Bubblelicious, New York Power Diesel, and Super Skunk in DWC

shnkrmn said:

Hi Bob, I run digital 600's. They put out virtually no heat at all. Especially compared to a magnetic ballast. They shouldn't heat your crawlspace up at all.

Roofing material; sheets of masonite are much cheaper than plywood and should work for your application.

HTH.

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Now that's the kinda input I'm looking for - thanks for that, man

Even though I raised the budget to 10K, I'd still like to not waste money, which $30 sheets of plywood for my ceiling would've done, IMO (would've cost ~$500 for the wood).

You are welcome. I used masonite to construct a grow chamber a couple years ago. And I priced plywood too. The difference was amazing.

Anyhow, made a couple of changes - chopped 1' off of the table legs in the tent, giving the plants some more headroom (up top, obviously) and hopefully helping temps out in there.

The bigger change to deal with the temps was setting up the exhaust fan to actually pull through the light instead of just pulling random tent air out.

Anyhow, got my EZ 120 today - thing's pretty big, and for someone who's never used aero, it's kinda cool seeing how much water it moves around.

Took about 15 clones (only Super Skunk, thinking I'm gonna ditch the bagseed, but only if I have enough SS clones) - pH is 5.8, and TDS is 200 (threw in a touch of Superthrive to my 150TDS water).

Oh, also pulled my pH and TDS meters outta hibernation, and my pH meter was fucked to all hell - going from jibberish to 18+ (a mythical pH) and generally all over the place. Anyhow, took out the piece of paper that was on the left side (across from the round glass thingy), and it seems to work now - calibrated it a shitload, and I don't necessarily trust it, but it's showing 7.0 and 4.0 when it should.

Calibrated my TDS pen and that was straight, didn't even need to adjust it.

Nice cloner..... Masonite is some good stuff.... Looks like things are a happening....

Ceiling is framed, now I just need to frame out the front wall with the door and then I'm gonna start drywalling - shooting to be done all the major work by the end of this weekend, then handle the "leftovers" (plumbing, setting up the natural gas heater, working on sealing the garage door).

Didn't do much this weekend, but ordered the Marey 10L water heater, an electric solenoid to run it off my hose, a new pH meter, and some random other shit.

Will get pics up tomorrow of my progress - can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Also, EZ is running pretty hot (low 80s), but that's because the room/tent it's in is running too hot.........was about to order a chiller for it, but then realized that water temps (most likely) won't be an issue when its in its permanent home.

Before my laundry list of questions and things to do, just thought I'd mention that I've now decided that I'm gonna run a 1K over my 4x4 E&F table next to my octagon ("out in the open", not in a tent or anything - want the light overlap) - figure I can run head strains on there, determine what genetics are worth keeping, etc. - basically, have decided that I've gone through too much fucking work to only be running 2400 watts in flower.

Also, in case anyone's wondering why I have that massive DeWalt table saw, I bought that thinking it was made to cut wood - it's not, as evidenced by the burned piece of 2x4 that you see. Oh well, $200 down the drain.........I'm a moron, but I will use it to cut some PVC, so it's not a total loss.

1) You can see that the door is in its frame and it opens and closes fine, but I haven't screwed it into anything yet - do I just throw some screws in it from the inside and attach to the 2x4s it's resting agains?

2) The door is clearly designed for 2x6s and not 2x4s - is this a big enough problem to worry about? Seems to swing open and shut fine without even being screwed in yet. BTW, that thing is a steel door, heavy as fuck, and I had to try to fit it into that space off the ground solo - was a SERIOUS pain in the ass.

3) AC got delivered - it's pretty damn heavy.

4) Anyone got any good ideas about what to do with the actual garage door? I guess I could build a frame around it and drywall, but that sure seems like a lot of work - anyone got a better idea?

5) Does anyone know if I can hang drywall from the ceiling, even though the ceiling is at 24" instead of 16" spacing? I could move it to 16" relatively easily if I needed to, but since the drywall would only be holding insulation on top of it, was wondering if I could get away with 24" - anyone have some input?

