Atheism

doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
morgentaler said:
Reasonable. That's the key word.

Since it has been reported that 40% of US citizens believe in item number 2, and hundreds of thousands at least believe in item number 1, does that mean I should respect their beliefs? Because they have numbers?

Should we created a table and mark the threshold at which we start respecting beliefs which are based on nothing?

How about:
1 million is a religion.
100,000 is a cult.
100 is a mass hallucination.
1 is mental illness.
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We are fundamentally flawed and perhaps a little too easily influenced. We should all respect one another because regardless of what you or anybody believes life is precious. I've been around long enough to have learned this. Whether a gift from a benevolent entity or freak accident life is precious and everybody matters. To you these beliefs may be based on nothing but my life experiences tell me otherwise. Many are indoctrinated and have blindly accepted what they've been told. If this molds their life in a positive way and they have respect for their fellow man then it's a good thing. Perhaps one day you will see things differently. No one can say for sure what the future holds, not even those psychic hotline goons.:-P
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
morgentaler said:
Perfect?
You mean this habitat that regularly snuffs out the inhabitants?
An evolutionary stable system will fall into equilibrium but when something pushes it out of equilibrium, whether it's a bad winter or a texas sized rock falling out of the sky, it's chaotic until it falls back into balance.
Earth didn't change for us, we changed for earth. And if something changes our environment too quickly for us to adapt, we'll be history too.




Just start a list of things you pray for, and see how many actually come true.
And look at the list rationally. If you pray to pass a test and you spend two weeks studying for it, it's not a huge leap to figure out that if you knew the answers to the questions and passed that it was your doing.

If you wrote: "The monkey sniffed it's finger" for all your answers and still passed, you can probably attribute that to prayer, or a teacher under the influence of powerful drugs.
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I can count on one hand the number of things I've prayed for and they've all come true or we wouldn't be having this deelightful conversation. I like your analogies. Things have happened to the earth in the past but here we sit......You said it yourself that it is easily put off balance but it does go back into balance. I don't recall me or anybody else here saying anything about it being a shangri-la. When one looks at it from a scientific point of view we see how connected everything is. How fucking ridiculous is it that we are here by accident? How fucking ridiculous is it that we're here by design? It's ridiculous to me no matter how you slice it. :weed:
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
doc111 said:
I can count on one hand the number of things I've prayed for and they've all come true or we wouldn't be having this deelightful conversation. I like your analogies. Things have happened to the earth in the past but here we sit......You said it yourself that it is easily put off balance but it does go back into balance. I don't recall me or anybody else here saying anything about it being a shangri-la. When one looks at it from a scientific point of view we see how connected everything is. How fucking ridiculous is it that we are here by accident? How fucking ridiculous is it that we're here by design. It's ridiculous to me no matter how you slice it. :weed:
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That's the problem... we are not here by accident or by design.

We are here as a result of natural processes that took place over 13 billion years. None of it is random. Random entails no direction. But I for one would call life a direction, and an acheivable goal, even for a non-conscious entity like our universe. But take it back even further, consider the evolutionary process - natural selection - on a universal level... Those universes with H and He that developed out of their own innitial "big bang" type events already set the course for life to arise. Those that don't, die out. Stars form, heavier elements form, stars explode and send those elements out into the universe to become you and me. All of it is connected, none of this process is random. It's the course reality as we've witnessed it takes. Claiming it's random is illogical until we witness other universes that don't apply the same rules to their own realities.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
That's the problem... we are not here by accident or by design.

We are here as a result of natural processes that took place over 13 billion years. None of it is random. Random entails no direction. But I for one would call life a direction, and an acheivable goal, even for a non-conscious entity like our universe. But take it back even further, consider the evolutionary process - natural selection - on a universal level... Those universes with H and He that developed out of their own innitial "big bang" type events already set the course for life to arise. Those that don't, die out. Stars form, heavier elements form, stars explode and send those elements out into the universe to become you and me. All of it is connected, none of this process is random. It's the course reality as we've witnessed it takes. Claiming it's random is illogical until we witness other universes that don't apply the same rules to their own realities.
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Who makes the laws of nature? You claim no one. So that pretty much makes this an accident in my book. If an explosion happened 15 billion or some odd years ago and we are here as a result and nothing was behind that explosion, as you claim, then how can our existence not be an accident? Let's take it one further and say that life is very common in the universe and we aren't just freaks of nature as it were, it means we are part of a larger design. Random or orderly? How can it be both?:bigjoint:
 
