HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
I deleted that because I realized I needed to read your post again.. I'll respond in one minute.
Defoliation
- Thread starter roseypeach
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HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Ok, you can remove the leaves and see an improved air circulation. You can remove the leaves and have an easier time reaching into a tight space... you can remove the leaves and feel better about it because you read somewhere about this new thing called defoliating and you are convinced it will help you.
But, the bottom line is that you can fix your problem in another way and removing leaves is harmful to the plant.
But, the bottom line is that you can fix your problem in another way and removing leaves is harmful to the plant.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
No problem, but just to point out, we don't all live in the arid warm climates. I live a few blocks from the beach, and the outdoor humidity overnight is generally 85% to 90%.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
So ok... you have PM issues and you want to pull a leaf off of the plant... Now you just exposed the plant to not only PM, but all other pests, fungal infections and diseases.
Give you plants better space. Why are you working with PM prone plants in the first place?
The way you fight a PM prone plant is NOT removing leaves... That will make it worse.
If you have this issue read up on how to deal with PM.... they will tell you most likely that cutting out a bad area is a good option.. And it is if you are already to that point... But as a practice, no, it is not the best option. Solve you environment issues first...
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Topping is harmful to the plant too -- in the short term. We need to think about the big picture here though.
Also, in regards to PM I could easily choose "another way" that may be more effective, but as I previously pointed out I choose not to spray toxins meant for golf courses on my ganja.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I'm not working with that strain anymore, for the obvious reasons. I do agree that removing leaves does open up the plant for other possible infections, however I can also tell you that it does indeed help with PM. My side by side test proved that.
I'm not removing leaves regularly these days, and I definitely don't support complete defoliation, however at the same time I see these narrowly viewed, one sided, extremist type arguments used to debunk any and all benefits of leaf removal silly and disingenuous at best.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Ok... I don't think your location changes any laws of science or the way a plant works. You need extra control of RH and I need extra control of temp. Depending on our genetics, the plants needs are still the same.
Again... you're retreating far far far into safety right now. Was this not about Defoliation before?
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I'm not retreating to anywhere. I've never supported extreme defoliation. I've always only supported selective leaf removal, and for specific situations.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
You're just here to argue with UB aren't you? Haha. Good luck.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Location absolutely affects the development of PM.
http://precisionagrilab.com/powderymildew/
Powdery Mildew Maps
Powdery Mildew Advisory
The maps displayed on this site are generated through a reliable computer model based on accurate weather data collected from serveral sites throughout each region. The powdery mildew index is an indication of climatic conditions which may be conducive to development of powdery mildew disease. It is possible to have the disease present and active at economically damaging levels even when the powdery mildew index indicates a low likelihood of conditions favoring rapid development of the disease. Frequent field scouting by a qualified PCA is recommended.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I generally try not to argue with him, as I tend to find his arguments fairly pointless. Sometimes when he says something really senile though I just can't help it.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Chemical options are not the only way either.
Look up a good read on dealing with PM in the greenhouse. Prbly from an extension office...
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Yep... it does not change the fact that removing a leaf is harmful to the plant and that removing leaves is not the only option. In fact, it is not even a good option.
Nothing about your location changes any of what I have said.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Honestly... your beach towns are not much more humid than many parts of the midwest during many parts of the year... Where I got my start on indoor gardening.
The easiest way to fight PM is with genetics. With the right genetics you won't have to deal with PM.
I wouldn't try to grow Romulan even in an arid climate.. It's just too prone.
The easiest way to fight PM is with genetics. With the right genetics you won't have to deal with PM.
I wouldn't try to grow Romulan even in an arid climate.. It's just too prone.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Beyond genetics... It seems like the obvious choice is finding a way to lower the RH in your grow room... climate control... no?
Sit a healthy plant next to a pm plant. It's already likely to get PM. Now take that healthy plant and remove one leaf from it... it is now more susceptible to the PM on the plant next to it.
If the healthy plant was a plant HIGHLY resistant to PM, then it will prbly be fine... Remove just one leaf and it is slightly less resistant. Follow me? Agree? Disagree?
Is your problem not air circulation and/or high RH? Are there not ways to fight that without chemicals that are made to be used on a golf course?
Sit a healthy plant next to a pm plant. It's already likely to get PM. Now take that healthy plant and remove one leaf from it... it is now more susceptible to the PM on the plant next to it.
If the healthy plant was a plant HIGHLY resistant to PM, then it will prbly be fine... Remove just one leaf and it is slightly less resistant. Follow me? Agree? Disagree?
Is your problem not air circulation and/or high RH? Are there not ways to fight that without chemicals that are made to be used on a golf course?
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I'm going to guess that in your humid climate temps are on average 20 degrees higher than my humid climate, which is a climate easier for PM to thrive in. When you live in a community where PM thrives it's always going to be something to consider.
As I've said, I have switched genetics. I have also incorporated GreenCure which is a fairly effective non-toxic solution. I could put the dehumidifier inside the tent instead of outside, but then there would be less space for plants.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree. I only keep the dehumid on half the time and outside of the tent. I could run it 24/7 (which would cost a lot more) or put it inside the tent (which would give me less growing space). Everything is a trade off.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
Pulling the leaves off of your plants is making your plants more susceptible to PM...
There are SIMPLE fixes... like air circulation and not overcrowding plants..
Removing leaves only improves air circulation... it does not fight powdery mildew... it makes your plant more susceptible to PM.
Improve your circulation in the obvious way... proper plant spacing and with the proper equipment and design.
There are SIMPLE fixes... like air circulation and not overcrowding plants..
Removing leaves only improves air circulation... it does not fight powdery mildew... it makes your plant more susceptible to PM.
Improve your circulation in the obvious way... proper plant spacing and with the proper equipment and design.
HeartlandHank
Well-Known Member
So then why do you think the answer to your problem with PM is removing leaves?
You think that weighing the two options... it is better to have your plants more susceptible (with open wound) than it is to find another way to fight PM?
You think there is no other way?
I would recommend looking at the process of IPM. You can apply the same idea to your problem. Come up with a control solution.
Removing growth covered in PM will prbly be part of your control. But removing healthy growth to improve airflow is counter-productive. You can improve airflow in other ways that do not slow growth and make them more susceptible (open wound, slowed growth) to PM.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
All I can say for sure is the results with a specific strain (G13-Haze) which was PM prone (possibly because I acquired it as a clone and already had PM). What I can say is that when I did a side by side with two identical clones and all other factors being identical. The only difference was the approx 30% leaf removal during flower at 14 days and again at 45 days. The yield was nearly identical on both accounts. The only noticeable difference being that PM infected a small portion of lower buds with a minor amount of PM on the plants which no leaves were removed, VS no visable PM on the plants which had the leaves removed as described.
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