Go Ron ...

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute here am I reading this right???
No, you're not reading it right. Ron Paul is against federal government intervention into our lives. I sometimes wonder how so many people find this a difficult concept to comprehend. Perhaps we've been successfully indoctrinated.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I'd like to speak to the choice issue, as this is one point on which I disagree with RP, I do NOT believe that "life" begins at conception, because I, personally, do not value a clump of cells. I don't even value the zygote, or the embryo during those first 3 months of gestation. Yep, you read that right.

In any event, what many fail to understand is that within RP's paradigm the citizens of each state are free to decide how much "choice" they will allow a woman over her reproductive system. That's how I make peace with this fundamental disagreement between myself and RP. I also understand that as an OB/GYN he almost necessarily has a different viewpoint, I just wish that my boys' first pediatrician was still alive, he was STAUNCHLY pro-choice, STAUNCHLY. How would a pediatrician have a viewpoint almost diametrically opposed to the guy who only takes care of the birth mother? I don't know, but it fascinates me.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Ceestyle and other Paul haters. Just read the thread. I would implore you to read RP's new book. Not because I expect to sway your opinion to vote for him, but rather to gain an understanding of why he believes what he does, backed with research. It's short, if you are a slow reader, and it is very well written.

As far as the abortion issue, you are saying that you don't like a man because he believes based on his scientific and religious views that abortion is wrong, and yet he is willing to admit that the constitution givens the US gov no right to regulate it. I mean come on this guy should be your best ally on that issue. Why doesn't he believe the dept of education should exist? One the constitution doesn't provide for it, two because like every other gov run institution it is extremely inefficient. Check out how many school administrators it takes to run the NYC school system, then look at the catholic schools and how many they have. It is embarrasing. Obviously you were educated in a public school, based soully on your understanding of the civil war (mine you can tell from the poor spelling), perhaps read the People's History of the Civil War, it is available at your local library. Lincoln did not come to free the slaves he came to collect on debts owed (if we are not care China might do the same to us, yeah laugh, and then learn history it has happened over and over again) Not to mention that the history we are told to swallow doesn't require you to learn anything about the Native American's and their genocide, no really you can look up learning requirements by grade k-12. The requirements can all be stated in a 2 minute speech, which I have done before.

Now to further your understanding you should start at the begging of the book (The Revolution). This is where we learn how f***ed up our current gov is. Basically to make a long story short, your income is not yours. The gov takes what it demands and if you don't pay their demands they come for everything you own. Doesn't it seemed f***ed up to you that because I don't want to fund a housing project or contribute to gov aid to Africa (which messes up their economies) that the gov can come and take what I own (these being some of the most reasonable things our tax dollars fund). So why would I want to add to more inefficient programs that are basically contributing to the gov holding me up at gun point??????

It doesn't sound like you have ventured into his monetary policy beliefs, this is the next to last chapter, perhaps if you were to only read 1 chapter this should be it. I know this is a lot to ask, but hey maybe it will even help you refine your arguments. No one else is talking about it, and few have a better understanding of it. McCain looks F*c*ing dumbfounded by Paul's monetary statements during the debates. Haven't heard Obama talk about it either, it is too much of a real issue, at least he is for getting out of Iraq.

By the way I have figured out the liberal media's obsession with McCain during the early primaries. It geinous actually, get the dumbest most Bush like Rep selected. This way come november we will definately elect a Dem President.

My rant is over for the moment. Let me know if you need clarification on anything.
Peace
Yes I am saying I dont like a man because he believes abortion is wrong..

Capice...?

And second what the hell about the civil war, I didnt say squat about the civil war??

who are you talking to? That was the most obtruse rant I have ever heard!

Confused at best???
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Yes I am saying I dont like a man because he believes abortion is wrong..

Capice...?
I am pro-choice, yet Ron Paul will get my vote. Why? Because his convictions will not allow him to foist his "personal beliefs" ahead of his belief in the US Constitution. I challenge anyone to find another candidate that has a better voting record than he.
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
Yes I am saying I dont like a man because he believes abortion is wrong..

Capice...?

And second what the hell about the civil war, I didnt say squat about the civil war??

who are you talking to? That was the most obtruse rant I have ever heard!

Confused at best???
Basically income tax is unconstitutional and the 'Federal' Reserve is about as federal as Federal Express. The Fed Reserve is a privately owned company and THEY ARE THE ONES THAT PRINT OUR MONEY!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

The Fed gov't is a bunch of crooks, back in the 30's or so they stole the American publics wealth of gold in exchange for dollars. It was illegal to posses gold and would be arrested. They paid them roughly 20 dollars an ounce, and gold is now worth ~950 dollars an ounce. We no longer have have a gold standard and our money is only as valuable as the paper its printed on or the value that the people attribute to it.