morgentaler

morgentaler

Well-Known Member
And ye shall peeketh behind the curtain and findeth the word.
And the word shall be:

int main void;
int universe rnd(256^∞);
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
We are fundamentally flawed and perhaps a little too easily influenced. We should all respect one another because regardless of what you or anybody believes life is precious. I've been around long enough to have learned this. Whether a gift from a benevolent entity or freak accident life is precious and everybody matters. To you these beliefs may be based on nothing but my life experiences tell me otherwise. Many are indoctrinated and have blindly accepted what they've been told. If this molds their life in a positive way and they have respect for their fellow man then it's a good thing. Perhaps one day you will see things differently. No one can say for sure what the future holds, not even those psychic hotline goons.:-P
Click to expand...
Exactly, lifes to precious.

Lets cut the bullshit,

start doing logical things!

Doc, please!!! pick up Richard Dawkins God Dellusion. You say some interesting stuff, he so well would carve your words and make you understand a few of these things, like the idea of someone being positvely effected by religion, why these are bad thing. The book is very basic and compact, easy read aswell.
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Who makes the laws of nature? You claim no one. So that pretty much makes this an accident in my book. If an explosion happened 15 billion or some odd years ago and we are here as a result and nothing was behind that explosion, as you claim, then how can our existence not be an accident? Let's take it one further and say that life is very common in the universe and we aren't just freaks of nature as it were, it means we are part of a larger design. Random or orderly? How can it be both?:bigjoint:
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C'mon lets not be like that, the maker of the laws of nature, even athiests are inclined to accept that they wont know what this is, but, got nothing to do with the idea of a " personal god " etc...
They dont give a shit, because they think theres more factual studies that can be done, things like evolutionary science etc... Rather than making bullshit stories about splitting seas and miracles and shit.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_dennett_s_response_to_rick_warren.html

watch that aswell

peace
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
Exactly, lifes to precious.

Lets cut the bullshit,

start doing logical things!

Doc, please!!! pick up Richard Dawkins God Dellusion. You say some interesting stuff, he so well would carve your words and make you understand a few of these things, like the idea of someone being positvely effected by religion, why these are bad thing. The book is very basic and compact, easy read aswell.
Click to expand...
Logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings. How nice would the world be if everyone behaved logically? We all agree that religion poisons the weak minded legions of the world but what about the silent majority? The religious folk who never bother or cause harm to anyone. Religion may be detrimental to some but so is government, and heroin, and trans-fat, and cigarettes, and alcohol..........You could take religion out of the equation and it wouldn't change humanity much. It may even make things worse. Who knows how many people refrain from murdering someone else because they are taught that it's morally wrong? I'm simplifying things but I think you get my point. :weed:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
C'mon lets not be like that, the maker of the laws of nature, even athiests are inclined to accept that they wont know what this is, but, got nothing to do with the idea of a " personal god " etc...
They dont give a shit, because they think theres more factual studies that can be done, things like evolutionary science etc... Rather than making bullshit stories about splitting seas and miracles and shit.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_dennett_s_response_to_rick_warren.html

watch that aswell

peace
Click to expand...
You keep talking to me as if I'm religious.:confused:

I don't know if any of that stuff happened or not............I wasn't around.;-)
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings. How nice would the world be if everyone behaved logically? We all agree that religion poisons the weak minded legions of the world but what about the silent majority? The religious folk who never bother or cause harm to anyone. Religion may be detrimental to some but so is government, and heroin, and trans-fat, and cigarettes, and alcohol..........You could take religion out of the equation and it wouldn't change humanity much. It may even make things worse. Who knows how many people refrain from murdering someone else because they are taught that it's morally wrong? I'm simplifying things but I think you get my point. :weed:
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No im sorry i really dont.
Logic, what is it? is that what you are talking about?
Is there any absolute morality? Is that what you are talking about.
Im sorry but you have just confused me.
Aswell, i think logic is there because of what seems illogical, rather than the illogical because of logic.
That talk kinda goes into it. I think i get what you are saying, we are running around the same point i think.
I just maybe think ur trying to be all wah wah wah im sitting on the fence lalala when i think really you may be just on one side...
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
You keep talking to me as if I'm religious.:confused:

I don't know if any of that stuff happened or not............I wasn't around.;-)
Click to expand...
I thought you were religious :/ or atleast not athiest, You said you dont know whether theres a personal god or not. No?? is that not what we are going on about, the idea some call " agnosticism "
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
The larger the supply of a commodity, the less its value.

