Ernst
Well-Known Member
What would "wally-worlds of pot" be called? Commerce?
Forming a Pro-People Only Initiative for 2012 group
- Thread starter Ernst
- Start date
What would "wally-worlds of pot" be called? Commerce?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
What you have is very good. I've got a few suggestions that I think help make it more clear what it is you're proposing. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so if I've misinterpreted your intent, I apologize.
These are just suggestions meant to help clarify, not to change any of your meanings. If what I've wrote is not your meaning, then please ignore it. My only purpose for doing this is to insure we are accurately measuring the will of the people. Believe it or not, measuring the people's will really is my intent for doing all of this.
Here are my suggestions. Use them, ignore them, it's up to you.
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In order to simplify the issue of cannabis in California for the voter and to attract the largest number of yes voters I propose a common sense approach.
Since two efforts have been voted down that contained commerce language I propose that the efforts to legalize be divided into 3 or more separate efforts so that we can win one or more efforts in 2012.
Focus on getting personal cannabis legalization rights for the people first.
The first thing then is to legalize cannabis for the non-commercial use by the citizens of California.
That would include employment protections such as the right to not be fired for consuming cannabis as well as banning employers and potential employers from testing for cannabis use.
Horticulture rights for citizens, including the right to grow and breed as much cannabis and hemp as they feel necessary for their non-commercial use.
As well as legalizing non-commercial private trading between citizens.
Apply these rights to cannabis to everyone including medical. I don't see why medical people cannot gain ground too.
This will create an atmosphere in the State of California which will allow a transition for our communities and law enforcement.
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I left out the section of your proposal where you mention permits. This:
I need you to clarify as to what these permits allow and/or who would be getting the permits.
Once that is done, I think you've expressed your intent very well and we can do this.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I think you'll find a lot of people do make the distinction between Phillip Morris or Richard Lee putting up warehouses capable of producing half a billion dollars worth of cannabis per year and a mom and pop shop where members of the community can go and sell their extra cannabis on consignment. I really don't think many people object to small locally owned dispensaries. Guess we will find out soon.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
That's why we need a poll. Then we will know for sure if people want dispensaries at all or if they prefer legalized black market trading. Then we can be more certain.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate what the permits are for or who would be getting the permits? I'm not clear on what that is all about.
Are they for growing? Breeding? Trading? Possessing? If you can clarify this one point then we can do this.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Horticulture.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
I was a little confused but I realize that we are not crafting polls together, you are manufacturing a contest.
Poll is different from Contest.
Here is what poll means :
a sampling or collection of opinions on a subject, taken from either a selected or a random group of persons, as for the purpose of analysis.
You and I are not working on a poll together. Some how you have confused poll with contest.
I wanted to work on poll(s) with you but look we are not working together on polls at all. You are calling Contest a Poll. You are confused.
I'm sorry but it's true. So what you are doing isn't a poll it's a contest.
Prove me wrong.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Dan polls work like this.
We would pick a topic such as the color of cars,
If you were in favor of blue cars you would write a bit about why blue cars are the right choice.
I favor red cars so i write a blurb about red cars.
Since we are working together you and I go over it and agree that we are comfortable with each statement and we will have an idea of what the polling results mean because we worked together so the voter can form an opinion on the topic of what cars color and votes.
What is our alleged topic? "We" have no topic since you are not crafting a poll you are manufacturing a contest.
Do you understand?
We would pick a topic such as the color of cars,
If you were in favor of blue cars you would write a bit about why blue cars are the right choice.
I favor red cars so i write a blurb about red cars.
Since we are working together you and I go over it and agree that we are comfortable with each statement and we will have an idea of what the polling results mean because we worked together so the voter can form an opinion on the topic of what cars color and votes.
What is our alleged topic? "We" have no topic since you are not crafting a poll you are manufacturing a contest.
Do you understand?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Ok. Makes sense now. ty.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
My only intent is to gauge public opinion. I'm making an effort to make sure it's fair. The proof is that I'm trying to help you craft the language. I wouldn't be trying to help you if I was only concerned about winning.
I want one thing and one thing only. To measure what the people want in the most accurate way possible.
