Help me choose a 4x4flowertent light

hybridway2

Amare Shill
Very good video, with good info. But it doesn't come close to convincing me that - in a shade avoiding plant like cannabis - far red reliably increases yield over simply adding more "white light". If we were on lettuceitup.org, this would be a different conversation. I'm ready and willing to be convinced, however. Just give me something compelling that's cannabis-specific.
I mean ive been showing the differences for a few yrs now but i understand. You need a direct SBS in one box with divided to see for yourself.
You're not familiar with The Bonsia effect?
You don't believe in the Emerson Effect, not to mention the other synergistic effects of combined nm's we still have no name for or full understanding?
Its the white leading the white around here is why so many refuse to believe the science or commonsense of it all.
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
Iirc chilledled hit 2.7 on their gen2 before the bar-8, on a independent sphere.

To be fair they measured the sum of photons outside the McCree curve.
Amare has yet to do this & has incorporated ir since day one.
Was reffering to the Bar-8 system as being one of the first HE Bar or Board design released as well as my sharing the info a yr early. Then, it was a chase for companies to match that even if they are not as popular as some others.
The second 2.7 was released, it became to standard to be or beat.
Between Amare & Fluence, they are the reason all these knockoffs are touting 2.7 when they are really 2.0-2.2.
Shane has HLG @ 2.0. Flat integration with a reflector box. But we have them @ 2.5 or 6 in a Sphere measuring all light, not just whats hitting the plant.
I have also brought up the differences in layout. Obviously the coverage is different which also effects the affects of plant growth. That makes a tight knit board light like a 288 fixture need 3.0 umol/j in order to keep up with the growth of a 2.5, properly enhanced Bar-light. Unless you run x9 over a 4x4 @ a low current. Or x6 with x2 Sabers in the middle. Still, no ir , 470 or UV unless purchasing supplemental strips that cannot blend as needed for optimal spectral efficiency.
I see spread out plants, reaching for every direction, inners getting allot more light then i see using the Elite which is comparable in size to the 550, no?
I see the added reds in their proportional layout causing lowers to climb to the top, increasing bud sites substantially.
I see swelling & elongation needed to make a real cola. I see more & faster root development with added reds & ir.
The bag appeal is one of the main reasons.
But you guys think im knocking HLG?
Why, am i not speaking the facts?
Did i not mention Stephens ambitions to own a Hemp farm that will allow him to do his own spectral analysis & research?
2 yrs from now once he's seen what I've been saying for 5 yrs now. Then he too will provide a similar spectrum I'm willing to bet.
Who knows, maybe he'll Unicorn Poop out something even better.
Till then, i only care to share my experiences using different fixtures when i can to help others & spread the truth.
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
I mean ive been showing the differences for a few yrs now but i understand. You need a direct SBS in one box with divided to see for yourself.
You're not familiar with The Bonsia effect?
You don't believe in the Emerson Effect, not to mention the other synergistic effects of combined nm's we still have no name for or full understanding?
Its the white leading the white around here is why so many refuse to believe the science or commonsense of it all.
I believe the practical value of the Emerson effect has been overstated.

Edit: Also... No offense, but the personal experience of one grower who is not in a tightly controlled lab setting, and who has yet to dial in his nutrients for overall plant health (which describes me as well, so that's not a slam), is not equivalent to proof.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
I mean ive been showing the differences for a few yrs now but i understand. You need a direct SBS in one box with divided to see for yourself.
You're not familiar with The Bonsia effect?
You don't believe in the Emerson Effect, not to mention the other synergistic effects of combined nm's we still have no name for or full understanding?
Its the white leading the white around here is why so many refuse to believe the science or commonsense of it all.
Its a good idea to keep the emmerson effect (increased photosynthetic response when using both red and far red in combination) and the effect of far red stimulating flower response separate. Emmerson doesnt work in higher intensities (iirc above 400ppfd, but not completely sure) where as adding far red to a spectrum without far red can increase the flower response at high levels of ppfd. To a grower both these things would look very similar: more flower. If your finishing times also went down its probably not emmerson, just that the addition of far red has increased the flower response.
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
Its a good idea to keep the emmerson effect (increased photosynthetic response when using both red and far red in combination) and the effect of far red stimulating flower response separate. Emmerson doesnt work in higher intensities (iirc above 400ppfd, but not completely sure) where as adding far red to a spectrum without far red can increase the flower response at high levels of ppfd. To a grower both these things would look very similar: more flower. If your finishing times also went down its probably not emmerson, just that the addition of far red has increased the flower response.
Happen to have a source on far red increasing flower mass? That's what I'm looking for to convince me that it's worth the fuss. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't, but my current (admittedly limited) understanding is that it'll give you more leaf growth, but that it doesn't necessarily equate to more flower growth. Happy to be wrong on this one!
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Happen to have a source on far red increasing flower mass? That's what I'm looking for to convince me that it's worth the fuss. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't, but my current (admittedly limited) understanding is that it'll give you more leaf growth, but that it doesn't necessarily equate to more flower growth. Happy to be wrong on this one!
Sorry but nothing more than anecdotal as for mass but its quite researched that it will promote flowering. Ive heard the same of 660 though, at least that it increased tricomes. Some old timers around here have stated you want more 630 than 660, that 630 was the "biomass red". Im not sure.
If youre on standard 3000k 80cri i would probably rec getting some far reds, even if only for end of day.
But remember you can get those far reds from a 90 cri spectrum aswell.
 
