grade and under, certainly looks like a tool for removing people that don't conform to DeSantis's and conservative ideologies from the school system.
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So wait.. Are you saying that you feel this clause in the law could be used to prohibit conversations related to sexual orientation with those above grade 3, because it would be deemed to be "not age appropriate"? I guess that could be an issue, and would be something which the courts might need to determine what "age appropriateness" is.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I was paraphrasing, and I think what you quoted would be encompassed within my statement. I'm curious how what you quoted would be deemed specific to homosexuality vs heterosexuality. It seems to me that neither one is age appropriate for those 3rd grade or under. While they may not formally teach such a curriculum, perhaps they are attempting to curb such discussions outside of such curriculum per se.
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So it should be illegal to discuss why Mary has two moms or dads and to say it’s ok that she does? I’m sure at that age or earlier kids are curious and it should be discussed. I see no issue. When does that conversation become acceptable? The law was specifically for LGBQT discussions and it was not a big secret that there was a unfounded fear of “grooming” behind it.
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
So wait.. Are you saying that you feel this clause in the law could be used to prohibit conversations related to sexual orientation with those above grade 3, because it would be deemed to be "not age appropriate"? I guess that could be an issue, and would be something which the courts might need to determine what "age appropriateness" is.
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That's correct, the way the law is written is FUBAR and will be used by those opposed to discussion of homosexuality regardless of age, those who believe it goes against "God". For example, Ron Peri that DeSantis put on the Disney oversight board, believes birth control pills in the drinking water are making people gay, and that gay people are evil. DeSantis is not trying to protect children, he is using them to force a religious ideology.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
So it should be illegal to discuss why Mary has two moms or dads and to say it’s ok that she does? I’m sure at that age or earlier kids are curious and it should be discussed. I see no issue. When does that conversation become acceptable? The law was specifically for LGBQT discussions and it was not a big secret that there was a unfounded fear of “grooming” behind it.
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I see your point. I wonder how to separate the two issues here, in terms of writing a better law. I do think there is a real issue around grooming, even though it's also often overly exaggerated. As an example, I live in a very diverse area, in terms of sexual identity and orientation. My son has long hair and always has, simply because he likes it, but it has nothing to do with his gender identity. When a local GSA (Genders & Sexualities Alliances) Advisor who works in the local schools realized that he was a boy with long hair, the next thing you know she was inviting him to a LGBTQ+ club meeting, at just 10-years old. My kids are very aware of various orientations, know and are friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and I have no issue with talking to them about people's orientation differences, but I think to push a 10-year old towards questioning his own gender identity simply because he has long hair is going too far.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
That's correct, the way the law is written is FUBAR and will be used by those opposed to discussion of homosexuality regardless of age, those who believe it goes against "God". For example, Ron Peri that DeSantis put on the Disney oversight board, believes birth control pills in the drinking water are making people gay, and that gay people are evil. DeSantis is not trying to protect children, he is using them to force a religious ideology.
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Have you see it actually implemented that way, or is it just a concern that it may be?
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I see your point. I wonder how to separate the two issues here, in terms of writing a better law. I do think there is a real issue around grooming, even though it's also often overly exaggerated. As an example, I live in a very diverse area, in terms of sexual identity and orientation. My son has long hair and always has, simply because he likes it, but it has nothing to do with his gender identity. When a local GSA (Genders & Sexualities Alliances) Advisor who works in the local schools realized that he was a boy with long hair, the next thing you know she was inviting him to a LGBTQ+ club meeting, at just 10-years old. My kids are very aware of various orientations, know and are friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and I have no issue with talking to them about people's orientation differences, but I think to push a 10-year old towards questioning his own gender identity simply because he has long hair is going too far.
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I fully agree with your assessment that nobody should be pushing anyone, and especially a 10 year old towards questioning their own gender identity. What that advisor did was not fair to your son, or to you as a parent; and if that advisor was doing it because of the long hair, should be made aware of their prejudice.

Forcing someone to discuss an issue they are not comfortable discussing, especially younger children, is wrong. Not allowing discussion about the topic if students bring the question up or acknowledging it exists is also wrong.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I see your point. I wonder how to separate the two issues here, in terms of writing a better law. I do think there is a real issue around grooming, even though it's also often overly exaggerated. As an example, I live in a very diverse area, in terms of sexual identity and orientation. My son has long hair and always has, simply because he likes it, but it has nothing to do with his gender identity. When a local GSA (Genders & Sexualities Alliances) Advisor who works in the local schools realized that he was a boy with long hair, the next thing you know she was inviting him to a LGBTQ+ club meeting, at just 10-years old. My kids are very aware of various orientations, know and are friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and I have no issue with talking to them about people's orientation differences, but I think to push a 10-year old towards questioning his own gender identity simply because he has long hair is going too far.
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Is it wrong to allow him to question his identity and more to the subject at hand, should he not be able to ask and get educated and well informed answers. I think the way that I would have handled the invite was for both him and I to go and see what it was about, then you would be well informed to answer any questions he had. That to me was not “grooming”.
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Have you see it actually implemented that way, or is it just a concern that it may be?
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He did put Ron Peri on the oversight board, so he is implementing it. The concern with how the law was written was brought up and completely ignored. When the Taliban pledged to honour women's rights, I didn't need to actually see them not follow through on that statement to know it was bullshit. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, eat, shits, and flies like a duck - it's most likely a duck.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Is it wrong to allow him to question his identity and more to the subject at hand, should he not be able to ask and get educated and well informed answers. I think the way that I would have handled the invite was for both him and I to go and see what it was about, then you would be well informed to answer any questions he had. That to me was not “grooming”.
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It isn't wrong for him to question his identity, if that's how he feels. He doesn't have any questions about his identity however, it was someone else who had questions about his identity; an adult who is very proactively engaged as a GSA Advisor. If he does come to the point of wanting to question it, that's very different than actively suggesting that there is a question, and recruiting him to a LGBTQ+ group, simply based on his hair length. He's a very aware and intelligent kid, who's had multiple mentors from the LGBTQ+ community, and he has quite a bit of exposure to diversity already.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
He did put Ron Peri on the oversight board, so he is implementing it. The concern with how the law was written was brought up and completely ignored. When the Taliban pledged to honour women's rights, I didn't need to actually see them not follow through on that statement to know it was bullshit. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, eat, shits, and flies like a duck - it's most likely a duck.
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I don't know anything about him. Like I said, I don't really follow Florida politics much. I've been through Florida twice in my life, and frankly it seems like a pretty crazy-people place, on both sides of the aisle. I think it gets too hot and humid there and makes people nutty.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I see your point. I wonder how to separate the two issues here, in terms of writing a better law. I do think there is a real issue around grooming, even though it's also often overly exaggerated. As an example, I live in a very diverse area, in terms of sexual identity and orientation. My son has long hair and always has, simply because he likes it, but it has nothing to do with his gender identity. When a local GSA (Genders & Sexualities Alliances) Advisor who works in the local schools realized that he was a boy with long hair, the next thing you know she was inviting him to a LGBTQ+ club meeting, at just 10-years old. My kids are very aware of various orientations, know and are friends with people in the LGBTQ+ community, and I have no issue with talking to them about people's orientation differences, but I think to push a 10-year old towards questioning his own gender identity simply because he has long hair is going too far.
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I had a mullet at one point in school.
 
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