We disagree when it comes to the reasons prop 19 failed. It's important to me to find out for sure what people want when it comes to legalization.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Actually I'm working on my own horticulture activities. Outdoor I work in the afternoons, but indoor my lights are on a 7pm to 7 am light cycle. Sometimes that leads me to keep irregular hours. Yesterday was a very busy day outside so I was only able to come on at night. Basically, I'm running a collective with very little outside assistance doing most of the work myself. It gets difficult certain times of the year. April is one of those times.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
Oh, okay.. I try and keep up to date. I have some curiosity I'm working out. There is something afoot!
On polling why not just present your position and ask for input?
Present as many options as you can and see the stats. That is what I see the poll as. Using the poll feature just to keep score is a bit off don't you think?
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
In this case the subject matter is types of legalization instead of types of cars. Subject matter is different, process is the same.
100% agreed. This must be accurate with no attempts to frame each others proposals in an unfavorable way.
Basically I thought we'd have a poll giving people a choice to pick between proposal A or B. Then in the first two posts we both put up our proposals. Then after that we can explain our reasoning for the two proposals, give people a chance to ask questions, and then get feedback on parts of our proposals people like and dislike. We will both learn something about where we are on the right track or going in the wrong direction.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Because more people will vote than comment. It's more accurate. Vocal minorities tend to be more present in the comments than in an actual vote. If this country was run by who ever spoke up the most then it would be run by Sarah Palin and Michelle Backmann. But just because those people and their supporters speak up the most doesn't mean they represent the will of the people. That's why we vote.
Ernst
Well-Known Member
But that isn't a poll..
Put up your vision and see what people think. That is a poll.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
How does this look to you Ernest? The top one is yours, the bottom mine. If any thing in yours is inaccurate, not your intent, or you just feel like it could be worded more favorably, please make any changes you feel necessary.
Once these proposals are posted, we can post whatever reasoning we feel necessary or comments we have after that.
--------------Ernest-------------
1) In order to simplify the issue of cannabis in California for the voter and to attract the largest number of yes voters I propose a common sense approach.
2) Since two efforts have been voted down that contained commerce language I propose that the efforts to legalize be divided into 3 or more separate efforts so that we can win one or more efforts in 2012.
3) Focus on getting personal cannabis legalization rights for the people first.
4) The first thing then is to legalize cannabis for the non-commercial use by the citizens of California.
5) That would include employment protections such as the right to not be fired for consuming cannabis as well as banning employers and potential employers from testing for cannabis use.
6) Horticulture rights for citizens, including the right to grow and breed as much cannabis and hemp as they feel necessary for their non-commercial use.
As well as legalizing non-commercial private trading between citizens.
7) Apply these rights to cannabis to everyone including medical. I don't see why medical people cannot gain ground too.
8.) This will create an atmosphere in the State of California which will allow a transition for our communities and law enforcement.
9) I have stated that over sight is necessary and that a system of permits for people pursuing cannabis horticulture which can generate revenue for the State. I have stated that a central authority is better than 600 jurisdictions so I am in favor of that if in it's existence all citizens enjoy equal rights to the peaceful and lawful use of cannabis and it's related activities such as horticulture all up and down the State.
------------Dan Kone-------------
1) This is for the purposes of legalization the recreational use of cannabis. Medical laws are excluded from these regulations. Nothing supersedes a doctor's orders.
2) Allow all citizens of California to posses and grow cannabis for personal consumption. Legalize a grow area of 100sq ft, and possession of up to 8lbs at your home. Legalize possession of up to 1lb on your person.
3) Allow citizens of California 19 years old and up to have safe access to acquire, cultivate, and possess cannabis. Legalize dispensaries operating as a collective or cooperative either for profit or not-for-profit. Collectives and cooperatives may operate as store front dispensaries, delivery services, bakeries/cafes, or farmers markets but are not necessarily limited to those uses. Collectives are limited to one commercial location. No one may have a controlling share in more than one collective.
4) If your personal grow exceeds your personal requirements you may put it up for sale on consignment at the collective of your choice. (for legal purposes, it must be consignment sales so you're not operating an unlicensed business.)
