Advanced Lighting Spectrums for T5 Floro and LED

Fonzarelli

Active Member
View attachment 2274471

someebody explain this chart for me plz
I don't think it's the best made graph, but they are trying to show how much light is absorbed by the leaves, how much is reflected, and the wavelengths involved. The tan area is what is absorbed. Notice the >700 area that light is not absorbed very well. Also, notice the light that is reflected up on top in the green area. According to the chart, it seems as though most of the green light is absorbed and only some is reflected back?
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
Yeah, LOL, the first male plant I got out of my seed order was a Cali-O. Aggressive growing as fuck. Put out mad male flowers. I waited till about 30 of the pollen sacs were totally open and dropping and got carried away, took the whole plant upside down and shook it over the top of the Sour-D that was half-way into flower. I knew I was going to regret it later.

LOL. Anyway, the whole room got pollenated. Lavender, bubblegum, regular Cali-O(which I now have pure). I got about 1000 pure Cali-O seeds. That strain was a pain in the ass. It's really a nute hog. I'm not used to feeding that heavy so she got really yellow and didn't finish well. I ended up harvesting her early. Definitely needed a larger pot and more nutes. Also a taller area. I'm sure One could get some huge buds of of the Orange, but I just was going after the seeds at that point anyway.

I don't know what to do with all the seeds now. There is no way I will be able to use them all in time. Is there a way to store seeds so that they last a super long time, like 20 years?
according to djshorts, blue (cobalt) glass may be worth looking into
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
I know how that shit goes. I really hate them. Hit the leaves twice with monterey and flush the soil out with 1/2 a mosquito dunk mixed into 5 gallons of water. That will take care of the larvae in the soil so I've been told. Mine are on the way.

I spray all my shit down with GoGnats twice. The first time with a 1/8 tsp to 8 oz of H2O. Then the next day 1/4 tsp to 8 oz H2O. The plants HATE the cedar oil in the GoGnats. A lot of leaves will fall off later on because it fucks the plants up for a short time. That's why I bought the monterey stuff. Never used it yet. Anyone know about the mosquito dunks and if they work/harmful to the plants?
dunks are bacillis thuringensis v. israel (sp?) good vs. fungus gnats. u want spinosad & neem/extract... I actually mix neem oil & azamax to get the extra goodies in the crude oil. repeat spin every 3 weeks sorry to repeat me PM info just figrd others would benefit
(azamax/neem soil drench, spinosad foliar)

dunks may do more broken up as a top dressing, again vs. fungus gnats that is. they are manufactured to be an appealing feeding site for the sanguivore larvae which die to the bacteria after ingestion, so not knowing if the B. t. i. will readiy colonize the soil, just hedge bets and crush the plug and mix in top 2" of soil
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's the best made graph, but they are trying to show how much light is absorbed by the leaves, how much is reflected, and the wavelengths involved. The tan area is what is absorbed. Notice the >700 area that light is not absorbed very well. Also, notice the light that is reflected up on top in the green area. According to the chart, it seems as though most of the green light is absorbed and only some is reflected back?
from what im seeing certain levels of intensity must be achieved before a plant can use certain wavelengths it also goes to show looking to the far right that any NM past 700 needs to be with in a very specific range to be absorbed that is what i was most interested in but now that you make that point.... green absorption should be much more restricted than what it is showing unless we are missing something about intensity.

so back to right end of the graph how does this play into things well i sat here and though about it for a minute put 3 and 3 together and this is what i can come up with.

anything over 700nm (according to the chart) for the most part, is useless. but this does make sense and could be why we see issue using far red lights, as ive read else where, about hormones a plant creates in reaction far red ranges of light, that make it flower. in nature, while the days are long few plants revert to veg stage mid summer it happens but not too often as to be a problem. what this means to me there are only 2x during a day where this "precise" far red requirements are met morning and evining with this said this goes to show the photosynthetic/hormone response to "wake up" and "go to sleep".

this being said according to this reaction maintaining a perfect wake up spectrum increase flowering potential?

also still confused about the green spectrum too fonze.
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
I'm not doubting you. This is where I found the info on the dunks;

http://www.medicalmarijuanami.com/how-to-organically-control-thrips.htm

Mix up your Mosquito Dunks and water your plants with them. Mosquito Dunks have organisms in them that kill Thrip larvae when they are at the soil stage. They live in the soil for a certain duration.

