Going from HPS to LED. Worth it?

Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Both got a 4x cxa 2590 cob fixture and several prefab area 51 lights and blurple lights, don't bother with the blurple anymore but I do use the cob fixture and area 51 lights to cover a 4x4 grow lab tent. Been using the area 51 lights about 2-3 years and the blurple ones I have had 3+ years.
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Yeah, I noticed an incredible difference when I replaced both my ViparSpectra V450s with my first Tasty T1 (CXB3590 3500k CD Bin.). This one COB outperformed both of my "450w" (206w) LED panels. Thoroughly impressed, and I've since let a family member borrow my panels and have two T1 fixtures run at 2150mA each by separate drivers in my closet.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
Yeah, I noticed an incredible difference when I replaced both my ViparSpectra V450s with my first Tasty T1 (CXB3590 3500k CD Bin.). This one COB outperformed both of my "450w" (206w) LED panels. Thoroughly impressed, and I've since let a family member borrow my panels.
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Still my 600w hps will light that 4x4 room from wall to wall, and these leds have gaps of missing coverage, I would need to spend over 2 grand to make the fixture that would replace my 600w hps.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3000

^^white light for the light

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3049

^^for my reds

that doesn't including wiring and frames, and my 600w hps was like 400$ and I got top end reflector, ballast and good bulb.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Still my 600w hps will light that 4x4 room from wall to wall, and these leds have gaps of missing coverage, I would need to spend over 2 grand to make the fixture that would replace my 600w hps.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3000

^^white light for the light

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3049

^^for my reds

that doesn't including wiring and frames, and my 600w hps was like 400$ and I got top end reflector, ballast and good bulb.
Click to expand...
I will probably get one more Tasty T1 just to round the shadows of my 4x2 closet out. I probably should look into something red for flower, but these 3500k 80CRI are working pretty well.
 
qballizhere

qballizhere

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Still my 600w hps will light that 4x4 room from wall to wall, and these leds have gaps of missing coverage, I would need to spend over 2 grand to make the fixture that would replace my 600w hps.

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3000

^^white light for the light

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3049

^^for my reds

that doesn't including wiring and frames, and my 600w hps was like 400$ and I got top end reflector, ballast and good bulb.
Click to expand...
Have a look at the citizen You dont need as many cobs for the same area
http://ce.citizen.co.jp/productse/info.php?no=107

With my flower room the difference between cree and citizen was to big to ignore. I need 48 citizen cobs 1818 @2.1a for a ppfd of 1100 If I went with cree 3590 i would need 64 leds for the same area for the same ppfd
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
qballizhere said:
Have a look at the citizen You dont need as many cobs for the same area
http://ce.citizen.co.jp/productse/info.php?no=107

With my flower room the difference between cree and citizen was to big to ignore. I need 48 citizen cobs 1818 @2.1a for a ppfd of 1100 If I went with cree 3590 i would need 64 leds for the same area for the same ppfd
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What are you talking about? A single top bin Cree CXB3590 driven at 2150mA gives off about 850 PPFD in a 2x2. I can achieve 1100 with both of mine in a 4x2 closet. After my third one, probably surpass it.
 
qballizhere

qballizhere

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
What are you talking about? A single top bin Cree CXB3590 driven at 2150mA gives off about 850 PPFD in a 2x2. I can achieve 1100 with both of mine in a 4x2 closet. After my third one, probably surpass it.
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First Im not in a 4x2 area each grow area is 3x8 and there is 4 in the room. To convert from hps to led using the cob calculator each 24 sq foot area needs 12 leds x4 =48 leds that is with citizen and cree needs 16
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
qballizhere said:
First Im not in a 4x2 area each grow area is 3x8 and there is 4 in the room. To convert from hps to led using the cob calculator each 24 sq foot area needs 12 leds x4 =48 leds that is with citizen and cree needs 16
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No way. For a 3x8? No way at all. I'm getting the best growth I have ever had using one emitter/driver per plant, plus cacti and stuff enjoying my side lighting. You are probably way overdoing the light you need. You shouldn't need THAT many COBs for 4 3x8 grow areas. Maybe 4-5 high amp COBs per room. Not 32-64. Where are you pulling that from? Especially with the clearly biased comparison between Citi and Cree.
 
qballizhere

qballizhere

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
No way. For a 3x8? No way at all. I'm getting the best growth I have ever had using one emitter/driver per plant, plus cacti and stuff enjoying my side lighting. You are probably way overdoing the light you need. You shouldn't need THAT many COBs for 4 3x8 grow areas. Maybe 4-5 high amp COBs per room. Not 32-64. Where are you pulling that from? Especially with the clearly biased comparison between Citi and Cree.
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the whole room is 13 x 16 The COB CALCULATOR
here is cree
CXB3590CD36V3500K 16 COBS @2.1A ON 5.88 PROFILE HEATSINK
24 SQ.FT. CANOPY 92% EFFICIENT DRIVER @10 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 1314.13
Cobs power watts: 1209
Total voltage forward: 576
Total lumens: 194722
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 541
Total PPF: 2515.65
PPFD based on canopy area: 1121.56
PAR watts per sq. ft.: 22.54
Cob efficiency: 49.71%
Power watts per sq. ft.: 50.38
Voltage forward per cob: 35.97
Lumens per watt: 161.06
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.27in/14/1.0in
Heatsink area per inch: 260.01 cm^2
Total heat watts: 608
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.65 / Estimated
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 281 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 94 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $1.41
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $47.81
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $71.46
Cost per cob: $47.62
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $1.74
Total cobs cost: $762
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $489
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $163