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hybridway2

Amare Shill
I guess we all have our opinions. Thing to watch for over the past 5 yrs & next 2 to come is, am i right? Will every company begin to incorporate a true full spectrum or continue to dilly dally around it?
I predict they will all seek a true Full spectrum from 280-800nm.
UVB has also been tested to work more effectively when setting on a shorter schedule then the main lighting. So, a few hours a day will help increase thc whereas it staying on full time in a lower dose to equal dli will cause the plant to build a resistance molecule which will in turn prevent then thc increases.
Not sure but i believe the right amount of UVA can stay on all day w/o causing a canceling effect but i have not seen testing in that yet.
Something to keep in mind is the synergistic affects created by using a true full spectrum. Stuff we know little about but I'm Confident exists do to millions of yrs under the sun.

Wanna hear something funny?
Next time i get a plant showing signs of LedDefficiency, I'm gonna do what my Dr. Did for me. Prescribe her some Vit-D to compensate for the lack of sun.
Laugh now but i also predict that to be added to our nutrients in the future.
Gotta try it before i talk further. Could kill the girl on contact but i doubt it.
Could be our remedy to purple stems that i feel are a artificial light sunburn type thing. Probably from lack of proper light induced Synergy.
 

Couch_Lock

Well-Known Member
I guess we all have our opinions. Thing to watch for over the past 5 yrs & next 2 to come is, am i right? Will every company begin to incorporate a true full spectrum or continue to dilly dally around it?
I predict they will all seek a true Full spectrum from 280-800nm.
UVB has also been tested to work more effectively when setting on a shorter schedule then the main lighting. So, a few hours a day will help increase thc whereas it staying on full time in a lower dose to equal dli will cause the plant to build a resistance molecule which will in turn prevent then thc increases.
Not sure but i believe the right amount of UVA can stay on all day w/o causing a canceling effect but i have not seen testing in that yet.
Something to keep in mind is the synergistic affects created by using a true full spectrum. Stuff we know little about but I'm Confident exists do to millions of yrs under the sun.

Wanna hear something funny?
Next time i get a plant showing signs of LedDefficiency, I'm gonna do what my Dr. Did for me. Prescribe her some Vit-D to compensate for the lack of sun.
Laugh now but i also predict that to be added to our nutrients in the future.
Gotta try it before i talk further. Could kill the girl on contact but i doubt it.
Could be our remedy to purple stems that i feel are a artificial light sunburn type thing. Probably from lack of proper light induced Synergy.
I take 5000 IU of D3 daily, myself.
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
Happen to have a source on far red increasing flower mass? That's what I'm looking for to convince me that it's worth the fuss. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't, but my current (admittedly limited) understanding is that it'll give you more leaf growth, but that it doesn't necessarily equate to more flower growth. Happy to be wrong on this one!
Watch the Video i linked bra.
Aside from that i just showed & explained some differences on my Bar-8 thread i think it was.
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
Watch the Video i linked bra.
Aside from that i just showed & explained some differences on my Bar-8 thread i think it was.
I already watched the video you linked, and it did not indicate that far red would increase flower mass on a shade-avoiding plant.

The differences in your grows are not definitive or empirical.
 

JOE GROWS

Member
Pretty sure i stated at 660w somwhere. Unless i accidentally went of Mi-Gro's 2.0 for hlg in a reflector box. Still .6 or .7 is allot. Granted his flat - integration may depreciate Amares too.
But you can clearly see the difference between the 2, QB-550's vs a single Bar 8 in a 6x4.5. Although i don't own specifically the 550's i have one better & the Trinity which is now basically the Eco. So i have a clue dude. And a par meter showing this in my threads at various points.
Id like to see the Bar-8 in Shane's Box with his honest review too though to be fair.
Idk. 2.6 of a no ir spectrum (lost yield) & is that board or system?, W/ like 35% + less reds. Bar vs small, dense board distribution? What our plants see is what matters. Not the ceiling of a sphere. But that's another story.
Amare bar8 is 30% more efficient then the HLG and this means at 660W it will be 3.38 M/JOULE as that is 30% more efficient than HLG
 

hybridway2

Amare Shill
Amare bar8 is 30% more efficient then the HLG and this means at 660W it will be 3.38 M/JOULE as that is 30% more efficient than HLG
No, Closer to 2.8. I listed the ratings at different wattages i think.
They are probably close efficiency watt/watt, electricity. After taking uniformity & spectrum into account i would expect up to 30% higher yields and prettier buds. That translates to a 30% gain in gardening efficiency. But maybe not for everyone. Im speaking about myself.
A Par meter is all the sphere i need. Growing using both technologies is also all i need for anything i talk about to be conclusive enough for me. And incase some dont know, i take it pretty seriously.
See this light top left?
That was HLG's Bar-8 contender after spectrum adjustments.
Never went into production. Prob X2 the size of a 550 up to 680w i think. 20191212_011516.jpg
 
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Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
No, Closer to 2.8. I listed the ratings at different wattages i think.
They are probably close efficiency watt/watt, electricity. After taking uniformity & spectrum into account i would expect up to 30% higher yields and prettier buds. That translates to a 30% gain in gardening efficiency. But maybe not for everyone. Im speaking about myself.
A Par meter is all the sphere i need. Growing using both technologies is also all i need for anything i talk about to be conclusive enough for me. And incase some dont know, i take it pretty seriously.
See this light top left?
That was HLG's Bar-8 contender after spectrum adjustments.
Never went into production. Prob X2 the size of a 550 up to 680w i think. View attachment 4466041
Why haven't you fixed that dead cob?
 
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