hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
man I hate trolls like no other.
DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
In a slime infected grow area, I have found the tea to be limited in usefulness with most of the typical methods of cloning. My old facilities were built on a swampy area, which made the environment prone to mold and of course slime. Being a fan of DWC the first cloning method I tried was a bubble cloner. The results were always about 2/10 rooted, if that, and the rest became covered in a clear or brown gel. With heavy use of sterilizing products the gel was mostly absent, but roots did not form any better. Around this time I began using tea, but incorporating the tea into the bubble cloner only improved the success rate slightly. The best results came when I changed the water and re-added tea daily. From there I switched to rockwool, only to be attacked by mold. With a dome the mold would take over in 48 hours, and of course moldy/mildew cuttings rarely take root. Spraying the tea on the foliage kept the mold at bay, but roots still did not form at an acceptable rate, even when soaked in tea. That is when I tried the following approach, which I think is the best way to incorporate the tea into cloning.
These instructions are simple, just like the cloning process should be. You should already know the basics of cloning. Nothing new to be taught there. Be clean and start with healthy mothers. One of the mistakes I see new growers make is putting their cuttings under strong lighting. The lighting should be incidental, as you want to encourage root growth instead of foliage growth. Once you see roots you should increase the lighting a bit. The exception to this is if you are using dutch master APS spray, in which case you can go full out right away.
First get a cat to supervise and watch for any mistakes you might make.
Start with a cheap plastic shoe box, no need for a lid. Make sure it's cleaned and rinsed well.
Throw in a couple air stones; I use 4 inch, one at each end. Fill with microbe acceptable water a couple inches, for me it takes about 1/2 gallon. No need to PH the water or add nutes.
Now is the touch that made the difference in my results and what really allows you to leave the set up for days at a time. Take a small hydro pump, remove the hose, and set in the middle of the shoebox. This pump will constantly be moving the water, adding oxygen, and distributing your bennies.
Right now the pump would be shooting water up into the air, we'll address that in a second.
I like to make my own net cups and throw them away after harvest, instead of wrestling with monster roots. I just buy a pack of plastic party cups, and use a razor to make holes. If this is too time consuming net cups work just fine, but you'll need to make at least one of these.
These roots resulted in two weeks, and have not began much side branching yet. In a weeks time this will be a full on root ball. The roots can easily push aside the plastic as they thicken.
Take one of the cups and cut a few holes near the top, just under the lid. Now take this cup and turn it upside down on top of your pump. My dollar store has several different size cups, and this one works perfectly. Obviously you could improvise with whatever materials would accomplish this.
Now your water will be constantly smashing into the top (bottom) of the cup and trickling back down and into the solution. This will super oxygenate your water and keep the solution moving throughout the tub. I suggest using hydroton to fill the cups, but even perlite would do. The medium offers a place for the bennies to colonize until roots form.
Before you take a cutting, fill the bottom of the cup with a layer of hydroton. Take the cutting and place it in the cup, holding it center. Take another cup full of hydroton, and sprinkle it into your netcup until your cutting is supported. Place it into the water. Add at least 2 oz tea per half gallon initially, spreading it all around the box and into the cups/hydroton. After that, add water as needed and add 1oz of tea every three days.
This is the setup that works best for me. I use no cloning products, no sprays, and get a 100% success rate in under 10 days. If needed, the cups can be left in the setup for a week or more after roots have formed. The worst that will happen is entanglement. No slime will ever form, and algae doesn't begin to set in for a month or more. When you're done, just wash and rinse and you're ready to go again.
These instructions are simple, just like the cloning process should be. You should already know the basics of cloning. Nothing new to be taught there. Be clean and start with healthy mothers. One of the mistakes I see new growers make is putting their cuttings under strong lighting. The lighting should be incidental, as you want to encourage root growth instead of foliage growth. Once you see roots you should increase the lighting a bit. The exception to this is if you are using dutch master APS spray, in which case you can go full out right away.
First get a cat to supervise and watch for any mistakes you might make.
Start with a cheap plastic shoe box, no need for a lid. Make sure it's cleaned and rinsed well.
Throw in a couple air stones; I use 4 inch, one at each end. Fill with microbe acceptable water a couple inches, for me it takes about 1/2 gallon. No need to PH the water or add nutes.
Now is the touch that made the difference in my results and what really allows you to leave the set up for days at a time. Take a small hydro pump, remove the hose, and set in the middle of the shoebox. This pump will constantly be moving the water, adding oxygen, and distributing your bennies.
Right now the pump would be shooting water up into the air, we'll address that in a second.
I like to make my own net cups and throw them away after harvest, instead of wrestling with monster roots. I just buy a pack of plastic party cups, and use a razor to make holes. If this is too time consuming net cups work just fine, but you'll need to make at least one of these.
These roots resulted in two weeks, and have not began much side branching yet. In a weeks time this will be a full on root ball. The roots can easily push aside the plastic as they thicken.
