Forming a Pro-People Only Initiative for 2012 group

Dan Kone said:

Because more people will vote than comment. It's more accurate. Vocal minorities tend to be more present in the comments than in an actual vote. If this country was run by who ever spoke up the most then it would be run by Sarah Palin and Michelle Backmann. But just because those people and their supporters speak up the most doesn't mean they represent the will of the people. That's why we vote.

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Look I ran a poll to see if people are in favor of taking a safe first step.

What is your argument? Can it stand alone?
What point of polling are you sampling?

Since there are 10 choices there are 5 yes or no possibilities. If there are more than 5 aspects to the decision the voter has to make then the sampling is worthless since there are basically only 5 options to agree or disagree.

Think about what you want to ask. Is it something like "do you support this?" Or "Do you support that."

frame it so that the voter has a yes no maybe and none of the above.. Works for me.

If you are wanting to have people vote on which they like better then what I have proposed is simply a small paragraph.
If yours can boil down to a small paragraph the voter is more likely to read that page and vote then move on to the next bit of fun.

If it's 2 pages and the other is two pages then it's a vote on what they like better then it usually splits along member-popularity from what I know.

If you want to contrast and hold a vote then i will write a paragraph. I will exchange with you in email and when we are ready we will present the poll.
Otherwise it's a Kangaroo Court with all the drama and none of the purity of a poll.

let me know if you want a paragraph from me.

Ernst said:

Look I ran a poll to see if people are in favor of taking a safe first step.

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That poll doesn't accurately measure which one of our proposals people prefer.

Asking people if they support cannabis horticulture freedom or another version of prop 19 is framing the question in a way designed to get the answer you want.

This way the people see two distinct proposals both propositions put up by people on different sides so they aren't being framed by one side or the other so the people can choose which one they prefer. It's a real choice, your previous poll was a false choice.

We've already had several people step up and say they want to see this poll. There is no harm in doing it. Isn't the point of a ballot measure to express the will of the people? If those are your intentions you should be as interested as I am in finding out what the people truly prefer.

Now the question is, do you want to back what the people want, or are you just trying to push your own interests? If you're intentions are really to give the people the rights they want you should welcome this poll. We will both learn something by seeing the results and people's input/criticisms.

So are we good to go now? I'm ready.

My email is clear...
I suggest a 100 word limit for each of us.

The topic must be one we both choose and we can negotiate wording of each others 100 words.

Do you have a counter?

Ernst said:

My email is clear...
I suggest a 100 word limit for each of us.

The topic must be one we both choose and we can negotiate wording of each others 100 words.

Do you have a counter?

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Yeah, who cares about word limits? Neither of our proposals are extremely wordy, I'm not sure why a 100 word limit is helpful to either of us. Both our proposals clearly show two different legalization philosophies. There is no reason to be stalling or posturing. Let's just do this.

What we have now accomplishes the goal of figuring out what proposal the people prefer. I'm not sure how turning two reasonably good proposals into cheap rhetoric is helpful to either of us.

Come on, enough posturing. Is there anything in your proposal you'd like to change before we do this?

I do.. Take it or leave it. I am not in the mood today.
I am bending over backwards for you so either take it or leave it.
I owe you nothing.

Dan Kone said:

Yeah, who cares about word limits? Neither of our proposals are extremely wordy, I'm not sure why a 100 word limit is helpful to either of us. Both our proposals clearly show two different legalization philosophies. There is no reason to be stalling or posturing. Let's just do this.

What we have now accomplishes the goal of figuring out what proposal the people prefer. I'm not sure how turning two reasonably good proposals into cheap rhetoric is helpful to either of us.

Come on, enough posturing. Is there anything in your proposal you'd like to change before we do this?

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Can you see this Dan?

100 words each and we work on the format and present it in a uniform way together or it is just mental masturbation for you dude.

Email me already!

Ernst, it is not that hard just take sometime and focus. I agree on some of your points and i am able to renationalized with most of the others that i don't necessary agree on. just put it all in perspective in one area so that we can see why and how you are thinking.

(edit)
I am going to work on mine as well.

Ernst calm down and go smoke one...

Ernst said:

Can you see this Dan?