5) Legalize and permit commercial growing. Permits will be granted through the state in a process similar to forming corporation where everyone can access them. Permit costs will remain below $5000. Commercial growing will be limited to 2k square feet per grow. One person can not hold more than one permit nor have a controlling share in multiple companies holding more than one permit.
6) Outlaw the taxation of medical cannabis. Tax recreational sales of cannabis at 9%. No further taxation through congress is permitted without an additional ballot measure where 2/3 of Callifornians agree to the tax.
7) All revenue created by the recreational cannabis tax will go directly to the local schools in that collective's county. Counties that do not allow or take measures to prevent collectives from opening will not receive tax revenue from cannabis. Counties that encourage collectives receive the greatest benefits.
8.) State and local government employees including law enforcement are prohibited from cooperating or sharing information with federal police in cannabis related cases.
Once these proposals are posted, we can post whatever reasoning we feel necessary or comments we have after that.
--------------Ernest-------------
1) In order to simplify the issue of cannabis in California for the voter and to attract the largest number of yes voters I propose a common sense approach.
2) Since two efforts have been voted down that contained commerce language I propose that the efforts to legalize be divided into 3 or more separate efforts so that we can win one or more efforts in 2012.
3) Focus on getting personal cannabis legalization rights for the people first.
4) The first thing then is to legalize cannabis for the non-commercial use by the citizens of California.
5) That would include employment protections such as the right to not be fired for consuming cannabis as well as banning employers and potential employers from testing for cannabis use.
6) Horticulture rights for citizens, including the right to grow and breed as much cannabis and hemp as they feel necessary for their non-commercial use.
As well as legalizing non-commercial private trading between citizens.
7) Apply these rights to cannabis to everyone including medical. I don't see why medical people cannot gain ground too.
8.) This will create an atmosphere in the State of California which will allow a transition for our communities and law enforcement.
9) I have stated that over sight is necessary and that a system of permits for people pursuing cannabis horticulture which can generate revenue for the State. I have stated that a central authority is better than 600 jurisdictions so I am in favor of that if in it's existence all citizens enjoy equal rights to the peaceful and lawful use of cannabis and it's related activities such as horticulture all up and down the State.
------------Dan Kone-------------
1) This is for the purposes of legalization the recreational use of cannabis. Medical laws are excluded from these regulations. Nothing supersedes a doctor's orders.
2) Allow all citizens of California to posses and grow cannabis for personal consumption. Legalize a grow area of 100sq ft, and possession of up to 8lbs at your home. Legalize possession of up to 1lb on your person.
3) Allow citizens of California 19 years old and up to have safe access to acquire, cultivate, and possess cannabis. Legalize dispensaries operating as a collective or cooperative either for profit or not-for-profit. Collectives and cooperatives may operate as store front dispensaries, delivery services, bakeries/cafes, or farmers markets but are not necessarily limited to those uses. Collectives are limited to one commercial location. No one may have a controlling share in more than one collective.
4) If your personal grow exceeds your personal requirements you may put it up for sale on consignment at the collective of your choice. (for legal purposes, it must be consignment sales so you're not operating an unlicensed business.)
5) Legalize and permit commercial growing. Permits will be granted through the state in a process similar to forming corporation where everyone can access them. Permit costs will remain below $5000. Commercial growing will be limited to 2k square feet per grow. One person can not hold more than one permit nor have a controlling share in multiple companies holding more than one permit.
6) Outlaw the taxation of medical cannabis. Tax recreational sales of cannabis at 9%. No further taxation through congress is permitted without an additional ballot measure where 2/3 of Callifornians agree to the tax.
7) All revenue created by the recreational cannabis tax will go directly to the local schools in that collective's county. Counties that do not allow or take measures to prevent collectives from opening will not receive tax revenue from cannabis. Counties that encourage collectives receive the greatest benefits.
8.) State and local government employees including law enforcement are prohibited from cooperating or sharing information with federal police in cannabis related cases.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
That would gauge what people like of my proposal. That would not measure which method of legalization people prefer. You're talking about measuring two different things here. In this case we want to measure which method of legalization people prefer here. That is the question.