Atheism

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Wow we have action in the thread and drama unfolding on a few levels. Cool. tttt
Troll (Internet)

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"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]








It's hard not to fit that description in a flaming war type athiest thread or even tote and talk in general but hippie blathered so much so often making zero sense so maybe it seemed to fit more than all the rest of us.


I think Cracker is a republican... I know that's not what the argument is about, but historically republicans really hate hippes. Co-incidence? :)
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Wow we have action in the thread and drama unfolding on a few levels. Cool. tttt
Troll (Internet)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT redirect here. For the Wikimedia essay, see "What is a troll?".
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]








It's hard not to fit that description in a flaming war type athiest thread or even tote and talk in general but hippie blathered so much so often making zero sense so maybe it seemed to fit more than all the rest of us.
The Hippie is causing no trouble that I have seen. What is a weed forum without a far out Hippie?:weed:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.
And when did you start smoking weed? :lol:

Seriously, Paddy gives some good advice, but I'll throw in another possibility.

You said 14, which is a time of puberty and many hormonal/testosterone changes.

It's possible you need an adjustment. You may be out of balance. Today, that's easily adjusted.

Something to ponder.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I've been this way since I was like 14 (25 now) lol. I've tried to unisolate myself, but it all just seems pointless to me. maybe I need to see a doctor and get some anti depression meds lol. I dono. I'm not suicidal at all, I just don't care to do anything with my life.
That's chronic depression personified. Suicidal thoughts don't need to be involved at all and usually aren't.

If you smoke pot all the time, don't eat very balanced (extra balanced meals) to compensate, and force yourself to be active you may have just fallen into a habit which is pulling you down hormonally and therefore mentally, all the advice people gave leading to that conclusion is right.

Also, if you started smoking regularly that young and still do I hate to suggest it but it may be time to stop any drug, let your body level out and see where you are at. If you can, I guess it depends on if you need the pot medicinally or face worse problems physically or something.

You may have a very simple easily treatable thing like social anxiety disorder who knows, I'm sure if you try without drugs for a while you'll know but you would have to stay off long enough to get past the initial grumpyness etc. There will be real mental effects while your body adjusts, again, but they're very minor and easy to manage.

Weed isn't physically addictive, but mental addiction is just as strong a thing in some especially if you are using it to offset social anxiety or anything else in your past without even realizing it.

Anti depression meds are much much harder to get right for people than other things I think anyway and trying to find the right one and the right dose may be a whole lot easier without pot in the way than with. Also antidepressants should be a last resort, but if you've let it go this long it's probably past time to try whatever you're willing to try in the best order you can manage if you want to actually get anywhere different from where you've always been.

One trip to the right doctor and they can test your homone levels, thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, blood cell count, potassium levels and on and on and everything else that commonly does this type of thing.

Just my 2 cents anyway.
 

Imaulle

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
It's finding things to appreciate that make life worth living. Everyone faces this same problem at some time in their life, except it's the religious that replace the reality of existence because it's scary to think about with a cushy warm feeling they get at the pit of their stomach when they think they communicate with their imaginary friend.

Hold your head high, you embrace reality as it is, not as you want it to be.
thanks for this :hug:

@OregonMeds

I don't actually smoke weed lol. just grow it for a little extra money on the side... I've smoked it maybe 4 times in my entire life.

I did do ecstasy 5 times (one pill each time) over a 2 year period ending a year or so ago. but I took all the right precautions with taking a lot of vitamin C before and after. In the last year I've pretty much been drug free. I only drink maybe one night every 2 months. other then that I lead a pretty clean life ;\

I do live off of fast food and I'm constantly eating out, so I probably do need to change my diet up a bit...
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
It was just a joke originally, but there's one way you could find out if it could help. Since you can grow any strain you want, you could try some good up sativa that can get people up and doing things if used right or laughing at life a bit more maybe. No abuse problem means it can't hurt to try. I'd check everything else out but antidepressants first though. If your hormones or anything is as far off as it might be, just changing your diet often isn't enough to make up what's been lacking so long.

There are as many people using it as effective medicine to their benefit as there are abusing it to their detriment.
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
Ok thought so, I just wasn't sure if you thought you found meaning in the babble. She went full on troll though, cracker is just opinionated and bull headed like a few of us around here.

this existence was here forever before me, and will be here forever after me ≠ this existence, has no meaning

We Believe The First Half Of The Equation.
How Can A Secularist Believe In God?
Our Meaning Excites Us.
What Is Your Meaning?
What's Left When You're Vaporized?