Take one of the cups and cut a few holes near the top, just under the lid. Now take this cup and turn it upside down on top of your pump. My dollar store has several different size cups, and this one works perfectly. Obviously you could improvise with whatever materials would accomplish this.
Now your water will be constantly smashing into the top (bottom) of the cup and trickling back down and into the solution. This will super oxygenate your water and keep the solution moving throughout the tub. I suggest using hydroton to fill the cups, but even perlite would do. The medium offers a place for the bennies to colonize until roots form.
Before you take a cutting, fill the bottom of the cup with a layer of hydroton. Take the cutting and place it in the cup, holding it center. Take another cup full of hydroton, and sprinkle it into your netcup until your cutting is supported. Place it into the water. Add at least 2 oz tea per half gallon initially, spreading it all around the box and into the cups/hydroton. After that, add water as needed and add 1oz of tea every three days.
This is the setup that works best for me. I use no cloning products, no sprays, and get a 100% success rate in under 10 days. If needed, the cups can be left in the setup for a week or more after roots have formed. The worst that will happen is entanglement. No slime will ever form, and algae doesn't begin to set in for a month or more. When you're done, just wash and rinse and you're ready to go again.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
nice rite up heisenberg, can i put a lid on the tub and put the cutings in neopreme pucs or a 1in net basket with hydrotron?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
You can add a lid if you want, but there is no need unless you want to block falling debris. The light shining in wont hurt a thing. The hydroton or some sort of medium is a must, or else the bennies will not thrive. Also, there is no need to change the water except between batches.
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Cool thanks heisenberg
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Damn it! This wont' work for me. I don't own a cat... Seriously, this is great information. Such a simple set up! I've never used only hydroton, I've always had a plant in a rockwool cube that was inserted into a hydroton filled net cup. Of course, I've only started from seed, this will be my first cloning attempt. I usually dip my young vegging plants in an Azamax solution as a preventative for pests: to do this I put a net pot cover (the ones with the hole for the stem to poke through) on so that when I turn the plant upside down and dip it into the Azamax solution, the hydroton stays in the net cup. When I do this, the hydroton does shift and grind a little in the net pot, and I feel that the rockwool cube adds stability to the plant's stem and roots, as opposed to the the plant being supported only by the pellets. So, I guess I'm asking if it's okay if I insert my cuttings into rockwool cubes, then into the hydroton filled cups?
fallinprince
Active Member
View attachment 1734960View attachment 1734961View attachment 1734962View attachment 1734963View attachment 1734964View attachment 1734965View attachment 1734966
These are all the same seedling/clone that im trying to flower in a box outside of the room to determine the sex.
anyone have any ideas? because i think its a male
These are all the same seedling/clone that im trying to flower in a box outside of the room to determine the sex.
anyone have any ideas? because i think its a male
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Yes you can use rockwool or rooter plugs, which would help you use a bit less hydroton in each cup, but it's unnecessary. If you need to dip the cuttings, take them out of the hydroton and do it. Pour some of the hydroton out of the cup so that the base of the cuttings is exposed, then pull the cutting out. Then just place them back the same way; hold center and sprinkle in hydroton until supported. It wont stress the cuttings at all, but if you have a few starter roots going be careful not to break them. Obviously this doesn't work once the roots have made their way through the holes.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Too early to say for sure. Let them go a few more days until it's obvious, you have time before they would start releasing pollen.
Your plants would basically be sitting in a compost soup, and would almost certainly develop a thick biofilm on the roots due to the tea being so concentrated and because organic material is being broken down. Best to let this unfold in the tea and add it as directed.
billy4479
Well-Known Member
so a few things i noticed about your set up heisenberg first wouldnt a dark tupperware be ideal cause algae growth ? Second with that little of water and a pump running dont pumps heat up and heat your water ? maybe th e pump on timmer / thermostat to avoid possible heat problems ..than your cup in your pic has nice roots growing out of it but if you pull that plant out wont it hert those little roots to go back through those holes .............off topic a little but when einstein first proposed his theroy of relativity he stated that nothing can move faster than the speed of light a fellow scientest pointed out that gravity moves faster than the speed of light if you move a object b object a is instanley effected ... einstein went on to wright his special theory of relativity which as you probley know including gravity as spacetime my point is that somtimes you might not see somthing ...that onther might keep up the good work
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Good observations, however the bennies take care of those concerns. Because we don't use nutes, algae does not set in for more than a month, and even then it's subtle and slow growing. It would be 8 weeks or more before it started to be clearly visible, plenty of time to get roots and be done with it. I have not monitored the water temps with and without the pump, but it seems to make no difference. The bennies prefer warm water and I would recommend having the pump going 24/7 for oxygenation. The roots do not need to be taken out of the cup. My bud buckets have holes that the cups fit down into, same size holes as the netcups fit in. So they just sit in the water for 10 days till root, go into a temporary veg container for a week or so, and then into the bud room. When they are finished I cut the stalk, recover as much hydroton as I can, and throw away the cup.