The Money Masters - Part 1 of 2
The Money Masters - Part 2 of 2

Basically, what I'm saying is that big all powerful gov't is bad! Absolute power in the wrong hands means absolute corruption(conspiracies). RON PAUL is NOT the wrong hands, do some research and see what dirt you can come up with....................................... NOTHING!!! Ohh, sorry, he thinks that states should dictate their own abortion policies. Opps, he believes that law abiding people should own guns just in case they need to defend their selves. I guess RON PAUL is not electable for POTUS because of the latter two reasons:mrgreen:

:peace:
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
How would a pediatrician have a viewpoint almost diametrically opposed to the guy who only takes care of the birth mother?
I don't know darlin'. Maybe he's seen how a lot of those little babies turn out once they become adolescents? ;) :D
 

ceestyle

Well-Known Member
Ceestyle and other Paul haters.
Peace
I am not a "Paul hater". I understand Paul's views. I just don't happen to agree with them.

What you and others need to realize is that you are not smarter than everyone else, in that you happen to have a god-given understand for things, and the reason we disagree is that we don't "get it". I understand. I get it. I disagree.
 

ceestyle

Well-Known Member
Cee, hypothetically speaking what if the gov't wanted to join into the North American Union, change our currency to amero-dollars, and implant us with a Vchip.(watch this clip YouTube - NORTH AMERICAN UNION & VCHIP TRUTH )How would you defend yourself and your family from ppl with authority, guns and brute force? Hypothetically, if someone tried to implant a chip in me I would feel safer knowing I have guns and I know how to use them :D

I'm sure if you did a little research you would find that aprox 95%(or maybe more) of gun crimes come from people with illegal guns!! How would we have had the Revolutionary War if the Brits didn't allow us to bear arms?

RON PAUL IS THE MAN!!! WHOOOOHOOOOO..... I gave you a + rep Parker for being informed of RON PAUL!
Okay man. My point - if you had read my posts - is that the era of us being able to defend ourselves against the government is over.

As for gun control, I've already made this point as well, but if you want to make guns less available, you have to stop selling them at walmart. That would be a good start. Even if the guns are bought legally, if the original owner doesn't use them to perpetrate a crime, they're illegal.

People like you are the reason I don't usually frequent political forums. I'm out.
 

medicineman

New Member
I am not a "Paul hater". I understand Paul's views. I just don't happen to agree with them.

What you and others need to realize is that you are not smarter than everyone else, in that you happen to have a god-given understand for things, and the reason we disagree is that we don't "get it". I understand. I get it. I disagree.
Well said, I've argued this many times on this forum. I get Ron Paul, I just disagree with his privatization thing. In my opinion, Government should play a role in regulating industry. If there were ever a poster child for not privitizing government run entities, it is the prison system. Cut expenses and keep them full, that is the program. Our health care is another poster child against private medical care: 50,000,000 uninsured, 150,000,000 underinsured, and prices escalating by the second. ; Choice, have the medical procedure and lose the house or die. Seems like there is something wrong with this picture. Doesn't "promote the general welfare" include health care?
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
Well said, I've argued this many times on this forum. I get Ron Paul, I just disagree with his privatization thing. In my opinion, Government should play a role in regulating industry. If there were ever a poster child for not privitizing government run entities, it is the prison system. Cut expenses and keep them full, that is the program. Our health care is another poster child against private medical care: 50,000,000 uninsured, 150,000,000 underinsured, and prices escalating by the second. ; Choice, have the medical procedure and lose the house or die. Seems like there is something wrong with this picture. Doesn't "promote the general welfare" include health care?
Our health care is mainly government regulated. Our government is involved in about two-thirds of all health care spending, which includes, Medicaid, Medicare, as well as other programs. This causes a couple of things:
1. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care.
2. When government controls health care, all cost incentives are lost.

On top of that, concerning HMO act of 1973 the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. More government got the US of A into the high cost of healthcare mess. More government is not the answer.

Choice, have the medical procedure and lose the house or die. Seems like there is something wrong with this picture. Doesn't "promote the general welfare" include health care?
Here's a choice for you medicineman and it doesn't involve the government

Dr. Robert Berry opened a low-cost health clinic in rural Tennessee. His clinic does not accept insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, which allows Dr. Berry to treat patients without interference from third-party government bureaucrats or HMO administrators. (back in the day people paid cash for "regular" services and carried low cost "catastophy" insurance)

Dr Berry often charges just $35 for routine maladies, which is not much more than one’s insurance co-pay in other offices. His affordable prices enable low-income patients to see him before minor problems become serious, and unlike most doctors, Dr. Berry sees patients the same day on a walk-in basis. Yet beyond his low prices and quick appointments, Dr. Berry provides patients with excellent medical care.