6) Anyone know what I'd need to drill through siding (like siding on your house)? Need to drill a hole to run some PVC out and am wondering what kinda bit I'd need. On that same note, anyone know how hard it'd be to drill through a gutter?

So, things I still need to do before drywall:

1) Install plumbing - going to run ~1" PVC from the room, through the wall and siding, and straight into a gutter - don't want neighbors wondering why there's hot water creating steam from my garage in the middle of winter.

2) Seal up the garage door - some way, some how, gotta get that done.

3) Run a "T" off of the hose outlet so that I can use that water line to do my drain to waste CO2 generator and also to use my R/O filter.

4) Make a little 1' tall by 10' long panel to place under the door/4x4 for the insulation/drywall - gonna be a pain in the ass because that cement is SO uneven and not level.

5) Secure the ceiling 2x4s with screws (the boards are just "loose" in the joists right now).

6) Spackle and "Great Stuff" all gaps/leaks.

7) Install door knob/lock/etc.

Other than that, plants are looking well - starting to see "nubs" on the clones in the EZ, which to me indicates that roots should pop within the next coupla days.

Sorry for all the door pics, but that's a HEAVY steel door that I mounted myself, about a foot and a half off of the ground - kinda proud of meself with all the construction work I'm doing.

Bob Smith said:

Before my laundry list of questions and things to do, just thought I'd mention that I've now decided that I'm gonna run a 1K over my 4x4 E&F table next to my octagon ("out in the open", not in a tent or anything - want the light overlap) - figure I can run head strains on there, determine what genetics are worth keeping, etc. - basically, have decided that I've gone through too much fucking work to only be running 2400 watts in flower.

Also, in case anyone's wondering why I have that massive DeWalt table saw, I bought that thinking it was made to cut wood - it's not, as evidenced by the burned piece of 2x4 that you see. Oh well, $200 down the drain.........I'm a moron, but I will use it to cut some PVC, so it's not a total loss.

1) You can see that the door is in its frame and it opens and closes fine, but I haven't screwed it into anything yet - do I just throw some screws in it from the inside and attach to the 2x4s it's resting agains?

2) The door is clearly designed for 2x6s and not 2x4s - is this a big enough problem to worry about? Seems to swing open and shut fine without even being screwed in yet. BTW, that thing is a steel door, heavy as fuck, and I had to try to fit it into that space off the ground solo - was a SERIOUS pain in the ass.

3) AC got delivered - it's pretty damn heavy.

4) Anyone got any good ideas about what to do with the actual garage door? I guess I could build a frame around it and drywall, but that sure seems like a lot of work - anyone got a better idea?

5) Does anyone know if I can hang drywall from the ceiling, even though the ceiling is at 24" instead of 16" spacing? I could move it to 16" relatively easily if I needed to, but since the drywall would only be holding insulation on top of it, was wondering if I could get away with 24" - anyone have some input?

6) Anyone know what I'd need to drill through siding (like siding on your house)? Need to drill a hole to run some PVC out and am wondering what kinda bit I'd need. On that same note, anyone know how hard it'd be to drill through a gutter?

So, things I still need to do before drywall:

1) Install plumbing - going to run ~1" PVC from the room, through the wall and siding, and straight into a gutter - don't want neighbors wondering why there's hot water creating steam from my garage in the middle of winter.

2) Seal up the garage door - some way, some how, gotta get that done.

3) Run a "T" off of the hose outlet so that I can use that water line to do my drain to waste CO2 generator and also to use my R/O filter.

4) Make a little 1' tall by 10' long panel to place under the door/4x4 for the insulation/drywall - gonna be a pain in the ass because that cement is SO uneven and not level.

5) Secure the ceiling 2x4s with screws (the boards are just "loose" in the joists right now).

6) Spackle and "Great Stuff" all gaps/leaks.

7) Install door knob/lock/etc.

Other than that, plants are looking well - starting to see "nubs" on the clones in the EZ, which to me indicates that roots should pop within the next coupla days.