This makes sense and for those of you where it does not...dig deeper---if possible.
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
I went to look for Babs's feedback after what padawan said earlier, and ran across this on her stats:

  • Points needed: 666
.....and the meaning and substance here is exactly what? :neutral:

Dear God, all of this "substance" has again overwhelmed me (rather bored me to tears) I'll read P's post later...much later.
Yours too CJ.......I just KNEW you couldn't ignore me. :bigjoint:
Bring on the substance babe!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL...not giving a single ounce of it even a read tonight.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Step 1:
1) History written ahead of time is proof of God. It also creates the foundation for true prohecy. Which must be viewed by evident historical records and fulfilment.

Are you taking the Old Testament litterally or not? I hold that no "prophecy" has ever been fulfilled. How are we to know the "prophecy" wasn't written after the event? How are we to know someone didn't simply write something down, call it a "prophecy", then future generations of people tried to fulfill said prophecy, so then they actively accomplished goals in line with fulfilling the "prophecy", and it "came true". I don't see anything significant in that course of events. Nothing miraculous at all.

Give me one example of a prophecy coming true in the Bible. (in as much detail as possible)


2) Anthropology Science (study of humanity and social cultures) confirms facts written in the history and manuscripts throughout time.

Which facts?


3) Regarding the Bible;
a) Ancient history supports the Bible's accuracy.

What ancient history?

b) The Gospels provide reliable accounts of Jesus as well as countless other documents of the day. There is actually more recorded proof of the life of Christ than that Julius Ceaser ever even exsisted.

Really common talking point I hear all the time. This is infact totally untrue. Show me some proof of Jesus' existence if there's such a vast amount to choose from.


c) Archaeology Science backs up Biblical accounts. They are being uncovered each and every year.

What archaeology science? Like the shroud of Turin? -carbon dated to the middle ages... first signs of life? - dated to 3.8 billion years old... first plants @ 700 million years old, first "bodies" @ 600 million years old... fish to land dwelling creature transition? - dated to 400-385 million years ago... first dinosaurs? - dated to 150 million years old... first mammals? - dated to 100 million years old... first homo sapiens? - dated to 100,000 years old... You sure all that lines up with "biblical accounts"?


d) Textual scholarship confirms the Bible.

...What textual scholarship?


e) The Bible is true to it's original form because:
.1)we have such a hugh number of MSS copies, over 24,000.

Irrelevant. Appeal to authority.


.2) these copies agree with each other 99.5%.

Irrelevant.


.3) The Bible's textual integrity is more certain than that of Plato's writtings and Homer's Illad.

Opinion.


f) History written ahead of time is proof the Bible is not a product of man.

Again with the "prophecies"... Was Nostradamus not a man? If the Bible is not a product of man, are you making the claim that it is the direct word of God? If that's the case, you must also hold that it is therefore perfect. Is this the case?


g) In contrast, the book of mormon: archaeology has repeatedly failed to substantiate the book's claims of cities, persons,names or places mentioned.

Agreed, Mormonism is just as diluted as all the other man-made religions.


h) From a historical and legal perpective, if enough eyewitnesses are alive when the the facts are published, it's can be fairly well established the vaidity of a secular event. (see 1 Cor 15.6)

ROFL! Uhh... no, actually it does not work that way. Science doesn't give a fuck how history or law works. Science has it's own rules, and it's own laws. I'm supposed to depend on a TWENTY CENTURY OLD GAME OF TELEPHONE?!? It's stuff like that why I think to believe something like that you must be retarded.


i) Anthropology Science (study of humanity and social cultures) confirms the Bible.

refer to 3c

Complexity, order and information point to the existence of God. The geological features we see today verify the claim that there was a world-wide flood. The fulfilled prophecies validate the claim that the Bible is the Word of God.

Holy cow! You're making the claim that there was a worldwide flood?! Oh man! K, where did all the water come from, and where did it go? The Bible says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. Is that how the water got there? Are you actually saying the story of Noah and the Arc is litterally true? That a 500 year old man build a 450' long ship, stocked it with two "kinds" of every animal, and survived the worldwide flood that God himself created to destroy all of mankind and animalkind?

An eternal God is the only plausible idea. If God is eternal, then He was not created. If God doesn't exist, you have a serious infinite regression problem.

Since you can't possibly show that something is "eternal" in any sense of the word, how do you expect me to believe it when you say "my God is eternal"? Explain that to me. You must believe, based on faith, that your God is eternal because the Bible says he is.

I don't have any problem, I'm not saying I know exactly how the universe got here or exactly where we're going or if we have any other place in existence other than here on earth. I'm along for the ride whether I like it or not, and I refuse to be blinded by meaningless illogical things that couldn't possibly exist in any rational kind of existence.