There's no shortage of life on Earth. And that's fits the above axiom nicely.

Pretty words, but the reality is much more vicious. Life is abundant, and cheap.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
Exactly, lifes to precious.

Lets cut the bullshit,

start doing logical things!

Doc, please!!! pick up Richard Dawkins God Dellusion. You say some interesting stuff, he so well would carve your words and make you understand a few of these things, like the idea of someone being positvely effected by religion, why these are bad thing. The book is very basic and compact, easy read aswell.
Click to expand...
You said "start doing logical things" and I said "logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings" meaning, we humans are not logical creatures.

growwwww said:
No im sorry i really dont.
Logic, what is it? is that what you are talking about?
Is there any absolute morality? Is that what you are talking about.
Im sorry but you have just confused me.
Aswell, i think logic is there because of what seems illogical, rather than the illogical because of logic.
That talk kinda goes into it. I think i get what you are saying, we are running around the same point i think.
I just maybe think ur trying to be all wah wah wah im sitting on the fence lalala when i think really you may be just on one side...
Click to expand...
I admit I am on the fence. I don't know if go exists or not. Agnostic is the word I think. I don't believe this sort of thing can be proven one way or the other. That's the conundrum. Nobody really knows whether we have a creator or not. I feel personally that we were created by a supreme being which has yet to reveal itself to us. Perhaps it never will. Do I think that some rapture will happen and the believers will be taken to heaven while the damned remain here in torment? No. Do I believe much of the symbolism in the bible or other religious text? No. I stated before that I have my own personal reasons for believing what I believe. I'm not going to change your views and it's doubtful that you will change mine. Faith is a personal thing which doesn't have anything to do with logic. :weed:
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
You said "start doing logical things" and I said "logic breaks down quickly amongst illogical beings" meaning, we humans are not logical creatures.

I admit I am on the fence. I don't know if go exists or not. Agnostic is the word I think. I don't believe this sort of thing can be proven one way or the other. That's the conundrum. Nobody really knows whether we have a creator or not. I feel personally that we were created by a supreme being which has yet to reveal itself to us. Perhaps it never will. Do I think that some rapture will happen and the believers will be taken to heaven while the damned remain here in torment? No. Do I believe much of the symbolism in the bible or other religious text? No. I stated before that I have my own personal reasons for believing what I believe. I'm not going to change your views and it's doubtful that you will change mine. Faith is a personal thing which doesn't have anything to do with logic. :weed:
Click to expand...
Faith can suck my bollocks.

Peace
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
I thought you were religious :/ or atleast not athiest, You said you dont know whether theres a personal god or not. No?? is that not what we are going on about, the idea some call " agnosticism "
Click to expand...
I address this in the above post (I was typing my response before I saw this post). No I am not atheist, and no I am not religious. I guess that makes me agnostic. :bigjoint:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
Faith can suck my bollocks.

Peace
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See, this is what I'm talking about in regards to respect. Some of us have none yet we expect others to respect us. And what happened to the intelligent conversation we were having? "Suck my bollocks"? Really? :wall:
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
Respect, defiinition has to be clear, its something that is seen as different throughout. Im not hating nice people :-(
and i said faith can suck my bollocks. Not you or anyoneelse. Faith, and obiviously i didint mean literally, however this one girl i met whos name was faith...wehay having a laugh matey!!!!!
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
Respect, defiinition has to be clear, its something that is seen as different throughout. Im not hating nice people :-(
and i said faith can suck my bollocks. Not you or anyoneelse. Faith, and obiviously i didint mean literally, however this one girl i met whos name was faith...wehay having a laugh matey!!!!!
Click to expand...
I knew a Faith once. She was a stripper and believe me I had it in her! lol!:lol:
 
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