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Hey Bob, Nice to see its coming along. Now lets get down to business.

First, that is a good saw, it just looks like you have the metal cutting disc in it. You can double check with the manufacturer with just the model number, But you should just be able to pick up a wood blade at the hardware store for $10-$20.

Second, for drilling through the siding,you just need a standard bit that is a little bigger than the pvc. It should say wood, plastic, metal on the drill bit wrapper. And if you have to go through an entire wall(siding, wood, drywall) wou will want a 10"-12" bit to make it all the way through. Dont forget to silicone around the hole to seal after the pipe is installed.

Last, for the garage door, you could just great stuff expanding foam all the way around it, but when it comes to ear down time it will be a bitch to get all that shit off. Wut it will make a good seal and be fairly cheap and easy to do. Just a thought. Otherwise doing a full plastic wrap and tape job will work also and will still be cheap, but much more work. Probly almost as much as framing and drywalling to get it all done perfect, but thats all I got. Good luck and I look forward to the next update.

Integra21 said:

Hey Bob, Nice to see its coming along. Now lets get down to business.

First, that is a good saw, it just looks like you have the metal cutting disc in it. You can double check with the manufacturer with just the model number, But you should just be able to pick up a wood blade at the hardware store for $10-$20.

Second, for drilling through the siding,you just need a standard bit that is a little bigger than the pvc. It should say wood, plastic, metal on the drill bit wrapper. And if you have to go through an entire wall(siding, wood, drywall) wou will want a 10"-12" bit to make it all the way through. Dont forget to silicone around the hole to seal after the pipe is installed.

Last, for the garage door, you could just great stuff expanding foam all the way around it, but when it comes to ear down time it will be a bitch to get all that shit off. Wut it will make a good seal and be fairly cheap and easy to do. Just a thought. Otherwise doing a full plastic wrap and tape job will work also and will still be cheap, but much more work. Probly almost as much as framing and drywalling to get it all done perfect, but thats all I got. Good luck and I look forward to the next update.

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Thanks for checking in and for the tips

Since noise is almost as big an issue to me as smell, gonna frame it out and do the garage door right with some insulation - I don't want anything to feel "temporary" in this room, and some great stuff (which is awesome, BTW) and panda would give it that feeling to me.

And regarding the saw, the blades (they're 14") that they make in that size for cutting wood are $200 each...........seeing as how I'm just about cutting wood (and I went out and bought a circular saw 20 minutes after I bought the table saw), probably just gonna use that saw to cut my PVC and then give it away or sell it on craigslist or something.

Getting close to octagon time - hoping to run my light meter test this weekend so that I figure out the dimensions of the octagon so I can order the "wyes" - not sure what kind of lead time they're gonna need for 126 of them.

Hey Bob

Well done with all the work your completing.....
I really didnt realise untill i got involved in this "hobby" how much would be involved in each project.
&
How F#$%ING hard it is to do shit by yourself.....
Well done with all the work you have completed so far.
Im keen to see it all done and flowering like Krazy....

Q: Do you have to exhaust the air to a seperate area outside the "grow room" once it passes through the carbon filter?

I have purchased a Thermostat to control temps by cooling the room by exhausting hot air outside the "grow room". If i connect the carfbon Filter to that then the room will have strong odor as the thermostat will not have the cooling on often enough to remove the odor........Im really confused

Thanks for your help Bob ( check out my thread below )

Indefinately said:

Hey Bob

Well done with all the work your completing.....
I really didnt realise untill i got involved in this "hobby" how much would be involved in each project.
&
How F#$%ING hard it is to do shit by yourself.....
Well done with all the work you have completed so far.
Im keen to see it all done and flowering like Krazy....

Q: Do you have to exhaust the air to a seperate area outside the "grow room" once it passes through the carbon filter?