Think before claiming there is no proof. There are no valid arguments for the claim that atheism is true, so carefully consider your position. You can be an atheist if you wish, but you have to accept that position in spite of the lack of logic and evidence. That leaves you with no room to criticize beliefs that can be defended with logic and science.

There isn't one shred of tangible proof or evidence of any kind of the existence of any gods. Atheism isn't a belief, it's the rejection of a belief. You cannot honestly defend religion. You have to either choose to remain religious, or remain honest. The two are mutually exclusive.

So you are asking me to prove the God I believe (God of the Bible) without the Bible right? and not why I believe in God (as in general)?

Why not both? Prove God exists, the god you believe in, without the Bible, and tell me why you believe in it.

Okay according to the "Cosmological Argument", everything that has a beginning has a cause, and therefore created. Science has stated that Universe begun during the Big Bang and therefore it is created.

[youtube]EiQbSBAWtw0[/youtube]

Time, according to physics also has a beginning, therefore it must have cause, and therefore it is created. So basically we can say, God created these things. And therefore you'd like to conclude, then God must also have been created, right?

Dude...wtf? "So basically we can say, God created these things." <-- HUH?! You might be able to just go ahead and do that, and that's the problem. That's not how reality works.

But Science cannot prove that God has a beginning, just like you cannot prove God's existence. If you take this statement as invalid, then your statement that says God does not exist will also not be valid.
If you take my statement as maybe valid, then your side of the argument will also be maybe valid, but both of them cannot be true inclusive of each other, right?

Basically the argument being presented is; "science says time and space had a beginning, and everything inside time and space was created, and God is outside time and space, so that means he wasn't created and did not have a beginning, he is eternal - but science can't prove that either, so we're both equally as correct in saying God exists and God does not exist."...

-you can't measure anything outside of time/space, so it is illogical to claim anything exists outside of it

-even if you could, how would you then conclude that anything outside time/space must not have been created? Why? Couldn't it have been created, or been born or whatever elsewhere in some other universe perhaps? Why not? Only things that reside within our own universe are subject to "creation"? What the hell kind of ignorant ass position is that to hold??


Okay. According to the Mathematical Argument,

the chance of the Big Bang x the chance of the 4 dimensions as our dimensions x the chance of our Law of Physics being in place of infinite number of other kinds of Law of Physics x the chance of the Earth being a habitable planet x the chance of intelligent life on this particular planet = 1/1x10^infinity, which if calculated with the limits method will equal to 0.

Therefore, by Mathematics, there is no chance that all these things happens by chance.

...right, the Drake equation. I'm very familiar with it. Carl Sagan talks about this shit during Cosmos.

[youtube]MlikCebQSlY[/youtube]

Learn from the mothafucking master of knowledge himself.

All possibilities = all probabilities. Life is inevitable.


Everything has to be in the right conditions to be in working and functioning as it is right now. Therefore, by these two arguments and many others (Do you really want me to elaborate on that?), there must be an intelligent design, that is a god or gods.

Nope. I've already explained that there are natural explinations for everything you experience.


you must be a very sad person. God has shown himself to me several times in my life. when my 3 daughters were born, when my father past away, and when i went through a very ugly divorce. very clearly revealed, no mistaken it. i dont attend church anymore, but have always believed and had comunicatilon with him in the above instances.

simply amazing things took place in my life.

OK, it shouldn't be that hard to explain it to me then right? 3 times?! That's amazing! You must have remembered every detail, am I right? Why be so vague about it? Explain to me what happened at each of those instances, and why you believe it was God. I would really appreciate that.
 

Woodstock.Hippie

New Member
"I hold that no "prophecy" has ever been fulfilled."
You've reading to do outside of the Bible, young padawan.
Do Believe IT is possible for prophets to exist?

 

Woodstock.Hippie

New Member
Please then, provide an example of a non modern religious prophet you equate with Myth, Padawan.
We advise thinking carefully before responding, (I can think off hand of at least a half dozen reasons why I just wrote that)
perhaps pondering who else could possibly be capable of receiving Humansity's radiatemanations just exactly the same way IT is done on Earth.
We promise to stay out of the realm of belief, and remain solidly in the secular scientist world for this particular discussion.

 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Babs it's wonderful you chose what you chose.

Please note this is all real, I didn't make up the words I call attention to, or anything of the sort.

Please also keep in mind that only priests could look upon the bible or in fact any holy items, they had to be covered from the view of the general public. There is good reason, lets see why:




Passage results:
1 Corinthians 15 (Young's ***Literal*** Translation)

1And I make known to you, brethren, the good news that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood,
2through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain,
3for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive

:spew:
Not view, not saw, not witness same word used to describe those that only heard it.