100 words each and we work on the format and present it in a uniform way together or it is just mental masturbation for you dude.

Email me already!

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Yes Ernest. I heard what you said the first time and like always, I addressed what you've said.

You responded back not by addressing what I said, but instead repeated yourself in bigger and bolder print. Interesting way of dealing with things.

As I've said, neither proposal is particularly wordy. They are both broken down to their most basic elements. If I break mine down even further I will lose my entire meaning and purpose of the proposal. Of course I think you understand that and that is why you're demanding a 100 word limit in bold print with absolutely no explanation of why you're demanding that.

Ernest, that is just posturing and attempting to frame the debate. Let's just put two honest proposals up there and see what the will of the people is.

Enough is enough. Let's just do this. No more posturing or stalling. If you'd like to change or alter your proposal in any way feel free to do so. I however will not alter my proposal, making it worse just so your proposal polls better.

If you want to change your proposal feel free, but I won't make mine worse just because you demand it in bold print.

I'll ask you again, do you have any changes you'd like to make to your proposal or are we ready to do this?

Yeah, he is getting a little ridiculous. I think he is smoking a little too much of the herb, lol.

Boonierat said:

Yeah, he is getting a little ridiculous. I think he is smoking a little too much of the herb, lol.

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I'm starting to think he's never going to cooperate with this because even he now understands that what he's representing is what he wants, not necessarily what the people want. Maybe it's time for me to put this in a different way.

Ernest - is there anything you want to change or add to your proposal before I just go ahead and run this poll? I really do want to make sure this accurately represents what you want to see in a legalization bill. But if you aren't going to cooperate because you are afraid what I'm proposing more accurately represents the wishes of the people, I'll go ahead and do this without you.

Ernest, I'm trying to be as fair as possible. I will ask you one final time. Is there anything you would like to change or add to your proposal?

I decline you invitation to a combined effort on the grounds of non-communication.

This is your charge. Your quest and not a cooperation even though I have humbled myself to accommodation in anticipation of further interaction.

You know what you are no friend.. Win whatever gets you off.

Good luck. The blessing of life is community you are not even friend here.

What do you need beggar?

I open the floor to 100 words. Prove that one cannot tell his true heart in 100 words and win honour.

Ernst said:

I open the floor to 100 words. Prove that one cannot tell his true heart in 100 words and win honour.

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I don't care about honor. I care about accurately measuring the will of the people. My proposal isn't wordy, but it requires a certain level of detail to show it's most basic function. You realize that of course and that is you intent on limiting it to 100 words. The fact that you've given no explanation for why you want it limited to the arbitrary number of 100 words and you haven't even denied that you're only demanding that to inhibit me from expressing my intent tells me everything I need to know.

Well guess what Ernest? I don't require your cooperation. I was only asking you to make sure what was proposed accurately expresses your intent because I want to make sure that is what we are accurately measuring. I've asked you 5 times now if I had done that, and you have not responded. I am now going to take that lack of response to mean that your intent has been accurately expressed. I will now run that poll whether you like it or not.

Define "The Will of the people" Dude this is a stream of consistences.

How can one get precision in 5 options? It's a poll in a forum.
Ya'know email would be better.

We have to agree before we are presenting a poll together. I agreed on polls.

so?? What say you?

Ernst said:

We have to agree before we are presenting a poll together. I agreed on polls.

so?? What say you?

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I had enough of your endless posturing, stalling, and attempts to frame the question in order to rig results.

As I said, I was asking for your cooperation in order to insure accuracy and hopefully build cooperation. However your cooperation was not a requirement. It became clear that you were never going to cooperate and if you did it would only be after conceding to posturing designed to frame the debate, so I went ahead and posted the poll myself. Now we will find out which type of legalization the people prefer.

The thread is here.

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/425350-version-legalization-do-you-prefer.html

Anyone is welcome to vote, comment, criticism, suggest changes, and submit their own proposals.

Whatever.. It's all in your head.

Ernst said:

Whatever.. It's all in your head.

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This sums up accurately most of Ernsts posts. Well said.

Boonierat said:

This sums up accurately most of his posts. Well said.

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please explain. (not trying to argue with you, but you seem like a fair person so I'm curious)

Lack of content.