I have purchased a Thermostat to control temps by cooling the room by exhausting hot air outside the "grow room". If i connect the carfbon Filter to that then the room will have strong odor as the thermostat will not have the cooling on often enough to remove the odor........Im really confused

Thanks for your help Bob ( check out my thread below )

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Lol..........yeah, doing all this work by myself is especially hard on me, who (unfortunately) never really touched a tool in my life until I restarted growing last year (there's a pic somewhere in this thread of when I clocked myself in the head with a hammer, if you want a chuckle).

And as far as the cost goes, tell me about it - have no clue how deep I'm in, but it's gotta be getting close to $15K...........and so far I've gotten about 20 ounces from my investment (feel free to laugh)...........but hopefully this newest project will be the last major investment for at least a year or two and the room can pay for itself many times over in that time span.


But to your questions - if you're asking me specifically what I'm going to do with my filter, I'm actually going to have it on the end of my portable AC exhaust, as I've unfortunately heard that they exhaust some stink from the room (sucks, but I'll deal with it) - probably gonna attach a little duct booster in line with the exhaust to try to restrict the air flow as little as possible.

In all honesty, the issue you're dealing with sounds like exactly what I had to deal with over the winter - I was in a tent where the fans never came on and the smell became a large issue - I actually ended up just removing the ducting from the exhaust fan and just letting it run continuously inside the tent (pulling through the filter), where it got rid of a lot of the smells - also used two ozone generators in conjunction with that setup.

The smell (and the pain in the ass of filling CO2 tanks) combined with the temps I was facing in late spring/early summer necessitated that I ran my last grow with full intake/exhaust and no CO2 enrichment - really, really helped with the smells (like couldn't smell them at all, even right next to the tent).

Checking out your thread now.

Since I can't predict the order the pics are gonna come out, I'll just tell you what they are and you can match statement to pics.

1) Marey got delivered
2) Electric solenoid for Marey got delivered
3) I RAN PLUMBING!! (makes me happy )
4) Cheapo pH meter got delivered - just needs to last for one grow, and then I'm getting a few trimeters
5) That big ass saw was useful for cutting PVC - almost fun, in a way
6) You can see how bad the clones are yellowing - guessing some kinda pH issue (couldn't check it until now, so I'll check it when I'm done typing this)
7) The stems are all bulbous and thick (2X as thick as they were pre-EZ) which to me (hopefully) indicates that rooting will be taking place soon
Door is now fully installed - hadn't done the screws yesterday, but did today and it's working marvelously

As you can see, ran 3 "T"s to that drain line (3/4" PVC), allowing me to run the Marey, the RO filter waste, and a "general use" waste pump into the same pipe.

So that's about it for today's update - saw that 15/32 plywood is on sale for $15/sheet at Home Depot, so I *might* actually try to start installing the ceiling tomorrow.

Jesus, actually getting a little ahead of schedule on the construction.........now if only the plants/clones will cooperate and lemme start rocking and rolling on October 1st.

Oh, with how much fun I had (seriously, it was pretty enjoyable) with the PVC today, I was giving some serious thought to building a Heath Robinson flooded tube vertical (or something similar) and dropping the "126 wyes" idea - anyone have thoughts on this? Would allow me customize the structure more and also be 1/20th the cost.

As always, comments, questions and/or criticism is always welcome.

A couple of questions:

1) Does it matter if I have 6" thick insulation laying across the drywall on the ceiling? Since I framed it with 2x4s, there'd be 2" of insulation above the wood - that's not an issue, is it? The more insulation the better, no?

2) Anyone have any good ideas for the floor? Can't decide/figure out if I should paint it, try to tape panda to it, etc. Any input would be awesome - it's a cracked and uneven concrete floor.

BTW, checked the pH in the EZ and it was 7.8............drunkenly dropped 2 tablespoons of pH down in it last night, checked it this morning and it's at 5.2.........should rise to right about 6 and stay there, hopefully.

Also, posted a video just to kinda recap the updates I've done and also to ask some questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7N4CeOjxxo

The insulation sounds fine to me, and I'd try to find some underlay to put on the concrete, then panda film on that.

looking good Bob. I havent been on here in months. glad to see things are coming along nicely for you. Im retired now. no more growing until its legal.

rbahadosingh said:

looking good Bob. I havent been on here in months. glad to see things are coming along nicely for you. Im retired now. no more growing until its legal.