:spew:


, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings:hump:

:spew:
(That's right folks, it says according to the writings originally, not anything else, not even pretending to be anything else.)
:spew:


4and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, ******according to the Writings,********:hump:

(yes it says according to the writings originally)


5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve,
6afterwards he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain till now, and certain also did fall asleep;
7afterwards he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
8And last of all -- as to the untimely birth -- he appeared also to me,

:hump: (yes he flat out admits and says "except for the whole untimely birth thing", that really sucks it was so untimely the dude wasn't around to see it he says) (If the birth was so untimely that it was important enough to write down a disclaimer you know it was really really untimely. So untimely he wasn't around when anyone who supposedly saw it were alive at all so scratch that idea nothing first hand at all left.)


:spew:



9for I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I did persecute the assembly of God,
10and by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace that [is] towards me came not in vain, but more abundantly than they all did I labour, yet not I, but the grace of God that [is] with me;
11whether, then, I or they, so we preach, and so ye did believe.


:spew:

(Yep those are the original words, not very firm on that, whoever said it or saw it or said they saw it we will preach it as the truth so you will believe it.)



12And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons?
13and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen;
14and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith,



:spew:
(We knew that.)
:spew:


15and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise;
16for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen,
17and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;
18then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish;
19if in this life we have hope in Christ only, of all men we are most to be pitied.:hump:


20And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
21for since through man:hump: [is] the death, also through man:hump:


:spew:
(not christ not god yes he said through man)
:spew:

[is] a rising again of the dead,


:spew:

(Lets repeat that again, shall we, through man is a rising of the dead)

:spew:
22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23and each in his proper order,

:spew:
(yes he specified the order of birth and death that is a correct prophecy but he also is saying it doesn't happen the other way around)
:spew:



a first-fruit Christ, :hump:

:spew:
(Yep it gets even better, not just one)
:spew:


afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

:spew:
(No not just a "second coming crist" a bunch of em, holy shit!)
:spew:


24then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
:spew:
(God loves whooping ass)
:spew:

26the last enemy is done away


:spew:
(I mean killing people, sorry, not just whooping ass.)
:spew:


-- death;
27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
28and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things,

(BOW BEFORE ME I AM MASTER OF YOU LIKE SLAVES)


that God may be the all in all.
29Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead?
30why also do we stand in peril every hour?
31Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord:
32if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise?
:spew:
(Tells priests to lie, so you won't be killed by the invaders, people won't die for stories. Your people will at some point have to die for you and you better make them believe it's for a damn good reason)
:spew:


let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die!

:spew:
(Tells priests lying works, see!)
:spew:
33Be not led astray; evil communications corrupt good manners;
34awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say [it].
35But some one will say, `How do the dead rise?
36unwise!

:spew:
(Tells priests to warn people that it's unwise to question the resurrection story)


thou -- what thou dost sow is not quickened except it may die;

:spew:
(Or you will be killed)
:spew:
37and that which thou dost sow, not the body that shall be dost thou sow, but bare grain, it may be of wheat, or of some one of the others,
38and God doth give to it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its proper body.
39All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds;
40and [there are] heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one [is] the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;
41one glory of sun, and another glory of moon, and another glory of stars, for star from star doth differ in glory.
42So also [is] the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
43it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;


:spew:
(Not just to lie, and how to lie, but when it's most important to really really sell the lie hard as if you didn't get it the first time.)
:spew:


44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
45so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit,
46but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual.
47The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy;:hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump:




the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven; :hump:


(Holy fuck the first wasnt and they say so!!!!!!!!)
48as [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly;
49and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;
51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:




:spew:
(They made it so everyone can be ressurrected, because you'll love that. Yes that's right ressurrected)
:spew:
53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;
55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
56and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
57and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ;
58so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.

:spew:
(Lets tell the priests who are the only ones allowed to view holy items including the bible uncovered to just keep it to ourselves that it's not true even though I just told you outright that it's not true or people won't put much effort into anything for you. Make them believe it really well though and they'll die for you.)



What's especially damning is what's left out in the version you are about to say you believe, after you say you don't believe this one. Just look for the omissions, I'll leave that work to you but you can guess many of them now I'm sure. I know you're also going to say it doesn't mean what I said here or there, ok, then just step back and take it in as a whole and completely forget about my interpretation and stick to the original words themselves.






 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
Can You Not Believe In Universe Man But Still Believe In Person Man?

This a very serious question.

If You don't understand, please ask a question rather than throwing stones.

I'm wearing leatherized rubber armor for those that can't see through my blouse.
Throwing stones is the only substance he ever has to offer :sleep:
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL.....Babs has Christmas shopping to do.
:::little time for all this substance:::
 
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