Lets debunk AN and other companies products with FACTS.

[Jbone77]

Both HF and OF are "charged" being amended with quick availability of a small amount of Nitrogen and a few micros. That's why you don't need to fertilize right off the bat (I find you do with happy frog which is a reason I prefer it). Humus is broken down inert matter. That's the majority of the bag.

Humus is classified as matter that has broken down to the point that it no longer breaks down. So its considered inert, offering little to nothing in the form of nutrients. Wiki has a good definition that might make It a bit more clear.

Oh, its me ,il drop it. Dunno what I was thinkin .

 

[mk503]

Doesnt it get kinda expensive buying those bags of fox farms? I used fox farms ocean forest and that was pretty expensive......

 

[TonightYou]

Nah I pay $10 for a bag and buy a huge fuckin bag of perlite. for my grow, it last about 15 3 gallon plants or more.

When you think about it all mediums have a cost to them.

 

[Imaulle]

think of AN like Apple. My friend went in to an Apple store to get his graphic card replaced because his desktop was just all fucked up. They charged him $600 for a brand new GTX 460. Right now you can go to newegg and buy the exact same GTX 460 graphics card for about $80. They can do this and get away with it because they are dealing with morons. If you buy from AN, I'm sorry but you are a fucking moron.

After my friend told me this, I looked around my house and actually found an old GTX 460 that I no longer used. I gave it to him and he replaced it with the one Apple charged him $600 for and he went back and got a refund from those fucking crooks. Use your heads people...

 

[lilroach]

Doesnt it get kinda expensive buying those bags of fox farms? I used fox farms ocean forest and that was pretty expensive......

I guess it's all relative....I think I get close to 3 five-gallon buckets filled with a $16 back of OF.....figure $5 a bucket....considering a seed runs $10 with shipping, electricity runs around $30 a month, nutes.....well....it's whatever you pay.....five bucks really isn't worth skimping on......and save a buck or two. I suppose if I had 20 plants going at once....wait....I think I do....anyway...40 plants at once, how much soil cost may be a bigger deal.

 

[burgertime2010]

Pretend money was not a factor. What are the best nutrients available in terms of yield? Why are they the best? I mean, the "because I say so" model only goes so far with random strangers on the internet. What additives? In an ideal setup how would you go?

 

[mk503]

Nah I pay $10 for a bag and buy a huge fuckin bag of perlite. for my grow, it last about 15 3 gallon plants or more.

When you think about it all mediums have a cost to them.

Yeah but your medium cost more than mine. I reuse my coco and buy in bulk locally. And maybe $30 on nutes, thats for all year into the next............just saying. I understand AN is more pricey than some companys but it does work. You just decide to go with fox farms which has nutes in their bag of soil. So youre pretty much growing in perlite? $10 bag of fox farms soil is cheap, i wish i could find those prices... Cheapest i can find locally is $18

 

[mk503]

And thats only a 12 qt bag.....

 

[TonightYou]

That's expensive and no, I use happy frog which had practically nothing in it.
Additives are a bit of guano, earthworm casting, that's about it. Certainly not enough to support the plant and I start Jacks after the clone roots or a seedling gets it's first set of leaves.
I've used Ocean Forest before. I didn't like the drainage and it burned early seedlings. Why have an extra bag of stuff?

 

[TonightYou]

Pretend money was not a factor. What are the best nutrients available in terms of yield? Why are they the best? I mean, the "because I say so" model only goes so far with random strangers on the internet. What additives? In an ideal setup how would you go?

No additives, what I'm running now. I see other products that could work, I'd probably branch into some of the other Jack lines as there are some suitable contenders. That or have them make a custom blends to try out. If money were no object I'd be doing it organic, outside like my pepper plants and heirloom tomatoes grow. Compost bin, tilling the soil.

This isn't a because I said so. its based on what's in the tub or bottle.
I will say I run silica here and there and use a bit of molasses but I don't think neither are necessary. Just notice stronger stems with clones or seedlings given silica v. not. Just an observation, haven't found anything conclusive for it, shit, haven't had the time to look.