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I hope everything is going all right for you, man - it's a shame about the growing, but as long as you're happy and healthy, worse things have happened.

Thanks for checking in, man.

Below is an exchange that I had in my journal on that website...............

Originally Posted by watercooled
Integra - still thinking about the floor, but I'm honestly leaning towards just scrubbing it as well as possible and filling in the cracks as best I can - you guys can not fathom how uneven that floor is, and any attempts to put something on top of it would be futile, IMO.

Watercooled, thanks for stopping in and the great ideas man - really, really appreciate it.

I'm gonna handle them in order, but real quick just to exphasize my fickle-ness - was tossing and turning last night until 6am considering different growing methods - went to horizontal aero scrog under light movers to horizontal sog, and then finally came back to (and settled) my original octagon idea at about 5:45am.

As far as the insulation goes, good to know - so "attic" (R-30, 6" thick) insulation laid across the ceiling "bare" would work pretty well for me? Just make sure it's pressed down well and I don't have to cover it?

As far as moving that ceiling light - hopefully that won't be much of a problem - not sure about how to move the "switch" to outside the grow room, but I assume I can figure that out - moving the actual light down should be as easy as unscrewing some screws.

Why do you think I need a second A/C? Last night (while tossing and turning) I realized that my idea of adding a 1K in there wouldn't work because of a lack of available power - so that's ~3000 watts (taking into account the veg tent and dehumidifier) being cooled by a 14KBTU AC - that should work, no?

Also, regarding the carbon filter - I agree that it sounds like a bad idea on the exhaust of the portable A/C, so here's the new idea:

Put my two ozone generators and the filter with fan in the garage where the dirty air gets exhausted to, and don't mess around at all with the ducting on the AC - allow it to dump "stinky" air into the small remainder of the garage, and have the filter and ozone generators located right where the exhaust comes out - sound like a plan with a reasonable chance of success?

I'm guessing that the "remainder" of the garage is ~600 cubic feet - what size fan would I need to make sure there's adequate negative pressure? I'd think a 170CFM fan would be sufficient, but I can step up to a 425CFM if that is needed.

Yeah, when I think about all the work I've put in (and the tons still to do), the word "temporary" doesn't seem to describe this endeavor - let's remove that word from our vocabulary. Gonna frame out and seal the garage door sooner rather than later.

Iceboxes are forgotten - too much work with too much risk of them not working.

Frankly, the building of the actual octagon should be pretty gosh darn easy - just cut PVC and glue the pieces together with the wye fittings - plus it'll be much cheaper (<$2K, no matter how big I end up going), and I'm starting to dig this DIY stuff - it's gotta make problems easier to solve if you've built it yourself, no? Long story short, sticking with the DIY octagon plan (for now )

1) I'm trying with the plants, man - they were outside for a while and clones were taken VERY late in flowering, so they've been sickly from the start - however, the clones that rooted about 10 days ago are in dirt and doing great, so I think I might've gotten past the rough patch. The clones in the EZ look like SHIT, but they're from sickly plants and the water's too hot and the pH was outta wack for the first week because of a broken pH meter. In case anyone's wondering, yes, I'm wishing I wouldn't have bought that EZ - I'm drunk on eBay too much and linking your eBay to your Paypal so you only have to click your mouse twice and you've bought something is bad news for an impulsive person like myself.

2) Still waiting to hear about why you think I need a bigger AC - even though I have this one sitting in my kitchen, if there's a compelling reason it's not worthwhile, it's unopened and I can ship it back.

Also, for security reasons last night (and me thinking the AC could pretty easily keep up with the lighting), I was thinking of keeping the ballasts inside the grow room - guess I should definitely move them into the "empty" area of the garage, huh?