His patients are largely low-income working people, who cannot afford health insurance but don’t necessarily qualify for state assistance. Some of his uninsured patients have been forced to visit hospital emergency rooms for non-emergency treatment because no doctor would see them. Others disliked the long waits and inferior treatment they endured at government clinics.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Our health care is mainly government regulated. Our government is involved in about two-thirds of all health care spending, which includes, Medicaid, Medicare, as well as other programs. This causes a couple of things:
1. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care.
2. When government controls health care, all cost incentives are lost.

On top of that, concerning HMO act of 1973 the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. More government got the US of A into the high cost of healthcare mess. More government is not the answer.



Here's a choice for you medicineman and it doesn't involve the government

Dr. Robert Berry opened a low-cost health clinic in rural Tennessee. His clinic does not accept insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, which allows Dr. Berry to treat patients without interference from third-party government bureaucrats or HMO administrators. (back in the day people paid cash for "regular" services and carried low cost "catastophy" insurance)

Dr Berry often charges just $35 for routine maladies, which is not much more than one’s insurance co-pay in other offices. His affordable prices enable low-income patients to see him before minor problems become serious, and unlike most doctors, Dr. Berry sees patients the same day on a walk-in basis. Yet beyond his low prices and quick appointments, Dr. Berry provides patients with excellent medical care.

His patients are largely low-income working people, who cannot afford health insurance but don’t necessarily qualify for state assistance. Some of his uninsured patients have been forced to visit hospital emergency rooms for non-emergency treatment because no doctor would see them. Others disliked the long waits and inferior treatment they endured at government clinics.
Thats sounds really nice, but what does he charge for a broken arm? or what about if you accidentally cut a couple fingers off with a power saw??

Normally things of that magnitude cost insurance companies tens of thousands... I doubt he's got a chart showing you can fix a broken leg for under 10k..

When I broke my leg, the insurance was billed buku $$$, and the re-habilitation plus ambulance, plus hospital stay..

TOTAL COST billed to insurance was just under 76K...

I would like to see what his cost is for that....
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Thats sounds really nice, but what does he charge for a broken arm? or what about if you accidentally cut a couple fingers off with a power saw??

Normally things of that magnitude cost insurance companies tens of thousands... I doubt he's got a chart showing you can fix a broken leg for under 10k..

When I broke my leg, the insurance was billed buku $$$, and the re-habilitation plus ambulance, plus hospital stay..

TOTAL COST billed to insurance was just under 76K...

I would like to see what his cost is for that....
And you don't see the rip-off artists involved in that?

DAMN!

$76K for a fucking run-of-the-mill broken leg??

Getting bitten by a more dangerous species of rattlesnake (different species use different types of venom) didn't even run that much, and they SERIOUSLY dosed me up with the CroFab. That shit runs $1200/vial, and upon admission, when the docs at Loma Linda told my ER doc they couldn't send me there for time constraints, they pumped up with 12 doses/vials, got another three over the next two days while in ICU. I spent a full week in ICU, and my total bill was a fraction of yours. One-third to get a little closer.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
I had a Two Grand Co-pay too...

Alot of the cost though of the 76k was the hospital stay, and the daily rehab.

It was a little more than a broken leg, they did surgery to replace a tendon in my knee with this artificial tendon dealy as well.

More than anything it was the Rehab and the surgery that cost the most...
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Much of that cost is artificially inflated. I guarantee you the physical therapist wasn't seeing much of what you were being charged. Where do those funds go? Mostly they're labeled as "administrative costs".

Parker, are you waiting to tell them about how RP himself practiced his medicine? I'm waiting for that one. :D
 

medicineman

New Member
Your copay and out of pocket with universal health care would be ZERO. Higher taxes for sure but the overall cost of medical would come down as soon as the profit was eliminated. Profit and health care seem like an oxymoron to me.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
Much of that cost is artificially inflated. I guarantee you the physical therapist wasn't seeing much of what you were being charged. Where do those funds go? Mostly they're labeled as "administrative costs".

Parker, are you waiting to tell them about how RP himself practiced his medicine? I'm waiting for that one. :D
He was a flight surgeon in the Air Force and an obstetrician. While an obstetrician he delivered over 4000 babies.
 
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