 

[yesismoke]

Jungle juice coco bloom$ 17$ bucks a and b working fine solo for twenty two dollars got bud candy ,overdrive, nirvana,,and sensieyeme. 250 ml of each cocotek 10 done.no worries just grow, got ne tars for the gods too sample pack. I just ph ec then feed it works for me, im sorry it doesnt for you or you found a cheaper brand. When i strarted growing outdoors i would use miracle grow cause it worked huge buds trees 7 ft to 10 ftz, but now am trying something different. Also i found a bag of 25 pounds of 10 -52-10 foliar and drench for twenty five us dollars which is the best for me . Everything you can get a decent crop should work. Advanced works but so does miracle grow so fo be fair which suckz but true.nectar for the gods is good too cheap to expensive choose which is what i do. General hydoponics is good

 

[Imaulle]

Pretend money was not a factor. What are the best nutrients available in terms of yield? Why are they the best? I mean, the "because I say so" model only goes so far with random strangers on the internet. What additives? In an ideal setup how would you go?

If I could have anything delivered to me free of charge for the rest of my life, I'd still go with Dyna-Gro or Jacks

 

[TonightYou]

Jungle juice coco bloom$ 17$ bucks a and b working fine solo for twenty two dollars got bud candy ,overdrive, nirvana,,and sensieyeme. 250 ml of each cocotek 10 done.no worries just grow, got ne tars for the gods too sample pack. I just ph ec then feed it works for me, im sorry it doesnt for you or you found a cheaper brand. When i strarted growing outdoors i would use miracle grow cause it worked huge buds trees 7 ft to 10 ftz, but now am trying something different. Also i found a bag of 25 pounds of 10 -52-10 foliar and drench for twenty five us dollars which is the best for me . Everything you can get a decent crop should work. Advanced works but so does miracle grow so fo be fair which suckz but true.nectar for the gods is good too cheap to expensive choose which is what i do. General hydoponics is good

As I've demonstrated, AN doesn't work. Its missing vital aspects in its base formula causing more botltles and more chances for mistakes. In fact Miracle Grow is more complete as a fertilizer.

Cost is one important factor but even more important is having a complete, standardized fertilizer.

 

[Jbone77]

Both HF and OF are "charged" being amended with quick availability of a small amount of Nitrogen and a few micros. That's why you don't need to fertilize right off the bat (I find you do with happy frog which is a reason I prefer it). Humus is broken down inert matter. That's the majority of the bag.

That's expensive and no, I use happy frog which had practically nothing in it.
Additives are a bit of guano, earthworm casting, that's about it. Certainly not enough to support the plant and I start Jacks after the clone roots or a seedling gets it's first set of leaves.
I've used Ocean Forest before. I didn't like the drainage and it burned early seedlings. Why have an extra bag of stuff?

Its quite a stretch to say it has nearly no nutes to it will burn a seedling in the same sentence. Im 100% sure its not all the inert medium that burns the seedling and it is the amount of nutrients in the bag. I have never seen Fox farm dirt for that price, double it maybe

 

[PetFlora]

Dirt minimizes individual control, and indoors it is messy. Further, getting the right balance so that the 'dirt' does not stay moist too long is not easy. Then what about the fact that young plants need much less nutrient than mature plants, or that budding plants need much more nutrient... basically, what seems simple, is in fact complicated WHEN/IF you want to control the elements, which is the way to go IF you know what you're doing. Enter Hydroponics

I concocted my rock medium to be fast draining, yet hold enough moisture between feedings to prevent wilt.

Also, water quality is an essential component that I want to control, and not just purity, but energetically

If I was growing for profit I probably would consider making my own, BUT, Hydroponic-Research makes a one part dry formula that works well (grower controls concentration at each stage), AND, they will mix for you...

If interested, come by my thread and ask any questions there

yep , spend a bunch on dirty n ur good. I mean if ya spend $300 on dirt ur doin good right ? Nutes are just dumb, i mean why buy nutes when you can drop a few hun buyin good dirt n then ur not buyin snake oil ur just buyin dirt. Yeah that was all sarcasm

 

[TonightYou]

as I said, Happy Frog had very little of nutritional value. Ocean Forest has a different composition. ocean farm has humus, peat moss and sandy loam. Fundamentally it is lacking nutrients, but the amendments bring a charge which usually gets you through a 5 week veg before the need to fertilize. The medium base differed in adding sandy loan for drainage and air exchange. peat moss retains moisture retention.
it's the additives such as the amount of earth worm castings, guano, and crab parts.