Ill look it over but ill give ya this, I've been doing organic food farming for over a decade, and if BT v. i was good for thrips it would be widely reported b/c it is a wide distribution pest and a heavily used/marketed bacterial larvicide. I use dunks as a preventative for gnats and still picked up thrips in a clone (dude denied having them then called a week later asking for a solution for his thrip problem) and spinosad/max once and two followup 'sad apps, done deal. had gotten to 6 others by then too. Granted I nuked the clones, who knows what else they had.
 

mipainpatient

Active Member
View attachment 2274471

someebody explain this chart for me plz



green spectrum reflects deepest into the leaf, less absorption and secondary quenching, more passing to other chloroplasts, leaves via chlorophyl fluorescence spectrum (and mainly as the most reflected light in the canopy) Hey, what color is burning Na (sodium) btw?
that help?

I assume the graph intends to express fluorescence as transmittance.

save ya some clicks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll_fluorescence

I would assume this helps explain the pink parts of the graph, or at least in the transmission sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-photochemical_quenching

the reflection is kinda a no brainer, esp considering what goes on at higher nms (heat baby)
 

nuskool89

Well-Known Member
Hyroot, Fonzarelli, and polyarcturus I have followed your t5 posts in the professors thread and this one a bit and would like an opinion on a bulb combo I'll be using in my perpetual cab. I've got a 2 foot 8 bulb and am planning on 4 flora suns 2 uvl454, 2 uvl 660. Feel free to chime in if a better combo would work. Keep in mind I will not be changing the bulbs out per veg/flower
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Hyroot, Fonzarelli, and polyarcturus I have followed your t5 posts in the professors thread and this one a bit and would like an opinion on a bulb combo I'll be using in my perpetual cab. I've got a 2 foot 8 bulb and am planning on 4 flora suns 2 uvl454, 2 uvl 660. Feel free to chime in if a better combo would work. Keep in mind I will not be changing the bulbs out per veg/flower
Hmmm, if ya got a Sativa strain that you are budding I would say ya got a good spectrum, but if it's Indica then I would scratch the 2 UVL454's and go 4 FloraSuns and 4 UVL 660nm.

Should be tight! Let us know how it goes! Shoot some photos!
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Dunks dont work. I tried them several times. pure spray green and organocide and diatomaceous earth and best of all compost. Those are the only things that work for pests aside fro? Preadator bugs. Preadotory mites, ladybugs. Praying mantis all work really well. People say nemetodes work, but they didnt for me.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
That medical mj site said to use the dunks for the larvae in the soil. Then spinosad for the leaves. So I don't know why they would say it works if it doesn't. Then again, if it works for the larvae, why wouldn't be effective for the thrips as well? Anyway, I'm gonna give it a try still since I ordered them. Can't hurt any.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
green spectrum reflects deepest into the leaf, less absorption and secondary quenching, more passing to other chloroplasts, leaves via chlorophyl fluorescence spectrum (and mainly as the most reflected light in the canopy) Hey, what color is burning Na (sodium) btw?
that help?

I assume the graph intends to express fluorescence as transmittance.

save ya some clicks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll_fluorescence

I would assume this helps explain the pink parts of the graph, or at least in the transmission sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-photochemical_quenching

the reflection is kinda a no brainer, esp considering what goes on at higher nms (heat baby)
i hope we all didnt miss this with the mosquito dunk talk(sorry fonz) but these link are definitely worth having a look at they explain green light usage in plants and surprisingly it is much much higher than we had though.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
from what im seeing certain levels of intensity must be achieved before a plant can use certain wavelengths it also goes to show looking to the far right that any NM past 700 needs to be with in a very specific range to be absorbed that is what i was most interested in but now that you make that point.... green absorption should be much more restricted than what it is showing unless we are missing something about intensity.

so back to right end of the graph how does this play into things well i sat here and though about it for a minute put 3 and 3 together and this is what i can come up with.

anything over 700nm (according to the chart) for the most part, is useless. but this does make sense and could be why we see issue using far red lights, as ive read else where, about hormones a plant creates in reaction far red ranges of light, that make it flower. in nature, while the days are long few plants revert to veg stage mid summer it happens but not too often as to be a problem. what this means to me there are only 2x during a day where this "precise" far red requirements are met morning and evining with this said this goes to show the photosynthetic/hormone response to "wake up" and "go to sleep".

this being said according to this reaction maintaining a perfect wake up spectrum increase flowering potential?

also still confused about the green spectrum too fonze.
Light absorption pretty much drops off after 700nm. However, at 730-740nm the light forces Pf back to Pfr quickly in plants mimicking a full night of darkness. This allows for faster growth, shorter night cycle which I still have yet to see, and overall a savings in electricity $$. Typically it takes time for the Pf to revert back to Pfr naturally in the plant. The 730nm wavelength speeds this process up.