Here is citizen
Citizen.1818C4.3000K 12 COBS @2.1A ON 5.88 PROFILE HEATSINK
24 SQ.FT. CANOPY 92% EFFICIENT DRIVER @10 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 1479.35
Cobs power watts: 1361
Total voltage forward: 648
Total lumens: 187818
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 516
Total PPF: 2507.76
PPFD based on canopy area: 1124.72
PAR watts per sq.ft.: 21.5
Cob efficiency: 42.14%
Power watts per sq.ft.: 56.71
Voltage forward per cob: 54.0
Lumens per watt: 138.0
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.27in/14/1.0in
Heatsink area per inch: 260.01 cm^2
Total heat watts: 787
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.86 / 80CRI
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 363 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 121 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $0.75
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $53.76
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $80.38
Cost per cob: $32.08
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $1.74
Total cobs cost: $385
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $632
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $210
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
qballizhere said:
the whole room is 13 x 16 The COB CALCULATOR
here is cree
CXB3590CD36V3500K 16 COBS @2.1A ON 5.88 PROFILE HEATSINK
24 SQ.FT. CANOPY 92% EFFICIENT DRIVER @10 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 1314.13
Cobs power watts: 1209
Total voltage forward: 576
Total lumens: 194722
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 541
Total PPF: 2515.65
PPFD based on canopy area: 1121.56
PAR watts per sq. ft.: 22.54
Cob efficiency: 49.71%
Power watts per sq. ft.: 50.38
Voltage forward per cob: 35.97
Lumens per watt: 161.06
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.27in/14/1.0in
Heatsink area per inch: 260.01 cm^2
Total heat watts: 608
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.65 / Estimated
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 281 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 94 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $1.41
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $47.81
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $71.46
Cost per cob: $47.62
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $1.74
Total cobs cost: $762
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $489
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $163

Here is citizen
Citizen.1818C4.3000K 12 COBS @2.1A ON 5.88 PROFILE HEATSINK
24 SQ.FT. CANOPY 92% EFFICIENT DRIVER @10 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 1479.35
Cobs power watts: 1361
Total voltage forward: 648
Total lumens: 187818
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 516
Total PPF: 2507.76
PPFD based on canopy area: 1124.72
PAR watts per sq.ft.: 21.5
Cob efficiency: 42.14%
Power watts per sq.ft.: 56.71
Voltage forward per cob: 54.0
Lumens per watt: 138.0
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.27in/14/1.0in
Heatsink area per inch: 260.01 cm^2
Total heat watts: 787
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.86 / 80CRI
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 363 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 121 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $0.75
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $53.76
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $80.38
Cost per cob: $32.08
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $1.74
Total cobs cost: $385
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $632
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $210
Click to expand...
I guarantee you don't need 12-16 COBs per room. I could probably make 4-5 COBs per room that size work way too easily. I can tell you right now, you're wasting money, time, and energy putting that many COBs into one room.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Unless you're saying one COB can't even cover a single square foot? 12-16 in an 8x3? That doesn't make much sense. If that's your assertion, your Citizen 1818s don't hold up to Cree CXB3590s at all. Which I was pretty sure they were even competitors.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
I guarantee you don't need 12-16 COBs per room. I could probably make 4-5 COBs per room that size work way too easily. I can tell you right now, you're wasting money, time, and energy putting that many COBs into one room.
Click to expand...
It takes between 10-12 CXB3590 to cover a 4x4 that's 16 squared feet so should take more to cover 24 squared feet.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
It takes between 10-12 CXB3590 to cover a 4x4 that's 16 squared feet so should take more to cover 24 squared feet.
Click to expand...
I am only needing two to sufficiently care for 2 eventually large plants and 3 cacti in a 4x2. I definitely don't need that many for a 4x4. My plants are exponentially better-grown than they were under my LED panels. I use one 89w emitter/driver/fan fixture per plant.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
The Tasty T1-2100. Two of them. CXB3590 3500k CD bin. Meanwell LPF-90D-42.

http://www.tastyled.com/
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So that's 330 watts of light in a 2x4(half my 4x4 and more than half the watts my 600w hps runs), those are being pushed really hard, they aren't as effiencent as they could be and if you lower their output you will need more of them, optimally you should be using 3 run at lower wattage , it would be more optimal but cost a lot more.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
So that's 330 watts of light in a 2x4, those are being pushed really hard, they aren't as effiencent as they could be and if you lower their output you will need more of them, optimally you should be using 3 run at lower wattage , it would be more optimal but cost a lot more.
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For 89w, what do I care about efficiency? It's only running at 2150mA and rated for 3600? 3800? I get your point, though.
 
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