 

[Jbone77]

Both HF and OF are "charged" being amended with quick availability of a small amount of Nitrogen and a few micros. That's why you don't need to fertilize right off the bat (I find you do with happy frog which is a reason I prefer it). Humus is broken down inert matter. That's the majority of the bag.

as I said, Happy Frog had very little of nutritional value. Ocean Forest has a different composition. ocean farm has humus, peat moss and sandy loam. Fundamentally it is lacking nutrients, but the amendments bring a charge which usually gets you through a 5 week veg before the need to fertilize. The medium base differed in adding sandy loan for drainage and air exchange. peat moss retains moisture retention.
it's the additives such as the amount of earth worm castings, guano, and crab parts.

Hate to be the guy to burst this bubble but a medium that can support a plant for 5 weeks isnt inert and has to be accounted for in ur nuterient expense. Saying things like its virtually inert, it could burn a seedling, it supports a plant for 5 weeks, that stuff is all silly, buying/building a soil to save money on nutes is a contradiction. My medium is reuseable and inert, urs isnt, if it will support a plant for 5 weeks it is far from "lacking nutes"

 

[TonightYou]

hFirst off, it's soil less, it may look like dirt, but it is not. I provide via fertilizer everything that plant needs in the medium. My style is closer to hydro than soil.

Soil less actually gives more control, not less. I run multiple strains at once. Some strains are heavier feeders than others, I can individualize a feeding schedule for each plant.

When it comes to drainage, it's trial and error. I found happy frog at a 60/40 split with perlite works perfect for me. Quick drainage, great air exchange, and I can easily know when and how much water to provide.

most people have quality water in the United states. Unless you are using a well, most city water is perfectly fine to use. Get a water quality test done if you hand doubts. I find many people find something to blame when another variable (usualy their own mistakes, shit just look at some of these posts for help). That's not to say some people's water is fucked up. I just know local growers who blame their water when they should be blaming the massive fertilizer dump with the constant additives. So instesd of learning, they waste money in RO water. Some people...

 

[Jbone77]

Both HF and OF are "charged" being amended with quick availability of a small amount of Nitrogen and a few micros. That's why you don't need to fertilize right off the bat (I find you do with happy frog which is a reason I prefer it). Humus is broken down inert matter. That's the majority of the bag.

hFirst off, it's soil less, it may look like dirt, but it is not. I provide via fertilizer everything that plant needs in the medium. My style is closer to hydro than soil.

Soil less actually gives more control, not less. I run multiple strains at once. Some strains are heavier feeders than others, I can individualize a feeding schedule for each plant.

When it comes to drainage, it's trial and error. I found happy frog at a 60/40 split with perlite works perfect for me. Quick drainage, great air exchange, and I can easily know when and how much water to provide.

most people have quality water in the United states. Unless you are using a well, most city water is perfectly fine to use. Get a water quality test done if you hand doubts. I find many people find something to blame when another variable (usualy their own mistakes, shit just look at some of these posts for help). That's not to say some people's water is fucked up. I just know local growers who blame their water when they should be blaming the massive fertilizer dump with the constant additives. So instesd of learning, they waste money in RO water. Some people...

yep, some people, blaming ur water is almost as silly as saying a "soilless" medium that will burn a seedling and can support a plant for "5 weeks" isnt LOADED with nutes, ur grow medium is part of ur nute line, they work together, if its reuseable its easy to add up

 

[TonightYou]

Dude not sure whats with the hostility. I said Ocean Forest has a much greater nute charge than Happy Frog, which is why I use it as I don't want the nutrient charge. I want control.

Earthworm casting, crab parts, and guano are the additives to give some nitrogen, some phosphorus and a bit of potassium with a tad bit of the secondary. These are mixed into the inert peat moss, humus and loam.

I could easily buy humus by the bag and make my own happy frog.