730nm also works together with 630nm to bring the phytochrome equilibrium balance back closer to "sunlight levels." What this means is in a high radiance(bright) deep red/blue spectrum 630nm and 730nm help to "naturelize" the spectrum. I don't know the exact scientific terms, but what I think it means is that it's pretty unnatural to use only red and blue to grow with. These other spectrums help to make the light more natural and easier for the plants to use.

If someone else can put this into english better please go for it. The heat has gotten to my head and I can't even think straight anymore.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
i think i kinda get what you saying ill come back to it got to roll out myslef. yeah the heat here is killer too got a massive headache starting.
 

nuskool89

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the fast response guys I run hybrids so I guess I'll have to play with it a bit. Either way I have to wait for uvl to put out 2 footer 660's :(

I do stick to more indica dominant though so maybe just a fs/660 split? The aqua sun is a 430ishpeak right? Why that over the higher blue? Or is it the fact aqua sun has a broader spectrum?
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
Thanks for the fast response guys I run hybrids so I guess I'll have to play with it a bit. Either way I have to wait for uvl to put out 2 footer 660's :(

I do stick to more indica dominant though so maybe just a fs/660 split? The aqua sun is a 430ishpeak right? Why that over the higher blue? Or is it the fact aqua sun has a broader spectrum?
FS/660 50/50. Since they don't have 660nm in 2ft length yet you could try using redsuns instead. I haven't tried that spectrum yet, but it may work. The thing is, Indica's won't finish under a blue heavy spectrum. You should have seen my last Indica buds that were grown under a blue heavy spectrum. They never finished. Veg growth was really nice, flower set was really nice, but they never filled out. The calyx's never filled up. They were 1/3rd the size.

My Sativa's finished real nice under a blue heavy spectrum. Here's the deal. If your spectrum appears blue to your eyes, it's a blue heavy spectrum. If it appears red to your eyes, you have a red heavy spectrum. You want more red than blue for Indica's. Try it, you will see.
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
i hope we all didnt miss this with the mosquito dunk talk(sorry fonz) but these link are definitely worth having a look at they explain green light usage in plants and surprisingly it is much much higher than we had though.
Could you point out where in these links it talks about green light usage in plants? I'm not seeing it. According to my other source, in low light conditions, red/blue spectrums are going to be more useful. In high light conditions, (I would guess 150w and higher, green light is more readily absorbed). From all of the info I have gathered, you want to have the whole spectrum in the presence of higher luminescence. like that rhyme? hehe
 

mrcourios

Member
My Sativa's finished real nice under a blue heavy spectrum. Here's the deal. If your spectrum appears blue to your eyes, it's a blue heavy spectrum. If it appears red to your eyes, you have a red heavy spectrum. You want more red than blue for Indica's.
I'm running the 4 flora suns ,2 aqua suns and 2 coral waves. I thought I might be to heavy on the blue side at first but looking at how it lights the room, it'a almost looks neutral. The flora suns are red heavy and with the greens and yellows from the aqua suns and flora suns it seems more balanced to my eye than I thought.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
Could you point out where in these links it talks about green light usage in plants? I'm not seeing it. According to my other source, in low light conditions, red/blue spectrums are going to be more useful. In high light conditions, (I would guess 150w and higher, green light is more readily absorbed). From all of the info I have gathered, you want to have the whole spectrum in the presence of higher luminescence. like that rhyme? hehe
right! thats what those 2 pages basically taughtme in higher luminescence green and yellow light become more photosynthetically active. another thing it pointed it (in florescence one) it went on to say (paragraph 3 i believe) that non photosynthetic light is absorbed and floureced back out at a longer wavelength.
 
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