PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Nope. I've never supported Trump, which I'm pretty sure what MAGA is all about. You are just making stuff up right now. I also think QANON is stupid. Now what?
Does government have the "authority" to force mandatory vaccinations on unwilling individuals ? Where does that authority come from ?
- Thread starter Rob Roy
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PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I'm no where near moderate. Biden is moderate. I'm hard left, but so far left that I disagree with a lot of what you moderate lefties think. Then again, the idea of what "liberals" believe sure has changed a lot in the past few years. I still consider myself as a liberal, just not one of the neo authoritarian type liberals which are so prominent these days.
No, I'm sorry, you don't. You only have a right to a fair opportunity.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Yes, I should have better clarified that. We are saying the same thing.
You don't come off as hard left. The effort you put into amplifying anything negative to one specific type of vaccine is what I think of as the hard right quirk. Something like thinking you have a right to work wherever you want could go either way for neo right/left.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
And yet you come here and talk antivax and the libertarian lie. That’s in line with the folks you say you despise, but you carry their water on this site.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
You guys are focusing on a singular issue, and making a decision that that singular issue somehow defines my political views. Funny thing is that bodily autonomy used to be a liberal foundation. I'm not a libertarian, as I believe in social services. I also don't "despise" people outside of my belief system. I know many "lefties" who also share some of my viewpoints, which you two oppose. Funny thing is all of us voted against Trump, so your presuppositions are way off base. Problem is you have been sucked too far into the "us or them" mentality. Just because I disagree on one facet of life, you have decided that I am somehow the opposition. This sort of political xenophobia is exactly what will lose Democrats elections in the future. You are making the mistake of pushing us out of the party, instead if simply reining in the neo-liberal authoritarianist approach. Don't act shocked in 2024.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
This is a fine manifesto, and I give it points for emotionality. But your posting history is what it is.
Bodily autonomy used to be a liberal concept when talking about, say, reproductive rights. But when not vaxing is portrayed as autonomy, that aligns you with the hard right, like it ir not. Vaxing is a fundamental civic duty. Your pushback against the vax from day one is your signature, not the above jeremiad.
It isn’t a disagreement on one facet of life; that is dishonest. You chose a Big One, namely the privilege to flout a civic duty because “personal principles”. That is the libertarian fallacy in marquee letters.
Not vaxing is not autonomy. It is malice. You could kill somebody by exercising your soi-disant autonomy, and never even know. How then is what you are saying at all moral?
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I disagree that it's a civic duty. It's only a civic duty is your mind, because you believe it to be so.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
That can happen regardless of vaccination status. If fact, most people I know who are vaxxed got it from someone who is also vaxxed. Your rhetoric is antiquated and inaccurate.
I went out of my way to remove the single issue from my perception of your views in entirety. The irony being, in not recognizing that, you're doing the very thing you're pointing the finger about.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No. There is the objective element of reducing both incidence and severity of transmission. This is any intelligent and compassionate human’s duty in a healthy society. You just say what you say without the derivation, which again aligns with the Repugs.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that for a second.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
“Can happen” isn’t the statistics. Using anecdote, intellectually lazy, which again reduces to dishonesty.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
LOL, you are simply trying to align me with your opposition as a division tactic. It's a silly tactic, and disingenuous at best.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
There you may be legitimately autonomous. But your actions in society aren’t.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No. You have bad views based on bad logic. You never mount a defense; you just say inflammatory irrelevancies like the quoted. Your sloppiness does not promote respect for your views.
Go back and read, I said I thought you were a moderate with a couple hard right quirks. I say that because I know your entire persona isn't based on those quirks. We all have them. We have a general core viewpoint, then some outliers. Those outliers don't make up who we are. If you don't want to believe words that are recorded on the previous page, that's a you-thing and not a me-thing.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
That's not true. I have mounted many defenses. Every time I post any facts I get banned from the thread. I'm sure I will be banned from this one too.
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