Honestly, still haven't totally given up on the idea of saying "screw" AC and going with a 6" 425CFM for intake and a 10", 1000CFM for exhaust - I wouldn't be able to keep the room in the same tight temperature band that I would with AC, but I'd also be saving about 1000 watts of power. The CO2 would get exhausted more often, but with a natural gas line in there, I'm not real worried about that.

3) Not sure what I'm doing with tents - might buy a 4x4 (even though I just sold mine like a dumbass) for my moms and clones - have them in a 2x4 right now but I don't think that's large enough mom area to get the # of clones I'm gonna need - gonna stick with a 400 watt light in either case, though.

4) I'm growing in my "workout" room right now in a 2x4 tent - it's all I've got available to me at this point - girl is not letting me take over any more rooms in the house.

5) Definitely gonna need a duct muffler regardless of what direction I go with for cooling.

6) I'm on it

7) That's kinda what I was figuring - with (hopefully) how well insulated the room will be and the 400 watts from the veg tent running and with lights off during the day (when outside temps will obviously be warmer), I hope to get by without a heater - doubt temps are gonna get much below 65F, and I'm almost certain they'd never get below 60F.

And as far as switching the outlets to 220V, IF that's something I can do (don't think it is, electrical scares me and I'm not sure if I have the necessary breaker slots anyways), that'd definitely be something I'd do sooner rather than later - wanna try to get as much of this done before any plants go in there as possible - not trying to do major structural/electrical upgrades between harvests if I can help it.

Holy fuck, that post has GOT to be some kinda record.

Sorry people.

Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
Don't Press it down. Leave it fluffy. If you wanted to you can go to HD, buy some spray in and rent the machine. It's a two person job and pretty messy, but it won't leave you itching.


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
Yup, the bulb is easy. As for the switch, make sure you turn the breaker off and then dissemble it. You'll need some wire nuts (most likely the yellow ones) and some wire (16/3 will work fine) Get those at home depot and you'll see what I mean.


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
You are over reacting to electrical work. You are capable of framing out a room, throwing insulation, growing cannabis so the electrical work is easy! Make sure you turn off the breakers and do it! Keep going back to HD as needed.)

Again, you are not only cooling the light, you are cooling a hot and muggy garage as well. Drop the IB's and pay for an A/C!



Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
Yup! I would do it.


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
I like to oversize it. Go as big as you feel comfortable. The wattage difference is almost negligible.


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
K


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
Impulse your way into a second A/C, a tent or two with a Carbon Filter and fan!


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
I'm assuming you really won't do a split A/C. Because of that, don't return it, just get another one. Again, you are not just cooling the lights, you are cooling a hot muggy garage plus the lights. If you go with what I'm saying you won't even continue framing!


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
I think you said you are going digi's? If so, put them wherever you want! if they are magnetic, then yes, but them in the "empty" area.


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
That's fine, but you aren't positive it will work AND you are compromising on your rooms temperature. If you are willing to not grow during the hot months, go for it!

You could always implement that after the first check or two since the cold weather would be here by then.[/quote]


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
The plants you took pics of in dirt need to be up potted as soon as the roots turn in those pots. Take a look at my album on RIU... To EVERY one that has a plant count issue, I tell them to use BIG pots. One mom in a big pot will give you more clones then you can use!


Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
First... THEN ask for the other rooms!



Originally Posted by Bobby Smith
Let me see if I can find some good electrical pointers for you.

All right, you've certainly earned your stripes for all your input today (sent you a PM - you've got a ounce-sized blunt waiting for you if you're ever in my hood), but I *think* I've made my mind up on a couple of things:

1) Not getting another AC

- I run my lights at night, which means the AC only has to keep temps in the low 80s as they run.
- During the day (when the sun is really beating down), the AC only has to keep a 140sq/ft room (HEAVILY insulated) at 75F (with intake air of 70F) - if the AC can't do that, then fuck it.
- This AC runs off of 1100 watts to cool lights of 2400 watts - if I need more than half of my energy devoted to cooling, than the economics of growing start to lose their appeal to me.
- If it turns out the AC simply can't keep up (would ONLY be an issue for the summer), then I have options like only running 1200 or 1800 watts (or just not flowering during the summer).
- One of my concerns is actually about my AC not running enough during the other nine months to provide the dehumidification necessary for the room - have a 25 pint dehumidifier, but I'm not sure that'll be able to keep up without the 100 pint dehumidification of the AC helping it out.