If you did need to remove them from the cup, check them after 7 days by carefully removing the hydroton and try to get them before the roots reach the holes. If roots have formed, just pop them out and into whatever container you want.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Thank you, Heisenberg. I'm glad to know that I can use the rockwool cube method that I am comfortable with. This way I can fill the net cup only once and not have to mess with it at all from clone to harvest. Can't wait to post my positive results!
SaneLawsMake4SaneSociety
Well-Known Member
Heisenberg, I just read your location. That is awesome. Did you make that up or is it a pop culture reference?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I was paraphrasing Xavier:Renegade Angel
"I have no powers, powers are for the weak! Unless you count the power to blow minds with my weapons grade philosophical insight. I'm a thoughtocaster, a conumdrummer in a band called life puzzler. Hell I 've flipped more lids than a monkey in a soup kitchen... OF THE MIND!"
SaneLawsMake4SaneSociety
Well-Known Member
Whoever wrote that DEFINITELY smokes weed.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Dude, you have to check out just the pilot of Xavier on YouTube, it's wickedly cool. These creators are on much more than just weed
Penyajo
Well-Known Member
Hey Heisenberg. Great thread you got here and I can see that you have already helped out many. I have a quick question for you. I have a compost barrel that I received as a gift. I have never used the thing and am planning on using it here shortly. I have been short on cash the last few months and fall a few dollars short of getting the I ingredients to make your tea. I was wondering if I can make any of the ingredients in my compost barrel. If so what can I male and how do I make it. Thanks again for contributing a great thread to the RIU community. STAY HIGH!!!
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Hey gang. Awesome thread!! Couldn't quite read all 72 pages so I thought I would just tack in on the end with a couple questions.
First off, I'm new to DWC coming from about 2 years of successful ebb/flow hydroton based grows. I'm going to use my existing ebb/flow buckets, controller, and rez to do a DWC grow with 16 4 gallon buckets. I'm planning on having the buckets drain back to the rez and fill up the buckets about 6-7 times a day to keep the nutrient solution fresh in the buckets and allow me to adjust PH when the rez is full.
ANYWAYS... I have my clones in a small DWC tub. I'm using botanicare grow, calmag, and GH roots excellerator. PPM are around 700-800. Things were looking great. I added the tea you suggested...and then slime appeared. clear mucus like susbtance with chunks of organics (likely earth work castings particles) and the slime was loaded with air bubbles.?
Panicked, added h2o2 two days ago. Situation appears the same. I checked the rez temp...80! UGGGH, put the chiller in there and got it down to 67.
At this point I'm not certain what I should do. From this thread it seems I should. 1. dump rez 2. scrub rez clean 3. spray roots off with water 4. add fresh water and tea for 2 days 5. add nutes.
I thought it would be prudent to have these actions confirmed before just jumping in. Thanks again. REp all around!!
First off, I'm new to DWC coming from about 2 years of successful ebb/flow hydroton based grows. I'm going to use my existing ebb/flow buckets, controller, and rez to do a DWC grow with 16 4 gallon buckets. I'm planning on having the buckets drain back to the rez and fill up the buckets about 6-7 times a day to keep the nutrient solution fresh in the buckets and allow me to adjust PH when the rez is full.
ANYWAYS... I have my clones in a small DWC tub. I'm using botanicare grow, calmag, and GH roots excellerator. PPM are around 700-800. Things were looking great. I added the tea you suggested...and then slime appeared. clear mucus like susbtance with chunks of organics (likely earth work castings particles) and the slime was loaded with air bubbles.?
Panicked, added h2o2 two days ago. Situation appears the same. I checked the rez temp...80! UGGGH, put the chiller in there and got it down to 67.
At this point I'm not certain what I should do. From this thread it seems I should. 1. dump rez 2. scrub rez clean 3. spray roots off with water 4. add fresh water and tea for 2 days 5. add nutes.
I thought it would be prudent to have these actions confirmed before just jumping in. Thanks again. REp all around!!
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
shit. I forgot. my water has chloramines in it. Not chlorine...choramine. I pass the water through a sediment and carbon filter but I'm pretty sure this doesn't take all the choloramines out. Are my biotics doomed? My tea foams like crazy so that is telling me something..right?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Sounds like your plan is good, but i'd only wait 24 hrs to add nutes. I'm curious, are you using any advanced nutrients products? Be sure you are making the tea correctly, and def use distilled or RO water for the brew. The chloramine will reduce effectiveness in your res, but it shouldn't prevent the tea from working. Adding roots excelurator directly to a dwc often causes gunky buildup even with the tea, but you can use some in the brew itself without worry. Be sure to observe proper res conditions and keep anything organic or antibiotic out of the res, and the tea should work fine.