2) Not doing anything with the electrical (save for moving that green light)

- 2400 watts should be more than enough for my needs once I get it dialed in - looking to easily average a pound a month, and if I can't get that with that wattage and the system I'm building, than I need a new hobby
- Electrical scares me and if I don't need to do it, I'm not messing with it.
- Whereas I'm not a noob who asks if running a 250HPS is gonna have the cops beating down my door because of my high electric bills, 4000+ watts (AC, fans, pumps, lights) start to make a pretty high bill for a 3BR house (which also has tons of big screen TVs, stereo systems, central air, etc.) - not trying to be outrageous about my power usage.

Thanks so much again for you help man - can't wait to get this shit rocking and rolling.

Yeah, unfortunately ANY smell is unacceptable to me, so I've gotta get that figured out first and foremost, but I'm confident that I can throw enough filters and ozone at it (assuming the room is fully sealed) that I'll be able to handle it.

So, back to my lunatic self.........have decided that I'm gonna make the octagon 6 levels and 84 sites, and light it with 3 600s - plenty of lighting power for the size, and I should be able to pull 3 pounds off of that fairly easily.

Also going to hedge my bets and run a 600 next to it over an E&F table (one of my 2x4 trays, *maybe* - see below) using the SCROG technique - don't wanna put all my eggs in the vertical basket, and in the winter when the AC won't be running that much, I can add another horizontal 600 and my other 2x4 tray (if I so desire).

Or should I use both of my 2x4 trays for the 600? Even though it comes out to EXACTLY 40 watts/sq foot (the trays are only 44", not 48"), the fact that it will be next to the octagon and receiving light from that as well should give me sufficient light for that setup, no?

EDIT: Integra and/or Boom, you could help me out here - even though the trays are 2x4, I could make the screen any size I wanted, right? So I could do a 3x4 screen over a 2x4 table with a 600 pretty easily, no?

If I use both 2x4 trays, then I'd get a linear light mover and run it as a 2x8 table (I think).

I know I'm fucking nuts guys...........somebody help me out here with some direction so I can get some sleep and stop playing around with configurations in my head.

Yeah, no mater what your try is, you want to build your screen to fit the footprint of your light. This can vary depending on your reflector, but with my 600w in the SuperSun II 3'x4' is perfect.

Sorry for the delay, everybody - got some interesting news a week ago - girlfriend is pregnant.

Anyhow, changed the ceiling spacing from 24OC to 16OC, and am heading to HD now to buy plywood and get the ceiling up and insulated.

Also gonna sell this piece of shit EZ Clone 120 - I've NEVER not gotten roots in three weeks from clones - I could root them in a fucking toilet and get better results.

Since running an EZ with a dedicated chiller seems to be more hassle and electrical consumption than it's worth, I'm just gonna try to recoup what I can off of Craigslist and stay with the tried and tested rockwool/rapid rooters/jiffy pellets in a humidity dome with heating pads.

It's a shame because I had high hopes for the EZ, but you've gotta know when to cut your losses - $350 for the EZ plus $350 for a chiller, or $5 for Jiffy Pellets with no moving parts.

Hopefully I can get ~$300 off of Craigslist, so I'll only lose $50 on this piece of shit.

Pretty easy call to sell it..............c'est la vie.

Congratulations dude, I hope the pregnancy goes well for you both.

As for cloning, I've had success is both aero cloning and using substrates, rockwool was my favourite. My most recent batch of clones were placed in 50/50 vermiculite/perlite in seed trays in a dome on a heat mat, misted daily with vent closed for the first 3 days and I had 100% success in 10 days at a fraction of the cost, and in a neutral media that is easily washed off roots if desired. I recommend you give it a try to see for yourself.

Good luck on the sale.. There's lots of suckers out there